Ignitor rant

Hi all, I'm glad i found this forum, i picked up an 82 550 maxim and it needs work. I've already figured out a few things from this board but I'm still being plagued by the damn ignitor. the first one i popped open and it had a fried wire, so i got one from ebay for $20, they claim it came of a working bike. I plug it in and only one coil will fire. i switched the wires to the coils, so then the other coil fired. i checked the pickup and it reads the correct resistance. So i guess im asking: are there tests for checking the ignitor, the book says to take it to the shop.

 

Hummm... swapped wires and the other side fires. Sounds like a pickup problem to me. If the ignitor was involved the problem wouldn't go away! Make sure you are using a high impedance ohmmeter to ohm out the pickups. I prefer my old analog meters, better for such things really. The new cheap disposable digital meters are anyones guess for accuracy, unless you have them checked at a calibration facility. I use them just to make sure there is voltage and resistance in a curcuit, but I don't count on their accuracy at all. Get your self a good meter and check that pickup coil again. Which book are you using? My Haines shows the schematic quite clearly and gives good instruction on how to follow it out. If you don't have one, get one. Let us know were you are with all of this and we'll muddle through this. Cheers.

 

My Haynes manual only states that "Yamaha does not produce any test figures for the TCI unit, so a faulty unit should be checked by eliminating all other possible causes." If your pickup coils are both within the 700 ohm spec and all your wire connectors are clean and secure, it suggests the TCI unit may be your problem. I would also check the voltage, the resistance of the coils, and check all the grounds to eliminate any other possibilities.
I've had these sites bookmarked just in case and may help you.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7795/
click on link to XJ Electrical FAQ then to item #7 Ignition
This link has no real troubleshooting info... just check voltage at red wire!

http://members.tripod.com/dave_jack/id41.htm
This is a more technical description of the electronics inside the "box" and may be of interest if you want to open one up.

 

Thanks guys, I've only got the Clymer's right now, and the forums. I'll check the pick up again, and just do some more investigation.

 

Mr. Nick is right TMS11, I confused the TCI with some other components. I am mortified. Back to the problem. The TCI acts as a high speed switch for the voltage supplied to create the field collapse in the coils, which must occur at exactly the right time. If you have ohmed out the coils and the pickups and they read out correctly, the TCI must be suspect (although I very seriously doubt it unless there has been some manner of disturbance of the TCI and associated wiring. My experience has always found bad pickups, but not on my Yamahas). The pickup must be providing the pulse from both sides of the pickup, there are two pickups, one for each set of coils (the Yamaha folks use what is called a "wasted spark" method for their ignition arrangement. I believe that this process is outlined in the Haynes as well. Help me out here Nick, I can't find my manual!). Both pickups supply the pulse when the reluctor (tip of the timing plate) swings past the pickup. This pulse travels through the Orange and the Grey wires from your pickup assembly (according to the schematic on the website Nick provided http://members.tripod.com/dave_jack/id41.htm). Make sure they ohm out from end to end on the TCI side of the connector, this checks out the associated wiring up to that point (so your ohming out between the Orange and black as well as the Grey and black wires, within the 700 ohms specified. In this instance less resistance is good, but not too much. Also check for isolation to ground for each). Once this is done, lets ohm out the TCI to the coils. Go to the second connector on the TCI and ohm out between the same colors (you have the two connectors for the TCI, input and output. Ohm them to the pickup or coils to establish which it is, the schematic I'm looking at doesn't specify). These ohm values should be about 2 to 3 ohms max (relying on memory here, please forgive, check your book), if they are not those specs or less in ohmic value, check the coils at the connectors located next to the coils. If they still ohm out bad, replace coils. Next, if the coils ohm out good, the TCI is the only component left, rendering your verdict. Word of experience here, I have in practice found more pickups ohm out good but fail under heat, check the pickups at temperature or with an inductive pickup such as a timing light. If you see an erratic flashing on the light (usually synchronized with corresponding stuttering in the engine), the pickups are bad. Hope this helps somewhat. Again, my humble apologies to all concerned for the misinformation.

 

I found another site that's got lot's of info and troubleshooting guide, but it's for a different model of bike - Yamaha Vision XZ550.
However as stated in the first paragraph, " much of this info applies to any ignition / charging / electrical system ". I found the links in the table of contents don't work so you have to scroll thru the article. I found it very informative and may help you!

http://www.xz550.net/tci_english.htm#a7p2

 

Wow! Great score Nick, that site is chock full of info! TMS11, this site outlines a great trouble shooting plan and almost all the information is valid for your bike (you've got 4 cylinders vice the two mentioned but the concepts are sound!). Every bit is useful insight. I'm bookmarking this one! Hey Nick, let's get this site on our links page, it will help out quite a few and educate many!

 

Yes Robert the wasted spark is talked about in Chapter 3 of the Haynes manual. It is also talked about in the last link I supplied, see articles 11.2 , 11.21 , and 11.22.

Article 12.1 goes into a power on test for the TCI as follows:

Pull the plug wires, attach a bolt/screw into each and put near engine to watch for spark, turn on ignition, turn kill switch off, this should cause the plug wires to spark.

 

Good idea Robert, I just submitted it.

 

thanks again guys. I've narrowed it down the ignitor. i pulled the wires from the pick up and attached them one at a time in both positions on the ignitor. this resulted in a firing coil from both orange and grey wires, but only in one position on the ignitor. So anyone know where to get a cheap ignitor? my dealer said they were discontinued but offered me one for $500 (with a laugh)! and the ones on ebay are about $90, i guess i "lucked out" on the first one i bought, too bad it doesnt work. and last question, will any of the other model ignitors work in place of the xj550's? Thanks a ton!

CDI part # TID14-05 4U8-10

 

tms11, I would be checking out ebay, or local salvage yards to see if you can find one. I would suggest that you look for one with the same numbers as you have. These units look after the spark advance for the engine speed and you may end up with problems not getting the same unit. I guess you don't want to rip into yours looking for a bad solder joint or something that may be a simple repair? The way I look at it, it's not working now, so you can't wreck it much more, but may be able to fix it!

 

yeah I'm gonna open it up. one of them there is clearly a fried wire and i think thats a bigger problem than just a loose wire, a short somewhere. but the other is partially working so possibly something is just loose, one of those links goes about it pretty clearly so i'll give it a shot.

 

How about a GM HEI module?
About $20.00 at any auto parts store.
The resistance of the pickup matches the one on the bike and if the coils don't match the HEI module will fire a GM coil pack ( 91 Buick Century 3.1l) . The HUGE bonus of all this is easily replaceable spark plug wires!
Any wire with an HEI terminal on one end and a plug boot on the other will work ( NO solid core though!). A spiral wound wire ( I like Taylor Thundervolt 8.2 or Spiro Pro )would be best as it gives a much stronger spark and may allow more plug gap too!
Call me @ Summit Racing's Tech line ( 330-630-0240 ask for Tom) and I can fix you up with the goodies. I work 11a to 9p eastern weekdays but not on wednesdays.
The whole shootin' match will cost less than 2 used ignitors and even less if your coils match up ( I need the primary resistance to know for sure ).

P.S. Rick and co. Is this O.K. to do? I mean sending contact info?

 

I've seen new TCI units made in New Zealand on ebay. See this link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAHA-F ... dZViewItem

Titled HYPERPAK PERFORMANCE IGNITION.

Buy it now price of US$165.