HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding ~SOLVED!!~

I was coming home tonight from an interview and was crusing along in fourth gear at 45 mph. I'm curled up cause its kinda chilly out. I uncurled to shift, and my bike dies.. RPMs hit 0, speedo is still working, lights still working, and just the clutch whirring.. Then she kicks back up again!
So I hold on as she jerks forward and I ride again praying I can get home ok... or at least close.. Then it does it again. Bam! rpm 0 ect ect... So i coast her to a stop cursing up a storm.
Put her in N, shut her off for a few min. Try to start her up, it cranks, very... very slowly.. Sounded like I was manually turning the cams.. Tried twice.. Then it wouldnt turn over at all.
So at 11pm i pulled out my cell phone and numerous tools from my saddlebags and checked the fuses, good. Cranked the cams manually to see if the engine seized, but she rolled ok. checked all my wires and kickstand swtich... all seemed ok. Kickstand switch is still a possibility in my mind.
So I go to start her and I hear the Solenoid click, but nothing else...
So i pushed her for 8 miles towards my house. By this time its 2am... I pulled her into Napa.. and walked the last 5 miles home.. loaded with all her tools, my helmet and my pride in my backpack.. its now 4am and I'm still freaking out...

Whats wrong with my baby??
If anyone needs any more info, i'll be happy to post. I'm getting the battery load tested tomorrow, and if she's no good I'll buy a new bat.. my neighbor, who made me coffe and biscuits, thinks it may be my charging system, alternator and such..
Anyway,
Good morning
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

If the switch is anything like on my XJ750, you can rule out that possibility. If it wouldn't start in neutral then the switch is most likely not the culprit. Same with the kill switch, because it wouldn't even kick over.

I would definatly check to see if it is the charge on the battery and first try to check/clean the battery connectors, if either the battery or alternator goes out I could see it crapin out on you. These bikes wont run for $%!# without both the alternator and good battery charge. Just try to push start one with a bad battery.....

If you were huddled up tight against your bike, your leg could have been making a better connection w/ the battery, or possibly messed it up. Simple fix worth looking at. A bad connection with the battery could still leave lights on, but not give enough juice to run/start.

Hope it helps and I'm sure the Guru's will have it figured out in no time!

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

That right there screams TCI. Either there's a bad solder joint or at least one of the electrolytic capacitors inside the beastie is failing. Had the same thing happen to me on my 750 a few years back. Engine cut out intermittently like I hit the kill switch, but everything is still lit up.

I swapped the capacitors, touched up the solder joints, and it's been solid as a rock since.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Sounds to me like a battery/charging issue. He said it would barely turn over, and then he was just getting a "click" from the solenoid but no cranking.

I suspect the alternator needs attention or you may just need a new battery. Check your charging circuit output (above 2K rpms.)

Either that or classic XJ fusebox fail.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

I was going to ask the same about mine.... she did this same thing last nite to me, i was lucky, i was just riding around the neighborhood when she died.... hit the starter and only hear a click, i was able to push start her and get her back home..... my father in-law is in town and he told me that earlier in the day he tried my bike and she would not start, just hearing the click, battery was on charge for a few hours so did not suspect that, what he did try was putting the bike in gear, pulling the clutch and rolling the bike forward,(but not push starting) when he hit the starter.... VRRROOOMM the beast started...... what gives with that?

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

One of my bikes did that and I found the three wire plug from the alternator melted.

MN

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Headin back to Napa now in the trusty old car.. I'll buy some elec cleaner and hit the connections on my TCI, I dont know how to take it apart yet. I'll also try and push start it after I test my Battery load. You just roll the bike forward while holding in the clutch in first gear, then hit the start button right??
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Push start: if doing alone...hopefully on flat ground or even better down a slope, ignition on, in gear, clutch held in, start pushing it, get up a slow run throw ya leg over and hop on, release clutch, the motor will turn and hopefully start. If with helpers.... same as above but you get on and they push. May not start at first try, try again.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

I personally find 2nd tends to work the better as it takes less force to turn the engine over.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Thats neat. I should have tried it like that when I was there! I thought you had to hit the start button.
Ok, so the battery is good. Passed the load and amp test at Napa. I cleaned every single connection I could get my hands on then tested with a volt meter. I got numbers (not sure exactly what numbers I'm looking for at DC 20 on the Voltmeter but they were all below 20. Between 5 and 20 actually.) on all the connections including the TCI, EXCEPT for the black wire on my Solenoid and the connection to my starter.
I even got volts on the little blue and white connection on the solenoid, and the big red wire on the solenoid. Just not the black wire. Does this tell anyone anything?? bad solenoid??
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Oh! I even tried jumping the Solenoid from my battery like I used to do... Nothing.. Then I jumped it from the batery to the acutal starter connection.. nothing.. not even a spark or a fritz on either... I'm soooo bummed...

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

""She cranks very, very slowly ...""

You were cruising along on the Power of the Battery ... then, the Battery dived down BELOW enough Power to keep you going.

I'd look right at the Alternator Brushes and see it they are within Specx. If they are 10mm or Shorter ... you quit making power.
If they are within Spex ... The Voltage Regulator might have died.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Ok, the alternator is right in front of the starter correct? has a couple hex heads for bolts? I've been meaning to clean the starter and the alternator brushes. Its on my To Do list. I'll spec it as soon as I get her home.
Would the alternator cause the not starting or not cranking at ALL?? She wont even sputter now. The solenoid just clicks once.
Where is the Voltage Regulator located, do you know sir?
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Checked all the connections with a volt meter. All good! Even in the headlight bucket and fuses. I've pulled the starter out (gonna paint it anyway) and I'ma check the brushes in there too. Got Kroil on my alternator, hopefully the cover pulls off nicely... Maybe its just a bad solenoid?? It seems like the power just stops there.. I'ma put the volt meter on the solenoid and hit the start button and see if I get a reading then, after I re-install the starter of course. Blaaa... this sucks.. I wanna ride..
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Popped open the starter. and It was Waaaay dirtier than the carbs. Took a cloth and cleaned off EVERYTHING. Whew that was nasty.
One of the magnetic strips inside the starter was broken in half! It pushed itself down a bit, bout a mm or 2 but no closer to the other strips. If this broke while I was riding, could it have caused my Sudden Death?
Should I order a new one??

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

I could have been binding the starter. others may disagree but it's just a magnet - I would clean and re epoxy it in place.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Its definatly clinging to the Rotor. I put the rotor back in and instantly it snapped to it. So yes, it sounds like it could have been binding the Rotor. So its possible that the magnets force is keeping my starter from spinning. Does the starter run while the engine is moving? If it does that could explain why my bike just... stopped.. The rotor had no where to go! Would Expoy be ok?? Do those magnetic strips ever need to be changed?? There is a jagged edge where the strip seperated, so it wont fit flush, but It comes close 1-2mm. I cant get the other strips out, so maybe they're not supposed to be changed.
Oh well. I hope this is my problem. I tire of searching for problems.. I like to know what is wrong asap. I'll let my starter dry and then I'll try epoxying that piece.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

yes no no

Starter won't spin like that - does not run while bike is running - should not have caused your stoppage.

epoxy should be fine - jagged edge? in what I would try and smooth it out as best you can.

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Used some quick steel. gonna try and put it back in here in a couple of mintues. Still trying to get that Alternator Cover off. I need an impact wrench with a hex head... I got these little hex wrenches..

~sigh~ So i guess this isnt THE problem bill.. But its another thing done then.. Oh well.. Eventually it'll work again..

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

Guess what?? She LIVES!
I think that it was sooo gunked up in the starter that it was blocking current! Or something, I dunno. But I cleaned the starter, quick steeled the plate back in place, and put her back together, painted her, and connected back to the bike. I dont think the plate will hold on very long.. Def a temp fix.. I need a new starter core thing with the magnets in it. Anyone know where to get one??
-Chris

 

Re: HELP!! Please help, Bike DIED when riding

The magnet is probably why the starter wouldn't turn over, but I wouldn't think it would make the bike stop running. Once you get it turning over again, make sure you're getting spark. I had a wire come loose under my seat (in the fuse area, fuses were all good, though) and the bike did the same thing yours did. Just quit going down the road for a second, fire back up, quit again. Eventually, it didn't fire back up. Not sure what the wire went to (there's a mess of em under there), but it was causing the problems.

 

I reconnected every single wire and connector I could get my hands on when I first broke down. Didnt have any cleaner on me though. I'm bout to go on a quick test run and see whats up whats up

 

Maybe it's them LED lights :twisted:

Just kidding ............

 

LOL. Those LEDS were trickling my battery, so I disconnected them. I finished it BTW. And the red on it looks FANTASTIC! I wish it looked as good in pics as in person. Anyway
Drove her around for 10 miles up and down my street in case she failed again. Did perfect. Took a sec to start her though... Odd indeed.. Need a new starter thingy with the magnets in it..
But now I've got her on the charger. I ran around at 5k rpms to "charge" her up, and see if the alternator is charging my battery. I charged her for about 3 hours today while I took my starter apart and cleaned it, ran it around for 3 miles, then put her away.
So now that i've got her on the charger, if she doesnt charge fully in like an hour, then I need to fix my alternator, cause she's runnin off my battery if the alternator isnt working. Not good for the battery.. But if she fully charges, then I'm good for a while, until the next break down...
-Chris

 

All you need to do to ... to see if your Alternator IS Charging your Battery is to put a Voltmeter on the Battery and see whats happening.

Start with a Charged Battery.
When you hit the Starter ... It should dive to 11.5 Volts
Once it starts to Run:
The Voltage should recover to 12 Volts
As you Pick-Up RPM's -- Rise as the RPM's get to around 1,850 RPM
At 1,850 ... the Voltage should be up around 14.2 Minimum
At 2,000 ... the Voltage should be right at 14.5 Volts (or slightly above)

At 2,000 and Up ... 14.5 Steady (14.2 Low Limit <> 14.8 High Limit)
Below 14.2 ... NG
Above 14.7 ... NG

 

Wish I owned one... I borrow it from my neighbors lol. I can always do it tomorrow when I get off work. That sounds like a good plan, very easy.
NG means... Not good??

 

I've glued PMGR magnets back in before with no problem. Make sure you slide it in the way it came out so that you dont reverse the poles. But I agree that the starter is not likely to cause your bike to die.

 

So i just tested the alternator like you said Rick. At 2k rpms she holds at a 14.2... Which means i should replace the brushes right? Chacal sells a "set" of alternator brushes, but how many brushes are in the alternator? Should i buy one or two sets?
Could it not have been charging enough, and died on me when the battery power went out??
Probably means I shouldnt commute too far from a power outlet... Sucks..
-Chris

 

Chris only 2 brushes so 1 set is fine but take a look at them the other possibility is your voltage regulator. Let's hope it's your brushes - cheaper fix

 

Bike DIED when riding ~Re-Opened~

Chacal says that 14.2 is on the low end, but rideable. I'm going to take the cover off tomorrow after an 16 mile trek back and forth to work. I work from 7 - 12, and I'll be worrying the whole time.. But I gotta test it. My neighbors have off tomorrow so if something does happen i got my posse on standby lol. So, clean inside of the alternator, if I can get the cover off with some heat kroil and MC hammer time, and make a measurement of the brushes.
Where is the voltage regulator located and how do I check to see if its working properly?
-Chris

 

Bike DIED when riding ~Re-Opened~

Headin up to work. Here's hopin she doesnt die on me again.. I should be fine i think. I rode her up and down my street for 10 miles the other day with no prob.. But still...
-SLKid

 

She did great today. Fantastic actually.
I took apart the alt cover and cleaned out everything inside. My brushes are within spec, the lines on the bars are about 3mm away from spec. I got another season or two before I gotta replace em.
After the cleaning I voltmetered her again and she gets 14.3 now. Awesome. So something may still be wrong with my wiring or voltage rectifyer, but at least she's doing better!
I'ma do some more tests tomorrow if it doesnt rain
Thanks ya'll!
-Chris

 

So does one clean the alternator area with electric cleaner? I might go ahead and do this also.... 8O

 

I took a clean rag and wiped off the residue off all the copper plating. I used elec cleaner for behind the place where the brushes are seated. Wasnt hard, or even that dirty, but appearantly it helped a little. A little is better than nothing!
-Chris

 

I unscrewed the 3 bolts to the cover but the cover was not wanting to come off, look like it had a gasket. Was to nervous to take it off, it is the circular thing to the left of the starter motor is it not? My shop manual isnt very clear on where it is.

 

Yeah its right in front of the starter. Yes it does have a gasket, and mine was toast. So i grabbed some liquid non-hardening gasket maker and made a new one after I took a razor blade to the old one.
The cover will indeed pop off, there is no liquid inside or anyhting so you're safe. In order to completly remove the cover though you gotta pull out the starter

 

700 may be different but on the 650 you shouldn't need to pull the starter to remove the cover.

Chris are you referring to the stator coils? Should not need to remove them either....

 

Stator Coils Bill?? Now I'm a little confused.
Yeah on my 700 The wires are tucked back around the starter to keep them from view. The cover will come off, but I cant do anything with it cause the starter has those wires behind it. So I had to remove the starter to get the Alt pulled out a foot or two.
Hadnt seen the 650 yet! Maybe I should invest in one
-Chris

 

Interesting- OK I understand now.

Stator coils are the coils in the generator

 

Ooooo. Ok! Gotcha. Still learning!!

 

If you break a ceramic magnet, then glue it together tightly, you still have 2 magnets.
unbroken- - N/S. . .Broken- - N/S/N/S
If I understand you correctly, you have decreased the efficiency of the starter motor by about 25% and you need to replace the core.

 

Starts up much faster as smoother than it used to TTR