Jump start with a car?

So i tried to jump my bike in the cold with my jeep liberty. i have a 81 maxim 550. it worked before. this time, it would sound like it was trying but wouldn't turn over. then a little smoke came up from the rubber coating burning off some hot wires.

is this potentially something serious? what might happen now? i realize it probably wasn't a good idea but i was desperate and stranded. i was waiting to try and start again after i buy a new battery in case the only problem is mine being shot.

 

oh yeah...and the car was running...and i attached both points of the cables to the car and bike.

 

uh oh, you let the magic smoke out . . . .

 

How cold is "cold"? I do that almost every year to start the bikes in the spring with no problem. Sounds like your starter sort of sticking

 

I thought only old British bikes used magic smoke? Supposedly the Japanese engineers developed a higher density industrial smoke which is less likely to leak out, which is why they pushed the British bikes out of the market back in the 70's.

 

They add Seafoam to it....it not only freshens gas, it's also a smoke thickener.

 

Man, Seafoam does everything! I wonder if I drink it daily would it prevent thinning hair, too?

On topic, I wouldn't run the engine of the car when jumping a bike. 12v is 12v no matter the source, but a car alternator (when running) is pushing 60A or so and the smaller components and wiring present in a motorcycle harness isn't really sized to handle that kind of load. Thus, things start to heat up and sizzle. Expensive things. Things that aren't made anymore.

 

I haven't had any problem doing that.... Running or not

 

Man you are just all kinds of contradictory today, aren't you?
For the record, I have jumped a bike with car while the engine was running, too. I just said I don't recommend it, especially since I did it on a modern bike with electronic components I could walk to dealership and replace. If that risk doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother me as it's not my bike.

 

No, I'm not.

 

That was one of my favorite episodes back when I was in college!!

 

So you're saying that it might not just be my battery that can be ruined from such a thing but something else as well? Something more important? In going to put a new battery in it today and see what happens. If that doesn't work, what else should I look at?

 

It was about 20-23 degrees (Fahrenheit). out. And like I said, I did it once the day before and it started right up. Second time I tried, it didn't work. Starter sticking? Is that a -I should replace it- issue? Or a -tinker with what I got- issue?

 

Whenever you jump a bike, you dont want the car to be running. XJ batteies are rated to like 165 cold cranking amps. But the standard car battery is rated around 600. So its already overkill without the car running and putting out way more.

What do you mean by this? What did it sound like?

 

I would guess under normal circumstances, like hogfiddles said, it shouldn't cause a problem. But if there is a problem with the starter or something is jammed and the system tries to draw more current than it can handle then things will start to fry. Maybe your starter developed a problem, etc .. With the bike's battery lower amperage it is limited on how much it can draw. I would guess you can damage some of your wiring or maybe the regulator / rectifier using the car to jump it. I prefer charging the old battery with a proper 2 amp or less charger and then trying to push start the bike instead, if the battery can't do the job on its own.

 

Came across this FYI porper way to boost.


Getting Started

Tools You`ll Need:

• Jumper Cables
• Hand & Eye Protection
• A Functioning Car Battery to provide the boost

Make Safety Your Top Priority
Every vehicle is different. When it comes to maintenance and repairs, always follow the vehicle's owner's manual.

Safety should be your number one priority. Don't smoke, drink alcoholic beverages, or wear a necktie while working on the car. Watch out for hot objects, sharp instruments, hazardous materials and other potential safety hazards in and around your workspace.


Don't work with a Philips when the job calls for a flat. Substituting tools can compromise your safety or your vehicle's performance.


Finally, when the fun turns to frustration, or if the job requires specialized knowledge beyond your capabilities, please do not attempt it yourself. Talk to a Parts Pro or seek the assistance of a professional mechanic or installer. The last thing we want is someone getting hurt.


Before you Begin
The three major reasons for getting a dead battery in the first place:

• • Leaving your lights on
  • Not maintaining your battery properly with the correct water levels (for older maintenance batteries)
  • Breakdown of the diode bridge or voltage regulator in your alternator

Of course, some people get a bad starter, but the odds of that are low compared to the other causes.



Now, a few precautions:

Line both cars up so the batteries are as close as can be. Make sure the cars are in park and that both cars are turned off and not touching each other before you connect the cables.


Make sure all headlights, blinkers, car radios and A/C's are off, and cell phones are unplugged. Unplug all accessories from cigarette lighters and other power sockets from both cars.

Jump-starting a battery can crank 300+ volts through your system and the transients can destroy equipment. These voltage spikes are caused by inrush current into the inductances in your electrical system


Familiarize yourself with the Positive (+) and Negative (-) terminals of both car batteries so you know exactly which one is which. All batteries are clearly marked so if you can't find it, it's probably under 1/8" of caked-on corrosion around the terminals. Wipe off any battery acid that may have leaked.


IMPORTANT: If the battery is cracked and liquid is leaking out, DO NOT go any further! Bite the bullet and go buy another battery and swap it out. If you try to jump start a battery with a crack in it, it will explode.


Try to clean off any corrosion around the dead battery terminals. If you have tools, loosen the wires from the terminals, clean them off, and then re-tighten the wires to the shiny posts. Corroded posts prevent the power from getting through the cables and into your battery to revive it. If you have a file handy, try to file the metal battery posts until they are nice and shiny. In a pinch use pliers to clamp down and scrape off corrosion too as the metal is somewhat soft.


Usually the Positive(+) battery cable is red or orange, and usually the Negative (-) or ground cable is black, but always check to be sure.

STEPS FOR Connecting the Car Battery Jumper Cables

• 1:
  The cables must be connected in the exact order listed below. If possible, wear personal protective equipment such as eyewear and gloves, as batteries can be dangerous.
• 2:
  Connect one end of the Positive(+) cable to the Positive(+) post of the dead battery.
• 3:
  Connect the other end of the Positive(+) cable to the Positive(+) post of the good battery.
• 4:
  Connect one end of the Negative(-) cable to the Negative(-) post of the good battery.
• 5:
  Connect the other end of the Negative(-) cable to a good solid SHINY, NON PAINTED metal part of the engine on the dead car. Usually a giant shiny nut on the engine block will do. A painted, dirty, or oily nut will not work. You usually want to avoid placing the Negative(-) cable directly on the dead battery to minimize the chance for explosions. You should only use the ground post on the dead battery as a last resort. On this step you'll get a normal spark as you connect the ground and complete the circuit

Note placing the negative ground to car.

 

Should make no difference whether a car battery is used as long as above is adhered to, make sure the angine can turn manually first.
Just overhauled starter motor on my XJ 550 after similar issue.
Stopped before smoke though!!!
Previous post stating that 12 volts is 12 volts is spot on and you could use a John deere tractor battery and it would not make any difference unless you have a fault like a sticking starter \ siezed engine which would draw excess amperage and thus the heating of the wires. At this point a larger battery would prolong the draw as it will have larger ampere hour rating but it will still be 12 volts.

 

What I've done before in this situation is "primed" the battery a bit - basically connect the positive but hook up the negative to the frame. With the car running - try cranking the bike a few times. Don't leave it like this for more than 2-3 mins.

I recommend you don't wear any protective clothing at all and smoke copious amounts of whatever you can during the process. Being excessively drunk also tends to help.

 

I think there are several different things at play when starting a motorcycle off of a car:

1. 12V is 12V, but the amount of impedance is very different between a motorcycle and car battery. Therefore, when you put on 100A load from the starter, the motorcycle battery might drop to 9-10V, but the car battery will drop 10-11V. Even on a motorcycle battery, you aren't supposed to run the starter for more than a few seconds at a time or it can overheat. With a car battery, that can happen faster. CONCLUSION - works fine if you don't lay on the starter for minutes, which you might be doing if you've got other reasons (fuel/spark) that are preventing you from starting.
2. Running Car - from a quick search, it's likely the Rectifier/Regulator, or the wiring therein that gets fried. Again, 14V may be 14V from the car charging system, but you have to think about how the motorcycle charging system is supposed to work

The alternator on our motorcycles work by cycling system voltage (brown wire) across the electro magnets of the the rotor. This produces a magnetic field that varies based on the duty cycle of that input (I believe it's the green and brown wires from the RR). The stator picks up this magnetic field and converts it into 3 phase AC (3 white wires), which then get rectified by the RR into a DC voltage. This voltage is applied directly to the battery (red wire).

When it's just your battery and charging system in the loop, everything it fine. The RR tries to maintain a voltage of 14.5V, and the battery chemistry wants to be <13VOC. Due to impedance on the battery, if your RR is puts out more and more power, until it reaches 14.8 V, then cuts power until is reaches 14.3 (caused by the battery VOC being lower) and keeps cycling between the two, based off of the voltage it reads.

Now put another alternator in the loop, and run cables that will likely drop the voltage that the RR will see. Lets say it sees 14V, then the RR will apply 14V to the rotor to increase the alternator output. Normally, the voltage of the system would rise, and the regulator would cut the power once it hits 14.8V. But the voltage that the RR reads is still 14V, because the little motorcycle alternator isn't actually driving the voltage of the whole system (the car alternator is). Also note that the RR doesn't actually read voltage off of the battery, it reads it off of the brown wire. This is how you get red-wire melt on the RR connector when there is too much impedance in your wiring. So it is likely providing a much higher voltage to the battery, but keeps seeing the same voltage (14V in this example).

So it keeps outputting it's maximum power, flowing more current than it or its connector's wires are meant to handle and fries something that isn't fused.

 

The only time jumping a bike with a running car can be an issue is if the motorcycle has a shunt type voltage regulator. The alternator in the car can put out way more amperage than a motorcycle regulator is designed to handle so it can damage it.

The XJ regulator reduces voltage to the alternator field coil to reduce alternator output. Only thing that can happen is the regulator will shut off the field coil completely which won't hurt anything.

No need to run the car though. Even a small car battery will run the starter on the XJ for a very long time before being drawn down. As Manbot13 pointed out you need to let the starter cool rather than burning it up.

 

Again, I've never had a problem starting the bikes from a running vehicle......

 

I had the same issue two years back, my starter was all messed up inside, I was able to buy a rebuild kit off the internet. I didn't see any smoke, but I'm sure I would have, if I kept pushing it. I usually start my motorcycle that way at the beginning of the season, but since I fixed the starter, it works so much better, even when cold. and now it's even better yet now that I fixed the fuse box.

 

if a bike doesn't start with the battery that's in it, i don't go anywhere on it until it does. Learned that lesson the hard way. It kind of goes along with, don't push a bike down a hill to start it unless your prepared to push it back up

 

Agreed - I always ride around the neighborhood for 20 mins and come back home without stopping - leave it for 10 with bike off and then try and start it on it's own. Only then can you almost trust it . For the next day I make sure to only switch it off if I'm near a bar. I mean if you're going to be stranded somewhere it's better to be stranded in a bar right?

 

Mr. Ribo, I like your style. Does this bar we're stranded near have women of questionable morals? If so, disconnect my battery!

 

This is starting to sound like a plan. I believe the bar in question (which I've made up) is full of free beer, chilled-out biker chicks and dodge-ball.

 

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

directions?

 

i don't know guys....keep in mind, before this happened, the bike started up great! simple push of the electric starter and on it was. quick too. all it needs is some choke and NO revving of the throttle to get it started. just fyi...

 

So are you saying it doesn't start now? What kind of battery do you have?

Get out your MM and test the wires where you said you saw smoke - need to determine if they are degraded now.

If you're not then I recommended running an AGM battery - since I replaced mine with an motobat AGM it's been bad-ass.

 

How long were you trying to start it up? How long ago did it "start up great"? Are we talking the day before, or was this the first start-up of the season?

Where did the smoke come from? Side of the bike? what components are near by? Wire colors?

 

I've read back through this again......

I'm gonna go on record to say you're just in need of a new battery. Clean the wire terminals while you're at it.

Dave Fox

 

For his car, or his bike?

 

Neither..... For his watch


Ahahahaha..... April Fools


Good one, Shank....... Yeah, for his bike

 

Interesting thread. I have always jumped bikes w/no issues. Just did it yesterday, but the rig was off.