No Juice - Seca 550 / maximX750

Hey all,
Been about 6 years since I was on here. Been riding my '82 Seca 550 with no problems for 13 years.... But... front brakes led to electrical issues. hah

2 electrical questions.
1 for each bike...
They are both sitting in the GD driveway!

1) Seca - I keep blowing the brake/signal fuse. I bought a front brake switch cable off of e-bay... and when I engage both the front and rear brakes together I blow a fuse. I disconnected the front switch and it seems to be OK... What are the chances that this switch is the whole problem... Could it be a ground fault someplace else as well?

2) MORE IMPORTANTLY
My newly purchased 1985 Maxim-X 750 ran beautifully.. for a week.
Started great, ran straight and true, pipes are good... see the pics in my Gallery. I have removed the after-market windshield.

Today I changed the oil/filter (it was dirty), and inspected the battery.

The battery overflow tube wasn't attached fro PO.... and some of the acid had eaten away a small bit of cloth covering some of the wiring. But the wires look fine and connectors all seem fine.

When I tried to start it up and go for a ride it started to turn over (minutely) and then all power just stopped. No lights, horn, brakes, signals... nothing.

There is lot's of juice in the battery and the main fuse (in the little rubber inline holder) is fine.

Where are the rest of the fuses?
What could be going on...
Man the wires and lines are tightly fitted on this bike!

Thanks for opines and suggestions in advance.
Cheers

Granitize Me.

 

OK...
Found the fuses behind the "dash" lights.
Everything is good in there.

I noticed that if I held the starter button the dash lights would come on, get brighter and the rad fan would start. Holding it for a while I thought I heard a sizzle so I stopped.

When I took the ignition cover off of the left side and "loosened" the wires I noticed a "bulky" section that looked melted... so I took of the tape/plastic and discovered 3 wires into "joiners" that looked burned and stuck together to me... See pics.

Once I separated these wires I can turn on the key and get dash lights. If I try to start the bike there is a big click from a round component directly behind the battery, with 2 big wires attached; and all power is gone.

What is this?

 

That round component is the starter solenoid. It is supposed to click, then the starter is supposed to turn. While that is happening, power to the headlight is interrupted so the starter can draw full current to spin fast enough.

The starter not spinning can be down to a few things:

1. A weak battery.

2. A faulty starter solenoid (you can use a coin or a screwdriver to bridge the two large posts on the solenoid, if the starter spins then the solenoid is bad. If it does not spin then see #3).

3. A starter in need of rebuilding. Rebuild kits are available and there is a how-to in the FAQ suggestions section of this forum.



Replace those connectors before you do any more testing (you know this, but it needs said anyway).

Fuses: the X has fuses in the dash.

Brake light: The switch you bought is likely the problem, unless there is a short further down that circuit. You can test this by unhooking the switch plug, and using a short peice of small gauge wire to bridge the terminals (just like ths switch does). If the fuse pops then you have a short somewhere in that circuit. If not then it's the switch (a brand new one costs less than $20).

 

Thanks...

So these are just connectors... and should not have been tied together in a "bunch..." right?

Just checked the Solenoid with a screw driver.

- With the key off - a little spark on contact - but no starter motor.
- With the key on - power drops to zero upon contact. Exactly what happens when I depress the start button.

Holding the starter button brings power back to the dash.
(found the fuses - They are fine)..

Guess I'll remake those connections in the AM and try a boost. But the Battery says full charge on the charger.

 

The results of your solenoid test say that the starter is probably faulty. Pull it and bench test it to be sure ( jumper it to your battery. Negative is the starter case, positive is the stud that sticks out of the case (pointing to the rear of the bike as it sits on the bike). If it spins then there iis likely a problem with the safety circuits. If it does not spin then you will need to go to this thread and do all of that stuff: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=45727.html

Oh. Almost forgot. Those wires should be insulated from one another. They melted together when the battery acid started working on the insulation, causing a short.

 

yikes... hoped to not get into all that starter stuff... I a good driveway mechanic and rough carpenter but...

The starter was working great until I lifted the battery... Any other thoughts?
Or am I just the latest victim of "touch an old bike syndrome".

Update:
Attached the battery charger to the battery and attempted a start. Solenoid did the well recognized "click, click, click..." And that's before fixing the melted bits. (getting on that this aft.)

So...as you say - starter eh?

 

Electrical components work just fine, until they sudenly don't. The starter is really very easy to work on. You won't be messing with engine internals, just removing a cable and two bolts to pull the starter, and two more to open the starter up if it fails the bench test.

Here's something to keep in mind. All used vehicles are suspect. The only safe assumption is that the PO either didn't keep up on maintenance, or mucked things up in order to keep it running.

At some point the starter will need to be rebuilt. At this point you can't start the bike. Use the down time to make sure that the starter works when isolated from the electrical system of the motorcycle. If it's healthy you can choose to put it back on and wait to rebuild it, but since it's off why not go ahead and rebuild it so it doesn't cause you more down-time later.

Troubleshooting requires a methodical approach. You have to test every component in a system, otherwise you'll end up chasing your own tail.

 

Took the starter out... Never done it befor so was a little gentle at first trying to pull it out... It actually came pretty well.

Jumped as you indicate above. Motor and gear spin with authority...

I am grateful for these directions... I wouldn't otherwise know what to do.. I will be prepared for next time.

So it's likely a safety circuit?
How many are there, how do I test them?

Please don't say that GD wiring diagram. I'm color blind so I'd have to hire one of my daughters to help... Can you say bribery?

As the Dude says..."Abide" methodology. heh.

 

OK. The safety switches can be tested fairly easily.

First step: Does the safety relay make an audible click when you turn on the ignition (relay is under the fuel tank, along the main frame rail.)? If so then the relay is working and hooked up correctly. If not then the relay is suspect and should be tested. You cn also check for voltage at the relay plug terminals.

Second step: Does the neutral light come on with the bike in neutral and the ignition switch on, and go out when you shift into any gear? If so then that's working.

Third Step: If both the neutral light and the safety relay are working, disconnect the clutch switch from its harness (not sure on the X, but the plug should be inside of the headlight bucket). Check for continuity with the clutch lever pulled in.

Fourth step: Also check the sidestand switch. There are bullet plugs between the frame rail and the side stand that you will disconnect to check continuity at the switch (this may require the removal of the footpeg for access). This switch gets dirty very easily (even with the boot in place) so you may want to clean it out with some contact cleaner.

Fifth step: If the switches check out, and the relay checks out, but the bike still will not start, you likely have a short somewhere in the harness. this is where things get time consuming, and taking notes becomes helpful as you check for continuity. You may need your helper and the wiring diagram (and the schematic), because you willl also be checking wiring that goes to the TCI.

The one bugaboo is that it could be a bad diode in the diode block. Somewhere there is a post concerning the internal configuration of that block and how to test it. I don't have the link handy, so you'll have to search for it

Note: if you don't have an ohm meter, or test light, you can use a jumper to bypass each switch in turn. If the bike starts with the switch(es) bypassed then the problem is with the bypassed switch(es).

 

First step:
Seems OK. I disconnected the radiator fuse to stop the fan... there is a short delay (.5 - 1 sec) and a quiet click from where it should be.

Second step:
Seems OK. The neutral light comes on with the bike in neutral and the ignition switch on. It goes out when you shift into gear.

Third Step:
If both the neutral light and the safety relay are working, disconnect the clutch switch from its harness (not sure on the X, but the plug should be inside of the headlight bucket - It is). Check for continuity with the clutch lever pulled in.
(I use the OHM meter for this. Correct? Switched to appropriate ohm level for a AA battery and touch the leads to the handle ... not the live ends)

Fourth step:
Also check the sidestand switch. (How would I test this?)

Fifth step: If the switches check out, and the relay checks out, but the bike still will not start, you likely have a short somewhere in the harness. this is where things get time consuming, and taking notes becomes helpful as you check for continuity. You may need your helper and the wiring diagram (and the schematic), because you will also be checking wiring that goes to the TCI.

The one bugaboo is that it could be a bad diode in the diode block. Somewhere there is a post concerning the internal configuration of that block and how to test it. I don't have the link handy, so you'll have to search for it. OK.. Is the diode block the metal flanged piece on the cover?

Note: if you don't have an ohm meter, or test light, you can use a jumper to bypass each switch in turn. If the bike starts with the switch(es) bypassed then the problem is with the bypassed switch(es).Yeah[/quote]
___
Getting closer to the fun bits...
Does the next pic look like another melted/burned bit or just a hack to make something fit?? Seems to be the main plug...

 

K-Moe,

Fixed...

I cut out the melted main plug connector (above) and connected each wire individually as a plug from the shop was on back order - no delivery date.

I went through all the safety circuits. Tested fine...

Hooked up the battery charger to the battery and it showed full charge... but the solenoid clicked.
That's good I said. ...But when I took the charger off - no power - not even a neutral light.

So I tried boosting it my Van... the bike started right up. Woo hoo!!!
So.... Got a new battery and we are now good to go.

QUESTION:
Would a ground, or other fault, cause a battery to deteriorate from running the bike to having NO AMPS but full volts within days?

I've learned lots this last week.

Cheers.

 

Oh yeah... I disconnected the Brake switch and there is no problem with the fuse. As you said - Probably that ebay switch.
Live and learn.

 

If you have all those wires and clips that are melted like that......sure looks to me like you have a lot of run-away voltage going on there. Check your charging system at the battery when the bike is running. It should hold around 14.5 volts----if the regulator is bad, you could run 15,18, or higher yet if you're really on the throttle, and you're gonna blow fuses and/or burn things up.

Just double check that for safety's sake.

Dave F

 

Good advice... I will check this AM.

Just to be sure... Start the bike, setup the multimeter, touch red and black probes to + and - respectively... and hope to see 14.5v.

If I see more I need to take a look at the regulator. Will it need to be replaced or adjusted. I have never been good with magical electronic boxes. .

 

Thats right. It may show around 13 volts or so at low idle, but as you crack the throttle it should rise up to around 14.5 or so, but should stabilize right around there regardless of how much more throttle you give.

If it keeps increasing, your regulator is shot and needs to be replaced. If it stays low, or even goes down as rpm's go up, then it still could be regulator but it could also be stator..........

Let us know what you find and we go from there..........

dave

 

Or it just needs brushes...

 

Thanks guys,
Took it to my most excellent mechanic.
He has a big shop tester compared to the 25 year old plastic one I got from my Dad's bsmt 15 yrs ago.

Low idle - 12.5 V or so.
3000, 4000, 5000 RPM's... Solid @ ~14.5
So we're good.

Only thing now is one cylinder takes about 3 min to "catch" in the cold AM.
I figure I'll replace the plugs first (or at least take a look).

Could it be a carb/fuel issue? It does seem to burn a little rich.