How I found myself in trouble with my 1st valve shim job

So, another XJBikes member and I met a week ago, and over a couple of hours, managed to use the wire method to check our valve clearances and our shims. He ordered that little tool during the week, and today, we were suppose to pull all the shims we needed to have replaced, and swap them out with a local shop. So what happens? The tool works great on his Maxim 750. But on my Seca 550? No go. The screw inserts at the corners of the head on cylinders 1 and 4 are just too "fat" to allow the tool to sit properly, it seems. After much frustration, I'm stupid enough to try the ziptie method again to yank out one of the shims. (The stupid shop wants you to bring the shims in to swap; don't ask...) Cylinder one just won't let go of the shim. I finally give up on that one. The ziptie method finally works on the exhaust for cylinder 4. But then the lobe won't compress the bucket enough to remove the ziptie from the spark plug hole. S**t. I can't get the shim back in there either, after rotating it. I then insert a coin in there, but the valve still doesn't push out enough to release the damn zip tie.

All of this was done in 90+ degree temperatures, which does not improve one's attitude. As darkness settled upon us, I gave up in despair. I look for some wisdom out there to help me remove the ziptie in some way. I'll use some wire next time instead of the zipties. That much is clear.

 

You must always replace the shim before moving on to the next one.
The only way to do what the shop wants is to remove the camshafts, you might have to do that now, anyway.

 

You really aren't supposed to rotate the cams without the shims for risk of damaging the cams or the buckets.

As a temporary fix, try putting a silver dollar in place of the shim if it'll fit. Don't force it if the silver dollar isn't the right size.

Wizard is right though, you may have to pull the cams to resolve this problem. The most important thing is to not let the project frustrate you too much for risk of breaking something expensive or a PITA (or both) to replace.

 

Read the frustration thread in my signature!

 

If you have a Manual Cam Chain Tensioner, ... release the Tension and "Lift" the Cams ... so you can get the Shims back in.
• You need a Set of "Longer Bearing Cap Bolts.

You only get to lift the Cam "Diagonally"

• This requires loosening the Caps ... Just enough to access the Shims on 3 & 4.
If the Cam gets-away ... and "Rotates" you lose.
You'll have to Remove the Cams and RE-TIME the Plant!
You place the LONGER BOLTS in 3 & 4 ... 1 & 2 are barely loosened.
:::: .â–‚. :: .â–ƒ. :: .â–„. :: .â–†. ::::
-------1------2------3-----4-------

Replace SHIMS in 3 & 4
Return to Normal
Reverse process.

You place the LONGER BOLTS in 1 & 2 ... 3 & 4 are barely loosened.
:::: .â–†. :: .â–…. :: .â–ƒ. :: .â–‚. ::::
------1------2------3------4-------

If you have a AUTO Tensioner, ....
Just pull the Cams and Re-Time the Mill.

 

see if you can wedge another zip tie between the cam and the coin or shim. as you rotate the cam the extra thickness of the zip tie, caught under the cam, should open the valve far enough to get the tie unstuck.
replace one shim at a time

 

+1 on what Polock is saying. I was just doing this tonight. Last night I checked clearances, but couldn't get the wire method to work. Turns out my wire just wasn't big enough. Tried the big folded over zip tie method, works a treat. I pulled all my shims for the heck of it, just so I'd know what size they are for the future.

One at a time of course.

But I also wish I could pull multiple shims, as I want to swap a few at a shop, like with Rick's cam pulling suggestion. I looked into that, but every time I look at the steps involved I get worried. And I read a thread by Rick talking about his tensioner shooting springs out and having to possibly pull carbs. Bleh, I'll do it the slow way, for now.

I wish I just had some extra shims as place holders...I'm tempted by the silver dollar suggestion. My shims are pretty thick though, don't want to have same issue as Wirehairs. But I have a caliper to measure, I figure anything that is a couple millimeters thick and fits in the bucket would work. Let us know what you end up doing, Wire.

 

Wirehairs.....if you end up with the shim still jammed in a bucket--I have loads of extra buckets that I could swap you for.

Dave Fox

 

+1 on what Rick said, pull the camshafts, you DON'T want to damage them! Also, when you pull the camshafts, you can pull and swap all your shims at once!

 

+100

 

Thanks for all the input, folks. I'm going to try a few things before I even consider messing with the cams - I don't want to dig my hole any bigger than I need to here! And yes, I'll let you know how it all turns out.

It's really unfortunate that the tool didn't work. It was an aftermarket version - I wonder if a different brand or an actual Yamaha one would of yielded different results...

 

I read a post last week where the biker took a file to the bolt holes in the tool and made it work. I bought one from Chacal and never got it to work on my XJ700n and used the wire method which worked easily. But I still have the tool and will try to enlarge the bolt holes next time. I worry a little about damaging the valve or valve seat with the wire method.

 

The Yamaha factory tool is long unavailable.

The "genuine" aftermarket version is made by Motion Pro; it's the one that is available pretty much everywhere. The one I used in my how-to is a Motion Pro I got from Amazon.

Unfortunately, there are "Motion Pro replicas" out there, usually sold on eBay, that are a very poor copy indeed.

I discovered that after buying a very convincing counterfeit Motion Pro control lever off eBay and comparing it to a GENUINE Motion Pro part with the same part number. A quick email to Motion Pro confirmed that they do have a "counterfeiter" problem.

The genuine MP tool is a bit of a tight fit; I suspect their powder-coater gets a bit over-zealous. But it should work if used correctly.

Silver dollars won't fit; if you're in that much of a bind I will mail you a used shim fercryinoutloud. PM with email address.

The tool does take some technique to get right; I covered that in "Part Deux." The predicament you're in is one of the reasons I recommended the use of a piece of #12 (not #14) solid copper house wire with the insulation still on it.

I would not loosen the cams at this point. I would take Polock's suggestion, and put something NON-MARRING (like a hunk of zip-tie) between the cam and shim, (or cam and bucket) and get the zip-tie out.

If you can get access, you can use a stout piece of wood to push the edge of the bucket down enough to get a shim back in there. I'm thinking hammer handle with some customization at the tip.

My how-tos were done on a 550 Seca. I highly recommend using "the tool" as long as it's a real one. It should say MP and 08-0020 on it. Any different version of the number would indicate a counterfeit.

You need to get this down. You'll need to do it again in 5K miles. But you CANNOT accomplish it in less-than-relaxed conditions. I recommend early morning, bright lighting and lots of coffee.

Back off, take a deep breath, and re-approach. After about the third time, it's like falling off a log. Blindfolded.

 

Don't dig the hole any deeper.

Live by the Number-1 RULE of Maintenance and Repairs to Vintage Motors.

"Don't do anything that will make a bad situation, ... worse!"

Put-out an A-P-B for the right Tool.
Don't work in the HEAT.

 

Can someone point me to the write up On doing this?

 

Here's the update: a local shop provided us with a 25mm shim. I was able to place that in, rotate the lobe onto it, and (drum roll please...) extract out that twist tie. Hurrah.

To reply to Fitz's point, yes, the tool we were using is stamped with MP 08-0020. I mean, after a certain number of times trying to make it work, you go back to the wire method, ya know? But I think maybe I'll actually go get the solid 12 gauge wire to see if that works better for me. The part I don't like about this the most is that you can't do this alone. I'm a loner and a rebel.

Happy 4th everyone!

 

Hey Wire. Don't give up on the bucket tool. You can take a chainsaw file and enlarge the holes (or a dremel with the small od grinding stone!) and get the tool to line up properly. The objective is to get the tip of the tool in the center of the bucket, not necessarily centered on the cam lobe. I found that on my 750, on the #4 intake and exhaust, that it was a little inset toward #3 th hold the bucket properly.

I practiced a little bit just checking the clearance before I actually ordered any shims for mine. In doing this, I found the best position for the tool. Fortunately, I did not have to modify my tool for it to work, and it is the one I got from Chacal. When I ordered my shims, (had to shim all 4 exhaust) it only took me 35 minutes with the tool, to change all of the shims, recheck the clearances and button the valve cover back up. I attribute this to studying Fitz tutorial, and making sure of the alignment and fit of the tool on the buckets before I tried to remove anything.

 

What ARE you talking about? You can most certainly do it alone; provided you use the tool. You only need "3 hands" if you're using the "wire down the hole" method.

Guys, this is a simple maintenance procedure. It just takes a bit of precision and patience; and understanding what you're trying to accomplish. It needs to be done every 5000 miles. So trust me, once you've logged 15K or 20K you'll have had enough practice to do it blindfolded.

Personally, I prefer the cool of the early morning, a quiet, well-lit workspace, some strong coffee and plenty of allotted time. It always requires care, no matter how familiar you become with it.

Mook raised a good point; and I'll be editing the "zip-tie" article shortly. I hadn't realized that manufacturing differences between models could also mean some slightly off-center cam lobes. I need to stress that the "centering on the lobe" is just a starting point; and if your lobe is off-center in relation to the bucket, some offset adjustment may be required.

Getting the tip of the tool centered on the bucket is paramount to getting it to hold the bucket down.

I'm beginning to wonder if Motion Pro's tooling isn't beginning to wear out; or they're using a different vendor. I've had my MP bucket tool for nearly five years, and haven't had a problem with it (once I figured out how to use it.) I did not have to clean up the holes; but it is admittedly a tight fit on some positions.

 

Like the man said, you can totally do this alone. I did it alone using wire tie method. The thing about a big folded over zip tie is that it wants to spread out a little. That's *good* because you can stick the bent folded end in the spark holes, let the outside two ends push out against sides, and it won't go anywhere when you go to the other side to turn motor.

Also, I found that once the valve is held down, the only hard thing was getting ahold of the shim and moving it out from under cam, the bucket itself went down pretty easy. I used a thin screwdriver, a dental pick, and some weird needle nose pliers I have that are tiny and the tips are bent at 45 degrees.