1. Hello Guest. You have limited privileges and you can't "SEARCH" the forums. Please "Log In" or "Sign Up" for additional functionality. Click HERE to proceed.

new battery or something more serious

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by pauldale999, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Hi XJ

    I've just recently had to have breakdown out to restart my bike when would not restart 5 mins after 3 mile run
    It was slightly more difficult to start when started out, but when I came out of the building I visited, the battery was almost flat, and would only turn over a few (slowish) times, and then nothing - just a buzz when I pressed starter.

    The technical guy arrived and got it started on his jump starter, and it got me home (We let it run for five minutes to try and recharge battery, before I set off) It would not restart when left, so I set off with the engine started with the jump start.

    When I arrived home, I turned off the engine, left it for a minute, then tried to restart - almost no response, and back to the 'buzz' on starter button only.

    It is a gel battery, that I have had for about 4-5 years.

    Tried to recharge using optimum charger (initially 11.9v), went up to 12.6v
    Put back on machine and started immediately - let it run for 10 mins to try and recharge, turned off and left for 10 minutes - tried to start again, and flat again - nothing but a couple of slow turns then the buzz again.

    Any ideas anyone please?

    Are these the symptoms of when a gel battery have to be replaced?

    I have seen on youtube that you can actually recharge these batteries on the old analog type chargers, instead of using the new digital ones?

    And I don't want to buy a new battery, and find out that it was something else.

    Regards.
     
  2. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    2,733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    sounds like a bad battery. charge it up record voltage and let battery sit over night record voltage again. then install in bike and do a voltage drop test on the battery when you press starter button
    you have to do a charging system test.
    what voltage do you get at 2000rpm?
    can you bump start the bike
    this link has the test specs
    The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide
     
    k-moe likes this.
  3. Chitwood

    Chitwood Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    352
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Fort Atkinson, Wisconsin
    I would also verify the bike's charging system. I agree it does sound like the battery has kicked the bucket but I'd be curious to know if the charging system is doing its part
     
    k-moe likes this.
  4. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Hold fire.
    I've just had it on charge all afternoon (8 hours) and it's charged up across the board on my optimeter charger at 14.6v!:)
    Started first time and let run on centre-stand in 4th for 10 minutes with lights OFF, (to maximise any charge from the regulator), and then turned off.
    Left it for 1 minute, returned and started straight away again.

    Then left it for 1 hour to cool - went back and it started straight away again, with a nice big bright ignition light!
    :rolleyes:
    I must have inadvertently left the lights on for an hour or so the other day after returning from a ride out. (Probably enough to not fully drain - and just enough to start yesterday, and get me up to where I was. As I had drove up with my lights on, which I always do - that must have drained the battery enough, so that when I returned to my bike from the shop I had been to - it didn't have enough charge to be enough to fire the bike up!

    Drama over then, but Thank You for your feedback - much appreciated as always!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  5. MattiThundrrr

    MattiThundrrr Not a guru

    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    1,649
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    America's friendly hat
    This might not have given you much of a charge... I don't believe the charge kicks in until the revs get higher, like over a couple of thousand rpm. However, I might be thinking about the charging system on a different bike.
     
  6. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    17,046
    Likes Received:
    5,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    City of Seven Hills
    Idling in 4th gear is still idling. Voltage dosen't get high enough to charge a battery until the engine is above 2,000 RPM.
    A good battery can start a bike several times before needing to be charged, but will never recharge if the charging system is not working properly.

    Have you put a volt meter to the battery with the engine running and actually checked if the voltage increases as you increase engine RPM?
    Please report back with voltage readings at idle, at 2,000 RPM, and at 3,500 RPM.
     
    Chitwood and MattiThundrrr like this.
  7. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Thanks for your input guys.

    I've discovered that nearly everytime I put the headlamp on, it drains the battery.
    It recharges fine, right up to 14.6v.
    I ran the bike without the headlamp on and it held the charge, so I'm assuming the charging system is fine(?)
    I'm assuming that it's something to do with either the headlamp earth, switch (which I had installed professionally on top of the headlamp cowl 10 years ago, when I bought the bike), or a dodgy earth somewhere else in the headlamp?

    Any other ideas please?

    Regards.
     
  8. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,014
    Likes Received:
    1,593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Beaver Falls, PA
    even if the charging isn't working 100% it's time to look for a sale on batteries
     
    k-moe likes this.
  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    17,046
    Likes Received:
    5,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    City of Seven Hills
    If the charging system were fine then having the headlight on would not drain the battery while riding even if there were a problem with the headlamp circuit (that drain would happen while the bike sits though). U.S. and Canadian bikes are required to have he headlight on whenever the engine is running, and they have the same charging system.

    You can't keep guessing at things. Get a multimeter hooked up and test.
     
    Colin 85 700 likes this.
  10. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Thanks again.
    It drained over 2 volts immediately, just by turning the light on whilst up to operating temperature, idling in stationary. Not got a multimeter, only way (?) I could check is with optimeter charger fixed up, and rev up to 2000, and see if reading rises? (with the light OFF of course!)
    I'll try that, but not sure if you can get a true reading of charging system capability by using the charger digital reading?
    Regs.
     
  11. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Just restarted (light OFF) (reading at 14.6v), left for a minute and turned engine off. Reapplied optimiser, started again, and reading at 12.4v, revved up to 2000+, and reading still 12.4/12.5v.o_O
     
  12. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Latest is that I've just taken the bike to shop, and they tested the battery and say that unit is ok, and will charge, but is not charging when the bike engine is running (over 2000rpm)
    The guy said that the regulator/rectifier needs replacing. (first he said it was the alternator/stator) He only did tests on the battery terminals using a sophisticated device, which came up with loads of diagnostics, whilst the bike was running. Looked in Haynes, and it says that the regulator should not need replacing unless it can 'become damaged in the event of a short circuit in the electrical system, or by poor or intermittent battery or earth connections'.
    I have had to change the main power fuse a couple of months ago, which blew twice when I was turning '0ff', but I cleaned inside the ignition key switch, and that seemed to resolve the issue.
    The rear left indicator sometimes needs a 'nudge' to come on.
    And, as I have mentioned earlier, something seems to flatten the battery by at least two volts, if I turn the headlamp on at the headlamp cowling switch when started (or before). Will not restart subsequently, unless recharged with optimiser charger.
    Regards.
     
  13. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    2,733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    higher than normal voltage is regulator. lower than expected is alternator typically the brushes need to be replaced and copper rings cleaned

    clean all your ground connections to motor battery and frame
     
    k-moe and Chitwood like this.
  14. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    2,733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    k-moe likes this.
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

    Messages:
    17,046
    Likes Received:
    5,308
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    City of Seven Hills
    Remove the alternator cover and check the brush length and condition of the rotor traces. Dirty traces should be cleaned with a hard art eraser.
     
  16. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Thank you so much for your latest tips! I shall carry them out this afternoon, and see if I get improvement.

    I have sent for regulator. (but if it is how you describe, and it is the alternator, there is one on ebay, and I'll send for that- the brushes that is)
    Went out today (with light off, and started first time almost), Stopped 3 times in a one hour period. First time it started after a few turns, second after a few slower turns, and 10 minutes later I stopped, was 2 minutes in shop, and when I came out and pressed starter button, - virtually nothing again!

    I was fortunate, because I only had to push it about 100 yards, where there is a downward gradient. Slowly let it roll down the hill, kicked it into second, let the clutch out, and it started first turn! It got me the mile and a half back home.

    One thing I have noticed whilst I am riding, is that there seems to be a bit of loss of power and unresponsive (to how it normally is) Would that point to anything in particular?o_O

    Anyway, I'll get on with what you have suggested, and report back with results.

    Thanks again!
     
  17. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    I've just had the rotor cover off, and examined the brushes system - the brushes (if they are the long oblong pillars?) had a bit of dust on them, and I cleaned that off, they are both the same length and spring loaded. They look remarkably clean. I'll take the stator out now, look at the state of that - clean it where I think necessary, and report back. Where are the copper rings? Where are the 'rotor traces' and what do they look like?

    Regards.
     
  18. pauldale999

    pauldale999 Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Nottingham, England, UK
    Had another look inside the rotor, but can't get the stator bolt out (it just turns the flywheel, either way). There was a load of black gunge stuff around the southern hemisphere of the base of the copper plastic-covered wiring (which had a burnt smell) Cleaned all that off, and all other areas I could get at, but can't clean it all properly until I get the stator bolt and stator out. I bet you need a tool to get that bolt out, and I haven't got one?
    Any ideas please?
    Meanwhile, I'll put case back on and hook battery back on charge.
    Regards
     
    BrandonDindorf likes this.
  19. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    2,733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    you do not need to remove the stator. the brushes ride on the copper rings when you look at the rotor there should be 2 copper rings on the face of it.
    if you could not see them they must be real dirty

    minimum brush length is 11mm.


    stator should just pull out
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  20. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    10,001
    Likes Received:
    2,733
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Great North Woods
    [​IMG] copper dirty.PNG
    clean dirty
     

Share This Page