Now my XJ thinks its a Harley......

Okay, got the XJ650 running. Ran all over town today to get the items needed for the home made YICS tool. Put it all together and it doesnt fit!!!!!! So, back to square one on carb sync. Adjusted by ear for now, got it where I think its close. Doesnt come back down to idle as quick as I think it should, but I think that is because its not quite adjusted right, plus I have a small intake leak on #3 intake. Took it down the road to see how it acts, runs fairly good, pretty quick, I am almost satisfied.....

Pull it into the shop, smiling cause its running!! See smoke coming off engine, check out engine, I got oil all over the place!!!!!!!!!!! So much oil its real hard to tell where it might be coming from! I am going to clean it off once the engine cools down some and see if I can find it.. but I got two quick questions...

One, is there a known weak spot for oil leaks I should pay particular attention to?

Two, How full on the sight glass should the oil be? Its all the way up to the top. Is it possible its overfilled and blowing out the oil???


Give me some hints guys before this xj goes to the junk yard!!!!

And now I got to go back to the drawing board on this darn YICS tool... sheesh..

 

Hi,
try draining the oil, and refill with the correct (measured) amount of oil (in the shop manual or haynes) then check the sight glass again You should be able to see a level

 

The leaked oil is high on the engine?? Low??

When I refill my bikes with oil ... I fill it and watch the window for the level of oil rising.

Once the level gets near the near the top of the window ... I add small amounts of oil until the "Bubble" in the window is squeezed-out, leaving the oil level right at the top of the window frame.

I hope the leak is an easy fix.

 

Its hard to tell with all the oil that was on there. It looks like there might be a minor valve cover leak, but it wouldnt do this much. After cleaning it off and doing some investigating, looks like it might, and I do emphasize the might part, be coming from the cam chain tensioner. There was alot of oil in that area, more than any other area. I think it than ran round the fins to the front and sides... Directly below the tensioner is a bolt that goes through a nut. Looks like a bleeder of some sort, but after consulting my manual I believe it is a long bolt that holds the rear cam chain guide in place. The head of that bolt had oil pooling on top of it. Another reason I am suspecting the cam chain tensioner.

If I find that is what it is, I can just take it out, and reseal it without worrying bout timing the engine, as long as I DONT move the engine while its out, correct????


Is this a common component for oil leaks? Tomorrow I will run it at approx mid throttle here in the garage to try to determine where it is coming from..

 

If its the cam chain tensioner leaking -- you can remove the whole tensioner ... clean-up where it bolts on and clean the tensioner; too ... and, replace it without losing timing.

You'll have to make yourself a new gasket. Not a problem. Just trace the old gasket on some quality fiber gasket paper. Don't use cork. You'll also have to "Re-load" the cam chain tensioner before you put it back on. Your manual has that proceedure.

Treat the new gasket (if the old one was bad) with some Permatex High-Tack Spray-a-Gasket -- on BOTH sides. Let the sealant get good and tacky before putting it on.

After you get the tensioner back on -- you MUST release the cam and get the tensioner re-extended. That process is a little different depending on the design of the tensioner. Some need the cam released -- others are automatic. Be absolutely sure that you release it. You should "Hear it" release.

I hope that's all it is.

 

Okay, sounds simple enough, other then the "release the cam" part. But I will read up on it before I dis-assemble. Been turning wrenches all my life, but always been on the big stuff... heavy diesels.. These little engines are a bit different..

 

If it will make you feel better ... pretend its a miniture diesel.
The wrenching is all the same ... just much smaller sized tools are used ...
to protect the innocent.

 

Okay, I still am not sure about the leak, will check it tomorrow when I got better light. But I have the automatic tensioner. According to the book, all I have to do is remove the bolt from the end, release the pawl and push the tensioner all the way in, install in engine and re-install bolt. Thats all it says to do. Does that sound right to you?

 

Yep ... then folo-up with a "Slack-test"

Pull the left side crank cover. Put a wrench on the flats of the rotor. Rotate the engine two turns in the direction of the arrow on the rotor... and then stop.

Now, give it a quick turn backward. Any slack in the chain is going to allow the auto tensioner to push it out.

Leak stopped and chain tightened ...

Ride, Captain ... ride upon you mystery ship.

 

Okay, I've got an XJ650J (1982 650 Maxim) also.....and in the Haynes manual, it says that this model uses an automatic chain tensioner that not only never needs adjusting, but that you SHOULDN'T try to adjust it, at all.......(page 30).

But wait, there's more! The 1982 Yamaha Supplementary Service Manual for XJ650J says that "This model has been equippped (with) the automatic cam chain tensioner. No adjustment is necessary." (page 6).

Then, it says on page 14 that: "The cam chain becomes stretched with use, resulting in improper valve timing and engine noise. To prevent this, the cam chain tensioner must be adjusted regularly." (and then gives the procedure for doing so, which involves aligning the "c" mark on the timing plate with the stationary pointer, etc.......).

So which is it? Bike has the original engine.

 

So WHY would the tensioner cause a significant oil leak?? It is NOT a hydraulic one.. is it? (dunno fpr sure, but unlikely) So then any oil would be merely incidental 'splash' from the chain and under no pressure. Not even a gravity leak .
I would start looking elswhere.

 

The darn chain slings oil all over that area. I would imagine that the tensioner area gets quite a bit of oil splashed on it the moment the engine starts.

The "Automatic" in Automatic Tensioner need to be reminded it's supposed to BE automatic, now and then. As simple a mechanish as it is; coaxing another notch out on the shaft, by following the adjustment proceedure can't be a bad thing for bike's with notoriously loud chain noises.

Maybe when the bike was new; the tensioner worked great and there wasn't a need for adjustment. You're really only checkin'-it. If it coughs-up a notch for you by qetting goosed ... might as well take it.

 

That was the problem with finding it. It didnt leak sitting still running, only when going down the road at higher rpm's. That told me it wasnt a pressure leak cause a pressure leak should show up even when the engine is idling.. As Rick said, the chain tensioner gets quite a bit of "splash", I am sure, and when the engine was running up to speed, it splashed enough out of the gasket to make a mess...

This isnt my only leak, I know, but it was my major leak. Since half the gasket was missing, I am sure it was a pretty good leak..

 

Hey Rick, I'm with you bro.........

But, for the record and in your experience (because I have this much: NONE.) are you suggesting that I adjust the automatic tensioner via:

a) adjusting it AS IF it were a manual tensioner, i.e. align the crankshaft, loosen the tensioner lock nut and adjustment plunger, and then re-tighten?

or

b) remove the tensioner completely from the motor and re-install (as this is what the Haynes manual says you should do if you attempt to adjust an automatic tensioner).?


Sorry to be so dense, just want to make sure I do it right, as I get the eerie feeling that doing it wrong will lead to major problems!

 

If you have to do a new gasket, anyway ... you might as well clean and re-load the tensioner. Spray it clean and make it do it's ratcheting-out a couple of times ... just to have piece of mind that it's working like a champ.

Then ... reload it before you refit it. Just before putting back on; make sure there's no fragments of the old gasket left on the block to mess-up a real good seal.

Shoot both sides of the new gasket with some Permatex Copper High-Tack Spray-A-Gasket. This stuff seals it. Dab-on a smear all around the mating surface base of the tensioner; too.

When its good and sticky ... put 'er back on. Take-up the bolts with equal torque to make is seal nice and flat. Your leak should be History.

When everything's good to go ... release the tensioner. The tensioner only applies tension to the portion of the chain running from the crank to the intake cam at that moment.

You need to bring any slack that might be on the opposite side over for the complete adjustment. That's why you do the manual process of bringing around any slack on the other side.

Sometime nothing happens because it's all good in there. But, there might be enough to cause the tensioner to "Automatically" adjust itself to take-up enough to cause the rod to advance a notch. If it does; you'll probably hear it go "click."

Nothing like a nice tight cam chain to do a little bit to quiet things down enough to allow you to hear the middle gear whine or the valve train dancing. Do it with the attitude that your setting-up a precision instrument.

Because ... you are!

 

I have the same bike. How do I do the "coaxing" without removing the entire assembly? Do I remove the end bolt and replace it, or is there more to it?

TIA

 

All you really need to do is "Present the slack in front of the tensioner."

Pull-off the small, LEFT Side, Crank Cover and look right on center of the Ignition Rotor.

There a SQUARE "Nut-shaped" set of flats to get a wrench on.

All you need to do, really, is Rotate the Engine in the direction of the Arrow on the Rotor -- 2 Full Revolutions ... coming to a slow and steady stop.

(Now, the Chain is nice and tight ... across the front of the Engine)

The, you do this:

QUICKLY ... Turn the Engine over backwards ... so any slack in a loose Chain will have to pass before the Automatic Tensioner before it gets Upstairs to the Cams.

If there's enough to make the Tensioner move-out a click ... it should!

 

Thanks Rick,

I did get at least one click out of it.

I'm working my way through your signature list. I've cleaned up all electrical connections and fuse contacts till I replace the fuse box this winter, next to do is check the alternator brushes.