Is this a starter clutch problem or what?

I'd have the opportunity to buy a '82 Maxim 750 that seems to be in great shape according to pictures and what the seller says. Only problem (according to the seller): when the engine is cold the starter mostly doesn't catch and spins free, but when it catches, the engine starts up easily.

The seller says this problem disapears when the engine is cold.

Is this a starter clutch problem or simply a starter problem? I own a '83 Maxim 750 with a bad engine but with a good starter, so I could swap starters, but I don't feel like buying anoter bike to end up splitting the cases.

Bike for sale has 81 K kilometers.

 

Pics are always appreciated, here is a link

http://tinyurl.com/koqcyzv

Only two of them show the bike for sale, the ones with the 03-03-2013 date.

 

With 81K kliks on it, it could be. Better chance of it actually being the starter clutch itself than on a much-lower mileage example, BUT...

It could also be a weak starter or simply the wrong oil, as you well know.

That fact that it comes and goes tends to indicate one of the simple causes.

 

Bigfitz

I'm not sure I understand why and/or how a weak starter would give up or disengage when the engine is cold and not when the engine is hot...please explain with more details. Is it just because a cold engine is a bit harder to crank?

How big of a job is it to swap starters? IS it just like two bolts and bingo?

 

Because the starter is cold too, and if it's gummed up it won't want to work until it gets warmed up either.

Generally two bolts and one big cable connection; however it may not "bingo" immediately for you. The nose of the starter fits straight and precisely into the case casting, and has a fine o-ring on it. Sometimes the starter may not want to be pulled out all that easily; some Japanese profanity may be required.

Like I said; starter clutches do fail. Rarely, but they do occasionally fail by cracking at the edges of the roller cavities in the housing. They also will eventually wear out, but we're talking serious high mileage before that happens unless the bike was abused. But when they truly fail, they aren't generally intermittent. Just failed.

But we also know, from experience after experience of members with starter engagement issues that running the correct oil can play a significant role although some bikes are seemingly more sensitive than others. That can probably be attributed to varying degrees of wear in the sprag clutch, and/or varying degrees of starter health.

If the starter itself is weak or sluggish, it won't cause the sprag to grab tightly like it should, and it either slips, disengages, or makes it sound like the starter clutch IS broken.

But if the problem goes away when the bike warms up, then the starter clutch itself is probably fine. In most cases of incorrect oil, it happens hot and works ok cold. A truly broken-up starter clutch never works fine. Hot or cold, it acts up.

Because fixing a broken starter clutch means case-splitting time, the only logical approach is to ensure that all of the other possibilities have been eliminated first and pay close attention to the behavioral aspects of the problem for clues that it may lie elsewhere.

 

All right , thanks a lot.

Obviously, I'll have to make sure the starter works properly when engine is hot, not just assume what the seller says is the truth.

I understand that if it works properly when hot, I could begin with an oil change and see if it has any good effect, and if not then swap starters.

I could make it my own for 550$. Sounds fair to me.

 

I just looked closely at the pics of the bike.

You can tell a lot about the owner from the bike.

Without getting into brutal details, this guy doesn't have a clue; or the guy before him didn't and this guys knows even less. I don't think it's a matter of truth vs. lying; he honestly has no clue, trust me.

My bet is wrong oil.

Do a compression test and buy it. Or just buy it, for that price you could part it out and easily double your money. Looks like it has a lot of potential but it's gonna need the usual stuff.

BTW, it has a lot of "Midnight Special" looking parts on it. I don't think it started out as a Midnight Special, more like somebody went to a lot of trouble "Midnighting" it with all the gold accents.

 

My eyes are not as accurate as yours so I'd like to know what are the details that tells you this guy has no clue?

 

• The Gas Cap is chrome.
• The Seat Surround is not Gold-colored.
• The Upper-section of the Fork Tubes has no Black Accent Piece.
• The Engine Cases and Covers are unpainted.
• The Accent Pieces on the Side Covers look rattle-canned.
• No Airbox Accent Pieces.

 

That is the starter clutch, walk away. The problem with a worn s/c can be intermittent, if the 3 rollers wear oval they can find a spot where they will grip.

 

Wiz, you think 81K kilometers is enough "mileage" for it to be seriously worn? I've been talking in terms of the cracked body thing since that's only a little over 50K miles. As in, either outright broken or not.

If it's "consistently intermittent" then I wholeheartedly agree. But if it clears up altogether and works 100% fine every time as long as the bike is warm it could be something else.

 

Mileage alone means nothing unless you know, for sure, the maintenance regime that has been applied to the machine, think about 10 miles without oil.

 

let's add to that:

the pipes are not black
the mufflers are not black
the fenders are not black
the headlight should be round
the turn signals should be round and black
the seat is not a Midnight seat
the rims are not gold and black
the handlebars are clip-on rather than black buckhorns
the gauges are not the round pod type
the backrest pad is not correct

what little Gold is there, is sprayed on. It is not the shiney gold-tone 'chrome' that should be there.

the emblem on the tank is at the wrong angle
the lower forks should be black
the swingarm covers should be gold, not chrome
the mirrors should be black
the headlight bracket should be black
the rear brake cover should be black with a gold stripe
the foot peg mounts should be black with a gold stripe
Midnight Maxim did not have the aux. headlight

That's what I see from just this side pic...... probably other things, too.

Obviously a regular xj750 Maxim that someone started to make sort of look like a Midnight Maxim but didn't put any real Midnight Maxim parts on it. UNLESS....it was a frame from a Midnight maxim that someone got a hold of and decided to build a bike out of it with whatever parts were available and would slowly turn back into a real Midnight...........unlikely, though.

Still, probably a good deal. Could be a good platform for a build.

Dave Fox

 

Ah, now I understand why you mean the guy doesn't have a clue, it was about the partial Midnight look!

Actually, I don't care about those gold accents. The bike is obviously a Maxim, not a Midnight, and it would be very easy to remove that gold paint and get back to stock look.

The most important thing is the starter issue, and the way I understand Wizard explanation, if the starter acts intermittently (let's say 1 time out of 10) even when engine is warm, it is clearly a starter clutch issue.

Does that sound right?

 

If it truly doesn't change between cold and warm then yes.

Maybe this will help. Here's a pic of the assembly we're discussing that I lifted off the internet.



And here's how it works:



Now then: If the one in the subject bike is cracked as in the photo then it is broken and that's that.

If the rollers are worn so that they aren't round anymore, but the body isn't cracked, then it will still engage intermittently, as Wiz pointed out.

If the starter clutch is fine, and the starter is weak or gummed up, then it can exhibit similar symptoms; as can using the wrong oil.

If operation is truly still intermittent, warm or cold, then it does tend to indicate a mechanical issue such as worn rollers. But it's really impossible to tell without servicing the starter and changing the oil and seeing if it affects the issue.

Based on the mileage, unless the guy tells you it has car oil in it, I'd probably go with Wiz on this one, unless you need a parts bike.

 

I will ask the guy about the engine oil that was used, but the seller is not the present owner, so I'm not sure I will get an answer I can rely on.

I also have a line on an engine that is supposed to be good enough to replace the one in my non-running Maxim, I could get this engine with plenty of goodies for 100$.