Has a dealership ever tried to rip you off?

I own a 1985 Maxim XJ700N. It's the flat black model and it's in great shape. Chrome is all neat and polished, engine has been cleaned out, most gaskets have been replaced, starts with the first click of the starter even in the cold. The only problem is a small dent in the tank where a hedge apple it hit.

The local motorcycle dealer here currently has a 1985 Maxim XJ700N. The only differences are that it is the red model, no dent in the tank, and there is 200 less miles on it. They are selling it for $1,850.

I really like the red color and I asked what if I traded in my black one for the red one. The dealer said he'd take my bike and knock the price down to $1,500, since my bike is only worth about $350!

Needless to say I said no.
Has a dealer ever tried to rip you off?

 

No. Never. Ever.

ALL dealerships of ALL kinds are ALWAYS pure as driven snow.

You should know that by now, and not ask such silly questions.

 

Don't you mean 'stealership?'

 

Well, at least you know how much the dealer got for it on trade it ,,,,,,,, about $350, and I'd like to slap whoever gave it up for "about" $350

The rare honest dealer is a breath of fresh air. But yeah, have met my fair share of rip-off dealers. Usually ends with me saying, "thats too bad you want THAT much". Some sad soul will pay though.

 

/\Waht he said/\
:? :lol: :?

 

the dealership i work for rips someone off every 5 minutes or so. they are so good at it that occasionally they rip themselves off!

 

I need to defend the dealer (some) on this one.

The dealership has a ton of expenses most of us never think about: the building, the parking lot, lights, heat, the girl that answers the phone, the sales guy, the cleaners, advertising, telephones etc. And then there are all the taxes the government takes: payroll, real estate, inventory and personal property at least. Personal property is all the stuff not permanently attached to the building - desks, chairs, telephones, computers, tools etc.

All those costs have to be covered by the spread between what he buys things for and what he sells them for. Plus, he'd like the spread to be wider because he is there to make a profit.

Now, $1500 might not be a reasonable spread on this particular motorcycle. That's his opening offer and it's certainaly not his best. The sales guy's job is to make the spread as wide as possible on everything he does.

 

+1 MiCarl, the dealer isn't there to loose money.
I regularly call them stealerships because of my disdain for them but they, like you and me, can ask what ever price they want for anything they sell. That is the way of capitalism. It is up to the consumer to determine if they wish to buy at that price. If the costs were too steep, not to many sales occur and a dealer has to rethink their pricing strategy or face closing down. That is how you use your pocketbook to make a statement. I've seen a few shops go the way of the wind because of overpricing and a bad economy. I've also seen a few that were overpriced thrive and are still around today (sorry Rick, but Stockers is one of them).
Personally, I use independents or Chacal for anything I need.

 

My main gripe with dealerships is that often they're the only source for some OEM parts, so you're forced to pay dealership tax, unless you know someone who can get stuff wholesale. I remember paying over $40 for a plastic coolant elbow with two o-rings (couldn't have been worth more than $5) for a Pontiac engine. I know it takes money to run a business, but dammmm....

 

What really pisses me off is the lack of profesional curtisy these days, I had a guy come over to the gm dealer i work for to buy some of my over priced crap and i gave him a smokin deal (he would have had to be my wife to get any better) about a week later I went over to see him at the motorsports dealer next door (to price out some of his overpriced crap) and i practicly had to brow beat the sob for 5-10%? 8O ***WTF** next time his pos breaks down I'm starting the parts bid at retail + 20% the bastard can work me down from there!!!! :twisted:

 

WERE the only source. We gots Al Gore on our side, so the innanet kind of levels THAT playing field. DO NOT give me bad service I can go elsewhere with a mouse click.

(I use chacal a lot too...)

 

So does that mean I'm an honorary mouse click?

 

You have to be until you get a website :lol:

 

thank goodness i dont deal with big city dealerships, for snowmobile parts, one of my dads friends got a dealership license... so we jsut got to him, get stuff at whole sale cost, and give him like 50 bucks per 1000 of stuff he gets for the hassle of goin to baycity and stuff.

Then Suzuki sam's we call him, his name is sam o connar, he runs a honda and suzuki sales company, he sponsers all the local mx stuff, gives out to the comunity, and he's cheap!... when i go there to get parts he'll lok up parts in his book that he needs to order, like say if it says 11.50, 10 bucks, or 6, its 5, and so on... good deals.
the yamaha dealer on 53 and some other road, they're a stealership, they sell ktm's too... paid $38 bucks for a brake lever, gimmie a brake!

also, heres an idea of how much money is being made. My cousins friend work for walboro in Cass city, they make lots of fuel systems for snowmobiles.... on a polaris sled, they have a float shut off valve thing, they sell to polaris for 5.50, go to a polaris dealer, its $72.

At our tech center, we have a 3d printert aht uses a powder and glue to designe models, well walboro sends their designs to us, we print them off, so we have all the "hot" new items being made for sleds... should take a picture and send to snowgoer... we made a fuel pump thats gonna be used in the 2012 model year..

 

I like chacal because I can get an explanation with the parts that always teaches me something valuable. At the dealership I only deal with people that can order parts - forget about any real motorcycle knowledge - they keep their mechanics hidden somewhere. But, that being said, there have been some instances where I had little choice but to get a part from the dealership and so far I've had a good experience.

 

Yah, but.............

If "Walboro" is the manufacturer of these float valve thingies, then they are really selling them to the Polaris Company (or whoever owns Polaris), and those thingies go into the Polaris Company parts distribution system.

The local Polaris dealership is actually an independant business that licenses the rights from Polaris Company to sell and service Polaris snowmobiles, etc. That dealership buys those thingies from the Polaris Company, through their parts distribution division, probably at about 1/2 of the recommended list price of $72.....so Polaris dealership is buying thingie from Polaris Company at about $36. So they get a 50% (or 100%, depending on how you play with numbers!) profit/markup/etc.

Now, Polaris Company, who buys from Walboro, pays $5.50 and sells it to their dealerships for $36.00......that's a bigger markup, BUT, I bet that Polaris had to also pay for design fees, etc. to Walboro, AND they don't get to buy "just one", I'll bet you they had to buy 1000, 5000, 10,000 units or more to get that $ 5.50 price.

And I'll bet you Walboro makes them somewhere and their unit cost is down around the $1.00 range.

The "end user" sees the $72 price tag and thinks they're getting ripped off, but actually they are paying the LEAST markup (percentage-wise) in the entire manufacturing/distribution chain! And they can buy one at a time. If they bought a 1000 at a time, their price would go down, too!

Dealership are stealerships not so much for their parts pricing, but just because of their overall attitude of "once we have your money, we couldn't give an F about you".........every transaction seems to be looked at as a 1-time deal between them and their customer.......something I've never quite understood, but, oh well.

Of course, most dealerships are not run nor staffed by the brightest turnips on the truck, either............

 

I think you just went from being an honorary mouse click to the brightest turnip on our little XJ truck! :wink:

Keep up the good work, Len!

 

Just recently my alternator went on my Focus. Asked the friendly Dealer near by for an estimate. Alternator $300.00 labor 3-4 hrs at $98.00 . You guessed it, I had to do it my self. Took me 3 hrs, even had to lift and move the engine, cause it is in the back of it.

 

I did have one good experience with a motorcycle dealership that I can think of. I had to buy a set of tires for my Maxim and then pay what felt like a million bucks to bring the wheels in and have the tires mounted and balanced. Oh, the wheels and old tires had to stay at the dealership overnight. (I guess for some kind of separation ritual or something). The dealership is about 30 miles from my house so I was complaining to the parts guy about it and he made the mistake of commiserating with my misery. HA! I had him right where I wanted him! Right by the discount key. I wound up buying my SYMAX II helmet for $5 less than the cheapest price I could find on the net delivered. Sometimes you can work wallet pain and inconvenience to your advantage.

Now if I could just make the dealer her in Vancouver misty eyed maybe he would make me a SMOKIN deal on that old (1989) Beemer he has had in his inventory for nearly a year.

Does this crazy desire to aquire various motorcycles ever end?

 

Back in the day, I bought my Norton from a big, mainstream Japanese franchise dealership; the kind that just wants your money. I bought it there because they had the bike I wanted, and for no other reason. It went back there for its 500 mile check and neither it nor I went back there again.

I bought (both) my SR500s from an old-school, family run neighborhood motorcycle shop. The kind of place where you could go hang out and drink coffee and kibitz with the owner, his son and their quirky but knowledgeable mechanic while they assembled bikes, etc. None of the "you can't come back here because of insurance regulations" crap. Unfortunately, once the original owner passed away and his son didn't want to continue the business, they sold it to some sort of new "Powersports" franchise and slowly became just another big Jap bike shop with attitude.

Since there are MAYBE (and that's a stretch) one or two new bikes in the entire spectrum I would only be remotely interested in, I have no need for motorcycle dealerships. The little neighborhood shops are still there, mostly for ATVs and dirt bikes and the like, but they have oil and spark plugs and a friendly feel. And you should see the spikey-haired motocross jock light up when he sees my restored Seca...

Oh, and thanks again from all of us for the old-school attitude, Mr. Mouse Click.

 

I call them stealerships because of the service departments either doing things wrong or charging for things they didn't do at all. Like they guy I bought my XJ650 from, he paid North of $400 for carburetor cleaning (I was with him when he paid the bill) and then I needed an impact driver to disassemble them because they hadn't been opened in 25 years.

 

I agree with most of what has been stated here, but we must remember that the reason these people are in business is to make money.We all like to be paid for the work we do on our jobs, and would gladly take more if we can get it.

Before I found this forum, I went to a local dealership to find out more about the YICS tool. I had a factory service manual that referenced the tool, but showed no pictures of it. I asked at the parts counter, and they had a mechanic come over from the building next door.

He brought over a tool to show me what it looked like and how it was installed. I inquired about purchasing one and, after he asked around, was told that they are no longer available from Yamaha. A company here in the Detroit area was making them for awhile, but did not any longer.

He then proceeded to tell me,that if I liked, he would ask the service manager if I could borrow one of their tools. I declined, as I don't typically like my tools leaving my garage, but was grateful none the less. He could easily have told me just bring it in and let us soak you for it, but he didn't.

Just as with most things, we need to judge things on a one by one basis, and not make blanket condemnations. NOT meaning to imply that about anyone here, just speaking generally. My point is, there are bad apples and there are good people in every walk of life. We just need to find the right way to tell them apart.

OK, preaching is done, thanks for reading. And yes, if I need something done that I can't do myself, I will go back to that dealership (but I still will be getting my parts from Chacal, I'm not that stupid.)

Mike

 

MiCarl, You posted before I could finish typing. Taking money for something that wasn't done is flat out wrong!! In anyone's book. It's experiences like this that prompt the need for these post topics. That would cost a mechanic his job, in my book.

 

Before I took the plunge and cleaned my own carbs,I made the mistake of taking them to the local Yamaha dealer.The service manager called me into the back and proceeded to talk me out of having them cleaned.He actually asked me,and I quote "These carbs are off of a 25 year old bike,is the bike really worth spending $300-400 when you could put that money toward a newer bike?" I laughed at him,took my carbs home and after 3 or 4 hours, that 25 year old bike was purring like a kitten.
That was my first experience with a dealer mechanic and it will be my last.

 

He does have a valid point. I believe I offer a good value on my service, at that though when you do the math for the typical XJ650:

Carbs cleaned, synced and mixture set $220+ parts
Set of cheap tires installed $250.
Clean the gunk out of the brakes $60 + brake parts
Check Valve lash $165 + shims
Oil and filter $40 (assuming the filter bolt isn't siezed)
Fork Oil change $80
------------------------------

So, for a pretty good condition bike that's just been sitting in someones garage for five years you'd be looking at at least $815 to get it on the road. If you bought the bike for $800 you'd be $1615 into it before the first ride.

In August I sold my XJ650J that had all that done plus saddle bags, lighting upgrades and air horn for $1300.

If you aren't going to do most of the work yourself it just doesn't make financial sense.

 

Those are good points if you just use a common sense return vs. investment attitude but I'm of the opinion that they don't make bikes like this anymore and they are worth the extra effort/money to keep them going.I didn't like the mechanic telling me that my bike was disposable because the carbs were dirty.
BTW MiCarl, with those prices and your knowledge,I wish I lived close enough to pay you a visit.Do you make house calls? :lol:

 

I'm with you 100% on bringing them back to life. My Maxim didn't make sense, and I've got a Venture I'm going to lose money on too. Loving every minute of it.

I might make a house call, but you'd have to pay me in Loonies. I won't travel to get this crap the Fed is manufacturing like mad!

 

I've had mixed experiences at dealerships. The salesmen tend to be aggressive, and the mechanics and parts people aren't always customer services professionals. But I think a lot of us walk into a dealership expecting to get treated like crap, tried to be taken advantage of. That, in turn, probably affects how we act right off the bat.

I had to get one of the carbs off my rack to replace, and a mechanic was kind enough to use his impact wrench to remove a couple bolts for me. Simple enough. But consider the risk in forcing 25 year old bolts out of a carb rack, I'd be hesitant to do the same in his shoes.

New items are always going to be expensive. But when you've got a bunch of middlemen along the way, each marking the product up 100-200%, prices can rise quickly. That's how it works at my company too.

Then again, some shops are just full of scumbags..

 

Stoped in to see what the local used and salvage dealer had today I don't know that i would really consider them a dealer but they are pretty fair most of the time... they have a 82 650 seca he says they "tuned it up and it runs pretty good" im not totaly sure what that means! it's pretty rough to look at but no leaks or damage that i could see, with 65000+ km's on it asking about $1600cad for it which i thought was i little high for the off season but clearly they need to make money on it, i figure a private seller would get $1200 or so in the spring for it so it's not to bad but more than i would pay either way! what are used prices like elsewhere?

Shaun

 

I would love to use Chacal........but when are you going to expand to the european market?

Must admit learnt some good things from reading your posts mate

 

I believe Chacal ships worldwide!

crewwolfy raises a good point. How the mechanics have been treated in the past can influence how helpful they will be in the future. Working on anything 30 years old can be risky. They try to do someone a favor, a screw strips, a part breaks, the customer pitches a fit, and suddenly the're the bad guy.

So they think to themselves, I don't need this grief, that's the last time I go out on a limb on something like this. The next customer may be more understanding of the risk, but the mechanic is no longer willing to take on the possibility of more headaches.

The moral is, when you get someone willing to help, treat them right.

Of course, having said that, there are also dispicable lowlifes who will charge for work that is not performed, or done incorrectly. They need to turned in to the authorities, if they refuse to make things right, as that is a criminal act.

 

[/quote] He does have a valid point. I believe I offer a good value on my service, at that though when you do the math for the typical XJ650:

Carbs cleaned, synced and mixture set $220+ parts
Set of cheap tires installed $250.
Clean the gunk out of the brakes $60 + brake parts
Check Valve lash $165 + shims
Oil and filter $40 (assuming the filter bolt isn't siezed)
Fork Oil change $80
------------------------------

If you aren't going to do most of the work yourself it just doesn't make financial sense.[/quote]

I guess it's pricing like this that makes me do my own maintenance when I can. $40 for an oil change has less than $15 in parts and pratically no labor in too much (imo) $60 labor to bleed brakes is what $120/hr? I feel I made a decent wage at $35/hr being an electrician so to pay someone $120/hr to do what in my mind is a less skilled job is not in my best interest. Sorry I know they have to make a living but at what cost . $.02

 

The Yamaha Dealer in our area, won't work on bikes that are more that 10 years old.... And they DON'T rent tools ...
But parts aren't to bad, considering customs, tax, shipping .....

 

Servicing charges are $100.00 CAN/hr. IF you have a newer bike, and they elect to take on the job!

 

Prices .... In BC, you'll get a little more for a running XJ, more like around $2000.00 usually with around 50-70,000 KMs

 

I asked my local Yamaha shop how much it would cost to do my valves right after I bought the bike. He asked me what it was I told him an '80 XJ650.

He looked right at me and asked me if it was fuel injected and if it had hydraulic valves.

I will admit the old mechanic that was standing next to him turned and cuffed him in the head and then told me with the engine in the bike...about $200 and then the cost of any shims.

Was a heart warming scene.....

 

I hear this a lot about Yammie dealerships in particular. Yes, the bikes are great. They're bullet-proof, great styling, great value for your dollar (new bike or old) but once you're out the door, you're on your own.

 

I charge $55/hour for labor, which is $25-30 less than the dealers. That per hour working on the bike, not writing up the work order, answering the phone, paying bills, running for parts etc.

So, in your oil change example figure $15 for parts and 1/2 hour labor and you're at 40 bucks.

That $55/hour has to cover the rent, the insurance, utilities, taxes (I literally pay property tax, every year, on the chair you sit in while I write the work order), disposal fees (it costs $12/gallon to dispose of brake fluid). Plus all the paperwork to comply with state laws and all the permit fees both for myself and the business. And of course somehow I have to pay for thousands of dollars worth of tools. Oh yeah, if the customer pays by credit card the card company gets about $1.65/hour.

This is the point I was making in my first post about the mark up the dealer is putting on the motorcycle. He has these expenses too.

I have yet to earn a dime. I figure when I'm billing 35 hours per week I'll break even. When I get to billing 40 I'll make $275/week. Of course I'll have to work 55 hours to have 40 billable, so I'll be earning 5 bux an hour (not counting the extra 8% in payroll tax I'll pay as self employed).

Bottom line is I won't make any money until I have someone turning wrenches for me at $20/hour. And he'll be bitching that he's getting ripped off because I bill at 55 but only pay 20.

I don't blame you for not paying for work you can do yourself, I do the same. Just understand that the people that can't or won't aren't getting ripped off at $55/hour.

 

MiCarl, well thought out and well presented. Most people who work for someone else have a hard time understanding the cost of doing business. Emergency gall bladder removal for my wife. Into the ED at 1:30 in the afternoon and out the next a.m. At 11:00. Hospital bill? $22,000 + surgeon + anesthesiologist. The hospital is community owned, not for profit, and operates at a .5% margin(.005 X sales) Not much leeway for economic downturns, etc.

Thanks again for the illustration.

 

Hey Kenbo...........I ship to Scotland! And most of the Euro/UK XJ650 models are idnetical to what is known in the US marketplace as the XJ650RJ Seca model..............

 

I've stopped using my local Yamaha dealer....

Took my 900 to them and asked for a carb sync... The reset the mixtures and bike ran worse than when I took it in... Very disapointed that they decided that a carb sync meant the mixtures need reset as well... Not what I asked them to do... Mixtures were fine before they messed with them.

2nd time I asked them to do work was a repair on my forks... Once again I got them back and they dived a lot easier than they had before and it felt like the bike was pulling to the left... When I swapped the forks for another set and pulled those ones apart I found that they had damaged the tops of the forks and when they tried to fit tohe air assisted collars back on it tore up the o-rings, caused an oil leak and didn't hold air. I rang the owner up and asked for an explination and got an ear full for my troubles....

I no longer go there and no longer recommend them to people... In fact I bag them every chance I get.

 

i must be one of the lucky ones, i go online, get my prices, and take my list to one of the local dealers, and he matches the price within a few cents 90% of the time, chacal just got a large order from me because the dealer told me he couldnt get those parts.

 

MiCarl:

It seems that the US is not the small-business-friendly place that it used to be huh? It sounds like they're (gov't, lawyers, etc) are making it almost impossible.

 

Actually the Feds aren't the problem. All the regulations, paperwork and fees are courtesy of The State of Michigan. I'm starting to understand why there are no jobs here........

 

wamaxim,
My wife just (as in, yesterday) had the same surgery; although it wasn't an emergency, it has been scheduled for a few weeks. How long was your wife's recovery? I am quite interested in what the bill will look like.

 

I paid $220 for the WRONG piston rings at Western Powersports and was charged a re-stocking fee of $25. They wanted to charge $44. Don't buy anything there or at Daytona, they're f**king worse.
Buy from Chacal.

 

$55/hour is definetly fair.
Around here the cheapest rate is $68/hour.

I never understood this, when I bring my 26 year old Buick in for service the shop never balks saying the car is to old why do shops do this for bikes.

As far as parts breaking, this is why you take it to the shop.
So you don't screw it up.
More then once I've had to put my tail between my legs and go to the shop with my self made mess.
I learned to let them screw it up.

 

Quick example.
I did the 100,000 mile service on my mothers Sable.
The front three plugs that are right there in the open were a b***h to change.
The back three you can't even see.
Believe me I didn't want to pay $70 to have the back plugs put in but, better the mechanic pull the coil pack and manifold then me doing it and screwing something up.
Mom wasn't to happy either but it could of been worse.
Damn new cars.

Edited be Robert. Mind the language please! Thanks!

 

You'd better have an XL set of saddle bags if you want me to pay you in Loonies.