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My day off please help

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by John DE, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Hey all i know ive posted several threads about my problems related to no start anderratic electrical issues i believe but today is my only day off this week and i would really like to make some head way on the bike. The blinker problem im currently having and stuck on and all my problems leading up to it can be read here on my old thread. Thanks alot guys for all your help though i really appreciate it!

    http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/still-having-issues.66642/
     
  2. BaldWonder

    BaldWonder Innocent Bystander

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    Sorry. I looked and read through, but I'm not well-versed there. My hunch is that no, the flasher relay wouldn't be related to your starting issues. I believe they are totally separate circuits. Hopefully my commenting on this will help some of the wizards take notice. You've already got Kmoe. He's a solid guy and knows his stuff pretty well.

    Also, most XJ models have significant differences between them, so it helps if you add your specific model to your signature line. That way the people reading your posts can give more precise answers/advice.
     
  3. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Okay thanks alot and i have a 1983 xj750mk
     
  4. John DE

    John DE Member

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    I didnt think so either with the flashers being the problem but it seems like they are flashing both at once after the starting problems began and worked fine when the bike was running fine. The fuse is fine i checked it and the relay is working its the long life model 552
     
  5. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So for anyone to really help you have to report back on some of the suggested testing. You have checked your ignition coils and they are in spec, that is good. However, what about the side stand circuit testing? Or the power to the TCI? Or what is battery voltage when the bike is cranking? What is the history on maintenance? Have you ever done any carb work on the bike? Have you ever checked / adjusted the valves?

    Test the battery:

    Connect the positive lead of the DMM set to DC volts to the battery at the battery cable, connect the negative lead to chassis ground, such as the starter casting. Crank the bike and note the voltage. Having the 12.5V you mentioned earlier doesn't mean anything if the voltage drops considerably when trying to start the bike.

    You cut the coil wires back a quarter inch and re-attached the plug caps. What are the measurements after doing this. With the DMM set to ohms place one lead up inside the #1 cap where it touches the metal, place the other lead up inside the #4 cap where it touches the metal. You should get a reading of 11K (coils) plus the plug caps (5K x2) so the total should be around 21K +/- 20%. Repeat for cylinders 2 and 3.

    It was suggested that you check the voltage on the TCI. Place the negative lead on the DMM set to DC volts on chassis ground. Place the positive lead on the R/W wire at the back of the TCI mating connector 4 pin plug. Turn the ignition switch on and the kill switch to run. Should get a reading close to 12 volts. Engage the starter and verify voltage stays above 9 volts.
     
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  6. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Okay i will try that and yes i dosconnected the side stand circuit its inoperable now as you suggested. I tested the tci wires with the ignition off and it is in spec at the wires on ohms but i havent tried it with the ignition on and attempting starting the bike. The battery non cranking is at 12.8 volts i checked but not while cranking and i also have a portable fully charged jumper i use if it gets low on juice. The battery is only a month old agm battery i got offline also brand new.
     
  7. John DE

    John DE Member

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    With the caps off of spark plugs 1 and 4 and the dmm set to 20k inside the plug wires where the screw plugs in i get a reading of nothing but the pigtails on that coil check out fine.
     
  8. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Can you confirm that your meter is reading correctly? Can you confirm that you are seeing zero resistance and not infinante resistance, because zero resistance through a set of coils is pretty near impossible, even if they have a ton of internal shorts.

    I also want to confirm that the sidestand circuit is bypassed and not just disconnected. The two sidestand leads must be joined together by a jumper or the safety relay will prevent the bike from running when in gear (assuming that the neutral switch is working correctly).
     
  9. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Well k moe when it is set on 20k and touched to 1 and 4 coils inside them it reads a number 1 and has no change. Do i have to have the ignition on to tesr them?
     
  10. iam13x

    iam13x Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but if the side stand switch was the problem the bike wouldn't crank at all... If I've read all the op posts right it cranks but either has no spark or weak spark correct? What if he ran a jumper wire from the + to the tci and see if that works? That is how I had to get my xs750 running because the po had hacked the harness. My bad the side stand switch won't keep it from cranking... Don't know what I was thinking sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  11. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Where do you hook it up to on the tci, the jumper leads negative and positive?
     
  12. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The reading with the spark plug caps still attached to the coil wires will exceed 20K ohms, so you would need to go up one more scale above the 20K ohm setting (20K to 200K). Always set you DMM to the nearest scale just above the expected range, either for ohms or voltage.

    Sort of. The side stand switch along with the clutch lever switch will keep the bike from cranking if in gear by disabling the starter cutoff relay. Also, the side stand relay will disable the TCI if the bike is not in neutral OR if in gear AND the side stand is down. Not running and not cranking are two different things. Cranking is the control of the starter cutoff relay, running is control of the side stand relay. That's why just bypassing the side stand switch will not cure a problem that exists in the side stand relay, which results in no spark by shutting down the TCI.

    The side stand relay must be energized to open a set of normally closed contacts by either a good neutral switch, or a good side stand switch, or by correctly bypassing. Otherwise, the TCI will be held disabled and no spark will occur. That was the point of asking to disconnect the B/W wire on the 6 pin connector to the TCI just to rule out the TCI being disabled by a defective side stand relay or wiring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  13. iam13x

    iam13x Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up rooster. On my xs I ran a wire from the + on the battery to a toggle switch and from the switch to I believe the red/white wire on the tci. I'd check a diagram for your bike to be sure though. I did this to bypass all safety switches and the key and on off switch.... This was just to make sure my bike would even run. I'm in the process of rewiring everything correctly now.
     
  14. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    No the ignition should not be switched on here or anywhere else when checking continuity. The "1" on the meter display indicates an "overload" condition. Some meters will actually display "OL" on the meter display for this condition. Switch to the next higher scale to get the meter within range.

    Did you measure the voltage on the TCI yet? Hooking up jumper leads is a bit risky. On the 4 pin connector there is a R/W wire for +12 and a black wire for negative return. Check the voltage at the R/W wire to verify voltage present at the TCI - Ignition switch on and kill switch set to run.

    And, just to ask again. Any previous maintenance on the carbs and adjusting the valves?
     
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  15. John DE

    John DE Member

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    No i havent adjusted the valves ever but they seemed to be in check last time i checked a year or so ago with a feeler gauge. I replaced the valve cover gasket and bolts on that with high temp gasket sealant. I redid the carbs and adjusted the float levels last summer and cleaned them all as well but i doubt that would be causing my no spark issue on the plugs which im sure you guys know as well lol thanks
     
  16. John DE

    John DE Member

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    I just dont understand why my blinkers are messed up at the same time my bike doesnt run also and the pigtails leading to the ignition coils read in spec but the number 1 and 4 spark plug reads 1 i guess meaninf overload which is not good i assume?
     
  17. Rooster53

    Rooster53 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    So did you get a good reading on 2 and 3 of about 21 kohms? Do you have the meter set on the 200K scale when trying to read the coil secondary with the plug caps in place?

    The transformer (ignition coil) has a primary and a secondary. When you check the pigtail you are reading the primary, which has much less resistance than the secondary side. When you check from plug wire to plug wire you are checking the secondary, which has a much higher resistance reading.
     
  18. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Yep good reading on 2 and 3 coil both primary and secondary but only got a good primary for 1 and 4 and a 1 overload for the secondary with jt set to 20k
     
  19. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Anyone have an idea on the blinker issue as well why it would just start acting up as well?
     
  20. John DE

    John DE Member

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    Working on the bike now today, Just got a reading of 26 for the 2 and 3 spark plugs with caps on set to 200k on my dmm and a reading of 75 for the 1 and 4 plugs
     

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