HOW TO: Test your starter circuit

Gamurur, your information was excellent. Searched the forum and this thread came up as a result.

Found the problem with my bike-starter relay. Saved me a lot of time.

Thanks again,

-MaximXJ

 

Hello, New to the forum, and not a good "rench turner"..My xj700X, won't start, after riding a few miles. Starter or solenoid will "click", and sometimes will startup, but I can let it sit overnight, and it will turn the motor over although not very robustly, and fire up fine. New battery, and it started good for a couple of months after the battery repalced. Seems like when it is started in the am it is fine, but the motor heat kills the starter is this possible?..I read and re-read the testing the starter circuit, but, I'm not very good with a test meter, would appreciate an educated guess as to my trouble.. thanks for any responses..

 

Just picked up a 83 Maxim for cheap, but could not start it first since there was no battery. I picked up a battery at Sears (type 14L-A2). filled the cells and charged it at least 4 hours per instructions. Installed the battery and cranking over engine over. I hear the solenoid clicking and the starter trying to run when I turn on the ignition key and hit the start button, but it's not cranking the engine. Holding in the clutch doesn't help. Kickstand is up. Could the engine be seized. No foot crank so I'm not sure how to crank the engine by hand. Rear tire is flat and will not hold air, so I couldn't push start it. Is it OK to push start shaft drives? Manual is in the mail, so I'm relying on this forum for information in the mean time. By the way, what's the trick to removing the rear wheel so I can deal with the flat tire.

 

ok got a question. i think Ive pinpointed it down to my starter solenoid. I just want to make sure. I have 12.7v at the battery. I go to hit the starter button and the starter solenoid clicks but wont turn the starter. I short the starter solenoid posts with a screw driver and it starts no problem. does this mean the starter solenoid is bad?
also, i have traced the blue/white wire from the starter button back through the bike and all connections are good.
I would appreciate any help
BTW this how to thread is GREAT!! I now have something to do to my bike without completely ripping it apart.
thanks
joshw

 

If it starts when you short the solenoid then it is probably your problem...

 

12.7 Volts don't mean nothing!
There's almost 10 Volts in a Smoke Detector Battery!

You need AMPS to Crank the Starter.
See if the Battery passes a Load Test.

Charge it full.
Bring it to a Garage or Auto parts Store.
See what it has in terms of Cranking Amps!

 

The Amp Hour rating tells you how much amperage is available when discharged evenly over a 20 hour period. The amp hour rating is cumulative, so in order to know how many constant amps the battery will output for 20 hours, you have to divide the amp hour rating by 20. Example: If a battery has an amp hour rating of 75, dividing by 20 = 3.75. Such a battery can carry a 3.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts. (10.5 volts is the fully discharged level, at which point the battery needs to be recharged.) A battery with an amp hour rating of 55 will carry a 2.75 amp load for 20 hours before dropping to 10.5 volts.
Ergo, we need to ask is your battery fit for purpose?

 

Wiz, you frighten me sometimes...

The "checks ok for continuity but won't carry enough juice to do anything" has bit me a couple of times.

 

i have charged the battery to 100% using a maintenance free charger and a battery that was made for motorcycles. load test at auto zone says the battery is "like new, you shouldn't have a problem starting".
ha if only he knew
ok so my battery checks out but still same problem
?solenoid?
thanks for the help

 

Guys all good advice but he said it clicks but won't start - starts fine if he shorts the solenoid. So battery is fine

Its the solenoid. Josh there is a lot of current passes through the solenoid and it tends to arc. If you took it apart ( not easy) you would see the contacts are pitted and blackened. You can file them clean but you have to unsolder the tiny wires which break easy to get it apart. I got a used one off ebay and it works great. I also repaired my old one. It is a pain.

 

My money's on Bill's diagnosis. If you performed step three on the previous page and the starter still didn't crank, the solenoid is most certainly bad and needs to be replaced.

 

hey guys thanks for the help, once again the xj forums have given me transportation.
"one fresh solenoid commin' up!"

 

Gamaru,

great write-up, but there is an error that cost me several hours of frustration. On the XJ650, the starter cut-off relay is under the gas tank, not under the rectifier. The one under the rectifier is something else completely

 

I've been told that depending on which bike, model, and year your relay's location will vary. Sorry about the frustration and loss of time. I'll edit the original post to warn future readers about the pitfall.

 

ALL RELAYS, ALL THE TIME, OR.....:

How to tell one small can-style relay from another:



Headlight Latching Relays:

hlr1) OEM headlight system HEADLIGHT RELAY. This relay prevents the headlight from coming on while the starter motor is being engaged, thus allowing maximum battery voltage to be used by the starter and the ignition system. However, it is dependant on voltage draw in order to energize and "latch" into the on position, and thus if the engine gets spinning fast enough during the starting process (whether the engine fires or not), enough voltage will be produced by the alternator (which increases its output with RPM's) to clamp this relay, and thus pass current to the headlamp. Also, once latched on, on some models the headlight circuit remains on until the ignition switch is turned fully off.....thus, if you (for example) stall the bike, and hit the starter button, this relay will remain latched and the headlight WILL remain lit during the starting process. Only by turning the key to the off position can you de-energize this relay (and thus turn the headlight off).

Identification: The Headlight Relay is a small square metal "can" relay, and has a small yellow paint "dot" or yellow locking tab, and has the following 4 wires connected to it:

- XJ550 all models and XJ650 all models except Turbo: a solid black wire, a solid white wire, a blue wire with a black tracer stripe, and a red wire with a yellow tracer stripe.

- XJ750 Seca models: a solid black wire, a white wire with a blue tracer stripe, a blue wire with a black tracer stripe, and a red wire with a yellow tracer stripe.

NOTE: original relays were always a square metal can style, although they may have been replaced by an automotive style plastic relay.




ssr1) OEM safety system SIDESTAND SAFETY SWITCH RELAY.

Identification: The Sidestand Safety Switch Relay is a small square metal "can" relay, has a blue paint "dot" by the locking tab, and has the following 4 wires connected to it:

- XJ550 all models, 1982-84 XJ650 all model, XJ700 all models, XJ750 all models, XJ900RK Seca models, and XJ1100 models: a solid black wire, a red wire with a white tracer stripe, a black wire with a white tracer stripe, and a blue wire with a yellow tracer stripe.

NOTE: original relays were always a square metal can style, although they may have been replaced by an automotive style plastic relay.






nss1) OEM safety system NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH RELAY. This relay is also called a starting circuit cut-off relay or an ignition cut-off relay, depending which manual you are reading!

Identification: The Neutral Safety Switch Relay is a small square metal "can" relay, has no paint "dot" by the locking tab, and has the following 4 wires connected to it:

- XJ550 all models, XJ650 all model, XJ750 all models, and XJ1100: a solid light blue wire, a red wire with a white tracer stripe, another red wire with a white tracer stripe, and a black wire with a yellow tracer stripe.

- XJ900RK Seca models: two solid light blue wires ganged together into one terminal slot, two red wires with a white tracer stripe ganged together into one terminal slot, a white wire with a red tracer stripe, and a black wire with a yellow tracer stripe.

NOTE: original relays were always a square metal can style, although they may have been replaced by an automotive style plastic relay. THIS RELAY IS A SPECIALIZED DESIGN AND THE USE OF A STANDARD RELAY IS DANGEROUS!-----it will allow the safety function to be defeated and could result in different operation from what is intended.





Turn Signal Relays and Cancellers:

tsrs1) OEM turn signal system FLASHER and SELF-CANCELLER RELAY. In order to design a "self-canceling" turn signal system, Yamaha chose to use a simple but very different style turn signal Flasher than what is used in almost all other vehicle applications. Of course, the unique design of this flasher unit makes it, let's say, "pricey" to say the least! However, if you want your self-canceling feature to work then you'll have to use this original flasher. NOTE: you can use generic aftermarket mechanical or solid-state flashers in place of the original flasher, but the aftermarket flashers will prevent the self-canceller feature from operating.

Also, if you substitute LED bulbs in your turn signals for the standard incandescent bulbs, then the stock flasher (which is mechanical) will not see enough of an electrical load to be able to flash correctly, if at all. In such a situation, the stock flasher is not defective, it is just designed to operate at a much higher voltage draw than LED lights provide. In such a situation, you would have to replace the stock flasher with an aftermarket solid-state flasher, which will also defeat the self-canceller feature of the original system.

Identification: The Flasher is contained in a large, rectangular black hard-plastic "box" housing, and has the following 3 wires connected to it: a solid brown wire, a brown wire with a white tracer stripe, and a yellow wire with a green tracer stripe. This applies to all models except XJ700 models. NOTE: except for the XJ700 models, all XJ550, 650, 750, 900RK, and 1100 models used the same flasher internals, BUT, the plastic external "case" (which is removable, by the way) differs by the location of the mounting "tab" or "hook": the 550/1100 models have the hook on the TOP of the plastic case, while the 650/760/900 models have the hook on the big, flat "side" of the case.

The Self-Canceller Relay is a rectangular, sealed, rubber-coated box with 6 wires coming out of it into a connector: a solid tan wire, two (2) white wires with a green tracer stripe, a yellow wire with a green tracer stripe, a yellow wire with a red tracer stripe, and a white wire with a red tracer stripe.

By the way, the self-canceller operates off both time AND distance measurements to determine when it should cancel the flashers.....a minimum of 10 seconds time and 150 meters (about 400 feet) distance. BOTH criteria must be met before the canceller releases the signal flasher.




Finally, note that the entire bike's "safety" system (depending on model) is made up of the sidestand SWITCH, the sidestand safety RELAY, the neutral SWITCH, the neutral switch RELAY, the clutch hand lever position SWITCH, and a DIODE BLOCK or two to run the whole shooting match.



Also, some people refer to the STARTER SOLENOID as a STARTER RELAY, and either one is correct, since within that one unit is both a relay and a solenoid, but of course there is no mistaking this round fellow for one of the square style relays.

 

I believe that on my 650, the one under the rectifier, is the headlight latching relay. The relay has the yellow "locking tab" although it doesn't really lock.

I was a bit confused working on the starter (cut-off) relay. Having two matching red/white wires, I wasn't sure which one to test per the instructions, so I just tested them both. <grin>

 

Just remember, you identify the RELAY by what color paint dot (or no color at all) is present on or around the tab.

You identify the CIRCUIT by seeing what combination of wire colors are present at the connector.

Many of these can-style relays will physically fasten into another circuits connector.

A more logical fail-safe approach would have been to use different shaped terminal for each unique relay, so there could be no accidental "interchanging" of them.

 

I know this is an old thread, but It has great info and this is an issue I am currently dealing with. My bike has a peculiar problem, with multiple parts, which I'm not sure if they are linked together or not. On some occasions, the starter will not engage at all and I have to mash the starter button to get it to do anything. When this happens, it will act like the switch is dirty/corroded and needs some care. Other times, it will engage the starter and the starter will stay engaged long after I release the button. Sometimes even after the bike has started. When this happens, it makes no difference what I do. I can shut off the kill switch, turn off the key, mash the starter button in case it is stuck, nothing stops it. It will randomly stop itself once its done having its fit.

I have replaced the starter switch internals from an extra horn switch I had laying around and it did not change the constant engagement, but seems to have helped the intermittent lack of response. I also pulled the solenoid and hook up a jumper to both terminals. It clicks and releases as I make contact as normal. I originally thought it was the solenoid, but now I'm not sure. Anyone have some guidance on how I can disassemble it and clean it? Or a better idea on what it could be?

 

It's the solenoid - get a new one for around $20.00

If you tap on it while it's stuck "closed", it should release.
Internally, the plunger is making a welded contact that the spring is supposed to overcome. Everything is dirty in there and it can't conveniently be cleaned.

 

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you for the help. In the mean time, is there a way to open it up and clean it out? I have read that a few people on here have done it, but I cant find any how to. I will order one, but I JUST got it legal yesterday, I would like to ride it this weekend. Maybe I will just rig something safe until I can.