Hard starting XJ

I'm new to the site and I suspect this has been aswered before, but in case it hasn't, here goes. I've got a 1982 XJ650 that I bought from a car lot a couple years ago. It didn't run when I got it, and had sat for a long time. I suspect someone stationed at Fort Knox, KY owned it, since it has a parking sticker from there on the front fork. Someone tried to do something to the carbs and buggered it all up, so I ended up getting new carbs online and having them installed (but not by a bike specialist). It has always been a bear to start, turns over just fine, but will take at least five minutes of trying before it finally catches. I let it warm up for several more minutes before I take off, but even then it's sluggish for about the first mile, and then does OK after that. Gas is not old. I've tried Sea Foam, which doesn't seem to help. That's the summer. In the winter, it takes even longer, and often will run the battery down before it starts.

I suspect it needs the carbs cleaned, something that I don't really want to tackle, but the local shop will do for about $300. I'm debating on whether I should do that, or sell it and get something else. That same shop has a 2000 Suzuki Intruder 1400 for sale, which I might go for, but I have some sentimental attachement to the XJ. I call it my Mad Max bike; not the prettiest thing on the road.

Taking a long way to ask the question, but does it sound like the carbs to you guys in the know? What could I expect if I get off the wallet and get the carbs cleaned? Will it solve all these problems? Or are XJ's just notoriously slow starting bikes, and what I have is what I can expect forever?

 

First good thing, the bike runs.

This is a 32 year old machine that will need attention to make it run correctly and be a safe ride.

Not trying to scare you off, but reality is reality. Think of it like going up in a 32 year old plane that hasn't been serviced in a long time.

Your problem are the carbs more than likely and a good cleaning would probably be the cure to some of the starting issues. There is the valve clearances to be put in spec, then a vacuum sync of the carbs.....and a few other things. Really is somewhat not difficult to do the carbs yourself, and it would be a heck of a lot cheaper. BTW, your friendly motorcycle mechanic probably knows nothing about these bikes just due to the age.

Aside from carbs and valve clearances, things also need to be looked at and recommissioned before riding the bike is the brake lines, which are only good for 4 years from date of manufacture, (printed on brake line, mo/year) brake master cylinder, caliber, pads and check the rear brake shoes for delamination. This is where the brake lining material is separating from the brake shoe. If that happens completely at 50mph it won't end well. Also the tires could be dry rotted and the sidewalls are weakened and require replacing.

By most estimates, doing the work yourself, you can look to spend anywhere from $500 to $800 to get the bike running correctly and safe.

Learning to work on these bikes is a breeze and you have more than enough help here in the forums. The link to XJForever parts is at the top right and is the best source for the correct parts and great technical advice.

Once you recommission the bike, you will love it. It is well worth the time, money and the learning curve.

good luck, and hope this helps.

 

mfh249 where are you in ohio?

 

your hard starting is likely due to the cold start wells in the float bowls being plugged up. low compression can also be a factor. before you spend any more money, a compression check is in order. if you haven't done it, a valve adjustment is the next step.

just a little light reading;

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=8918.html

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14692.html

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27544.html

hope this helps.

CN

 

Keep in mind, ... XJ-Bikes are difficult to start when the temperature dips below 50-degrees.

You NEED a Battery that is in good condition and fully charged.
Enrichment Circuit elements in perfect condition.

I run a length of Rubber Hose into the Airbox Snorkel with the end Tie-wrapped to the Seat Rail.
I shoot some Starting Fluid into the box to get her to pop and once started let her warm-up for 3 to 5 minutes before hitting the road.

 

Have you tried replacing the spark plugs? Then the battery if it is iffy. Try the simple stuff before you get into the complicated stuff - it's a process of elimination and is quite fun if it's not your primary transport. I find it strange people want you to strip your engine straight away (only kidding). Carb cleaning is easy don't be scared of doing it yourself. If you have the service manual it is easy and you don't need to be too technically minded - I'm not and do it regularly. The service manuals also have a trouble shooting guide that can give you lots of suggestions you can work through. I would sugegst you have a JIS standard screwdriver for the carb screws so you don't wreck them. Check your airfilter is clean too. At least it's running so you can do it bit by bit eg one carbie a weekend and still ride. Once the consumables are done then you can get into tune and carb balance. Good luck and have fun.

 

mfh249,

Welcome to the club. All good advice^. Do you have a place to store and work on your bike? If so, and you are up for the task this forum can get her running in good form providing she has a solid plant. Many members, like myself, were skeptical about whether or not to sale our bikes after we got them. Truth...many of the things you will do to the 650 will have to be done to the Suzuki should you buy it. Truth...riding a motorcycle that has not been decently maintained is 1000 times more dangerous than driving a vehicle in the same. The XJ series bikes are strong, durable and well built bikes. If it's a Maxim it is one of the more common bikes meaning just about all of the parts, except for the infamous right battery cover, are available. IMO the starting issues are a combination of a number of things that can be sorted with a bit of your time, a fist full of $, a good service manual and this site. Think about it and let us know.

Roc

 

The crew is right; this isn't a "pay a shop to fix it once" proposition whatsoever.

You need to check and adjust your valve clearances and then check compression to ensure you are working with a viable motor.

Then you need to fully service the carbs and properly adjust their float levels before returning them to the bike for synchronization.

That will get it running. Then we need to discuss stopping. Thirty+ year old brakes won't work.

The $500 ~ $800 budget mentioned above is for parts and a few specialized tools, like a service manual. It presumes that you'll be doing the work. If you to try to pay a shop to do everything that needs to be done to a 30-year old bike, you'll end up spending literally thousands of dollars. Too many labor hours.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Kenny, I'm in Middletown. I've ridden this bike for two years now and it's always been hard to start like this. I did the plugs, battery and oil change as soon as I got the carbs put on, as well as a new ignition switch since the old one could be turned with anything you could stick in there, which made me suspect it had been stolen at some point.

The wife just started riding, I got her a Virago 250, knowing that would not be big enough for her, and took the state motorcycle skills school with her (even though I've had my endorsement for over 30 years). Sure enough, before the summer was over she wanted a bigger bike so we found a Virago 535 for her, which I think is as big as she needs to go for her size. Now I just need to find a buyer for the 250. Her bike starts right up, it's getting frustrating to have to fool with mine for so long to get it going every time.

My bike is indeed a Maxim. I had to replace the master cylinder this past fall after I managed to A) strip the head of one of the screws and then B) try an easy-out and finally C) drill out the old screw and go right into the side of the old master cylinder. I should have checked here first for the part. The shop only found an after-market one that didn't have the mirror attachment, so I had to get a different mirror for it and it's starting to look a little cobbed up.

I may try to attack the carbs myself; I found a video of it and it looks fairly straightforward, but when I read the text on this site it sounds a lot more complicated. Since it was two degrees below zero this morning I think I'll wait a bit until it warms up.

 

You can't sync the carbs if the valves aren't in spec.

Don't ignore the valve clearances, they only get tighter and if ignored you will damage the motor.

 

I have the same problem with my 82 XJ 650. I must have purchased 6 cans of carb cleaner and still have issues with the bike running. I probably used two cans alone on the fuel bowls. They have a jet in it that has to do with the choke (fuel enrichment circuit). I had cleaner fluid flying out that jet. I took the carbs apart and cleaned them twice and still have problems with the bike starting. Don't ask bigfitz a simple question. I had an ASE mechanic across the street come over to do a compression test. From left to right I got 150, 145 145 145. So I asked him how can there be a problem with the valves if I got great compression. He went off on me about asking a simple question. I honestly think he has stock in the valve shims or pads. It's also sad to see people that find motorcycles in a barn that are 50 60 100 years old and they get them to start. I am 45 and never had so many problems getting a motorcycle to start.

 

For $300 a shop might spend only a half-hour inside the carbs, blowing out the jets, completely ignoring the critical enrichment circuit, setting the floats incorrectly - etc. You really should do this work yourself.

(rear brake warning \/ )

 

VERY common issue, I became a master of my impact screwdriver just upgrading my break lines (to stainless steel, highly recommended). Chacal (link in that animated gif at the top of the screen) has really good replacement screws, hex head.

You'll find things frustrating at first, then you'll find excuses to work on that bike! For those of us who aren't currently working on our machines, we live vicariously through others (via http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=4769.html ) and plan future adjustments/upgrades.

 

All good advice. Take it from me, having a shop do the carbs will just mean that you spend a lot of money and you will still need to go into the carbs if you really want them right--but at least they will be a little cleaner when you get there. These are really great bikes when running well, but if you don't want to do the work it's going to be very expensive and probably very frustrating. If you can't do the maintenance, you will probably be better off with a "younger" bike.

 

The bottom line is, if you can afford to pay a shop to properly resurrect a 32 year old bike, then you can afford a brand new bike. Or at least one less than 6 years old.

Old bikes are simply a DIY proposition unless you're made of money. (In which case you'd probably just buy a new bike.)

However, if you CAN do the work, then you can have a really nice bike for about 1/3 (or less) the cost of a new one. But this isn't a used car. A couple of trips to the local shop ain't gonna get you there.