General feeling on using Progressive Suspension 412s

I've researched this shock issue until I'm crosseyed. I'm just a burned out dirt bike racer with only about 10k miles of street experience, riding since 1971, and racing since 1972.



I raced flat track, TT, (Ascot up until 1992) desert, enduros, and a lot of MX. Just under 250 races under my belt all in all.



HOWEVER I've only owned 5 streetbikes so far. 1978 Yamaha TT500. 1984 HD Sportster set up a-la XR1000. A 1985 HD FXRS. And a 1987 Yamaha Fazer.



I now own a 1984 Honda Magna V45 set up for scaring the old folks and running a few Harleys into the ground around here.





I recently bought my wife (aka "Abeja" here in the forum) a 1982 Yamaha XJ650J Maxim. Her first highway capable bike.



Long way to go on both bikes just yet ...



Ok .. whew .. having said allll of that crap, I'd like to hear some opinions of Progressive's 412s. I'm not Valentino Rossi, but I do like to get jiggy wiff it through the hills around here. Both my Magna and Abeja's 650 are shaft bikes, so with those limitations we aren't going to be winning any AHRMA races with these bikes. I've thouroghly checked out Racetech, and Works Performance .. but to be honest I don't see the need for floating piston shocks on these two bikes at all.

Both of our bikes call for the same shock body from Progressive ... the 12-1201. Even though the PSI shocks are non-rebuildable (their welded ones anyhow) at less than $130 per pair they cost less than rebuilding a set of WP of RT shocks.

So are there any big *red flags* on the PSI shocks? I'm not as experienced on streetbikes as most other folks, so I don't really know the buzz about PSI other than they use the old Gabriel car shock equipment to make their shocks. Essentially PSI's welded shock bodies are car technology from the 1970s. But hey .. if it works .. who cares?

So I'm ignorant but teachable.

Thanks!

Holeshot ...

 

I'm running the "plain" PS 12-series on both of my (admittedly lighter) Seca 550s, and they're a marked improvement over the stockers.

They passed my cost-benefit analysis.

 

I believe the 412s have a high-pressure nitrogen bladder inside the body; the "plain" 12-series do not (I also have a set of the 12s). One thing I would recommend would be the heavier-duty springs for any shock you choose as the OEM rates were for real skinny Jap riders, not us big 'Mericans (with gear and luggage and sometimes 2-up).
You can go to the PS literature site and download their catalog, installation instructions and application chart.
Edit: Just double-checked mine and they have the nitrogen pressurization too so I'm not sure what the difference is between the 412 and the 12.

 

Alloy vs. steel bodies, the 412s come with springs and shiny metal trim bits? I think that's it; not 100% sure.

 

I only just got off the phone with Bryce there at PSI.

Nope .. not aluminum bodies .. you don't get aluminum bodies until you hit the $400 mark .. at least!

The 12 and 412 are not the same. All Bryce would say (after some serious pressuring) is that the 412 is valved "differently" than the 12. He said over and over that the 412 is somehow superior to the 12 but would not elaborate. I specifically asked if it was something like floating pistons (nope) or their IAS valving (nope) or a different pressurization scheme (nope) or differentbody design (nope). It's not even something that is displayed on the tech sheets or "what's inside" pages of their products. It's magic! No, seriously I think it's just some goofball reaon to keep folks from buying 12s and building up their own shocks. That said, I wonder exactly WHAT purpose the 12s serve, after the telecon with Bryce??

All he kept saying was that the 12 boy was inferior to the 412 body. His big defense on that was if the shock body failed they wanted the ENTIRE thing (the whole shock assembly/spring and all, not just the body itself) back to be able to evaluate it. They don't really want to be dealing with folks that take their own springs apart and such (especially in the warranty area of life). So, they really want you to buy the proper 412.

And no, they won't sell you just the bodies for the 412 to have as spares laying about like I wanted. Again, because they don't want customers "at this level" tearing down the shocks.

I understand. I don't like it, but I understand.

So I guess my questions still stand .. anyone know of any reason why I shouldn't use PSI shocks?

Thanks!

 

I'm 50 years old, American Indian/whitey, flat-tracker build (5'6" buck fifty). So I guess I'm one of them little skinny Jap riders (or better said ... little skinny Jap bike rider .. HA!). The bikes are dedicated solo seaters. No big 'Mericans on these two! (but I am exmilitary and excop from southest Los Angeles .. haahaahaa!!!).

My humor sucks. Sorry.

What a Contrarion .. hmm?

Holeshot ..

 

The 412's and the 12's are basically identical, both in performance and in price (with the 12's, you have to order the shock bodies separate from the springs, and the costs of the two together is about the same as the price of the 412's).

The 12's have fully exposed springs, so that they appear a bit closer to the "stock" shock look (for XJ550 and most XJ650 models), whereas the 412's have the upper and lower chrome spring "skirts" or caps, giving them a more modern look.

 

I understand that ... however ... Bryce was INSISTANT that they are different in their "valving". But I smell something else going on.

Calling them again .. trying a different sales rep this time .....

 

If you go here and hover over the first little picture on the bottom, it shows the 12's construction...

http://www.progressivesuspension.com/me ... index.html

If you go and download their catalog and scroll down to the 412 section, it shows THE SAME BREAKDOWN as the 12 shows in the little picture on the 12 page.

Same double tube construction. Same pressurization scheme (outer tube). Same hydraulic top out. Same same. Just sayin'. Can't speak of the actual valving setup. Hmm .. this stinks.