Oil nozzle leaking--I think.

I replaced the oil nozzle o-ring, the bearing seal, and the large o-ring on the bearing housing. After running about 100 miles I noticed oil leaking and when I looked it appeared to be coming from the oil nozzle which really didn't seem to fit snugly. Chacal sent another o-ring which I installed and it fit more snugly. Now it is leaking more than before. I am considering using some blue RTV on the oil nozzle o-ring, or even seal the nozzle wiith it. Has anyone ever done this? Any suggestions on how much to use?

Also, I think I want to also check the bearing housing o-ring before using the RTV. I'm even thinking that the housing o-ring may not have seated or maybe crimped when I reinstalled the housing and that may be the cause of the leak. However, after installing the new o-ring the housing is very tight and I can't seem to get it off. Is there some trick to it, or would a puller of some sort work. It came off easily when I removed it to install the new o-ring and bearing seal.

 

I pulled the stator rotor today and it appears that all the oil is coming from the oil nozzle, so rather than pull the bearing housing I simply moved it a little and removed the oil nozzle. I can't see any reason why it's leaking other than it doesn't have anything holding it tight other than the o-ring itself. So I cleaned everything with carb cleaner and then alcohol, removed the o-ring from the nozzle and coated everything with blue RTV, reinstalled the o-ring, and then applied another coat of RTV, making sure there was no RTV forward of the o-ring, and reinstalled the oil nozzle. The RTV filled the area completely so I smoothed it out and left it to dry. Hopefully that will take care of the leaking oil.

 

That should seal it I would think. I use the Grey gasket maker stuff. Seems alittle tougher than the blue but that should be just fine.

 

Well, it's leaking again. When I get a chance I'm going to go back and see what's going on. This time I'll take pictures. Seems like such a simple issue, but it's kicking my butt.

 

Gahhh. This has given you fits for too long. At this point I'd start wondering if there is a crack or divot that you're not seeing. There is quite a bit of oil pressure at the nozzle, so it wouldn't take much of a flaw to find oil where it shouldn't be.

 

When I go back in, I'm going to take an exact measurement from the edge of the crankcase to the oil outlet and then measure to make sure the nozzle is going in far enough. I just assumed that the small pinch pin in the head of the nozzle put it in the proper position. In any case, I don't see how it can go in any further. But we'll see and I'll have pictures this time.

 

Here are some pictures. It appears that the oil nozzle is not leaking now. When I tried to remove blue sealant it was perfectly dry. From the pictures it appears that the shaft seal is good, but apparently the shaft housing o-ring is leaking. It was a new one so I must have damaged it during installation, although I can't see any damage to it or the housing. In any case I just ordered a new one from Chacal, Damn things are expensive, so I want this one to work. Any tricks or suggestions to installing the housing with o-ring? Chacal suggested silicone grease. I have found that it is very tight and that I have to tap it in using a wood dowel and hammer.

 

While I have no experience with this specific repair, I've found that anytime you need to tap something in with an O Ring it doesn't end up well. This can cause the ring to twist or even roll out of the groove since there is a lot of friction grabbing the rubber on dry parts. I've used silicone grease in many such situations with excellent results so I will second that suggestion.

You've inspected the surface for small nicks or imperfections?

 

I like to use the red grease that comes with fork seals. That o-ring is a tight fit, and (almost) any rubber seal should be lightly lubricated before installation.

You may consider using a very thin wipe of RTV on the flange of the bearing housing as a backup. Any squeseout on the baring side will be contained by the o-ring, but you still won't to use much of it.

 

I used motor oil on the seal when installing it, but I'll use the silicone grease this time since I already have it. I have inspected the o-ring and can't find any flaws or even any indication that it rolled or crimped, but it could have. I will check the case again, but initially it looks to be a smooth as a baby's behind. In any case it is a tight fit. A new seal is on the way so I'll let you know what happens. I'll have to take a ride and then pull the cover to check it. I'll let you know.

 

Did you also inspect the bearing carrier?

 

Not sure what you are referring to by "bearing carrier." However, when I first started this adventure I replaced the nozzle o-ring, the bearing plate o-ring, and the bearing seal. There is no leak from the bearing seal, at least not on the outside.

 

Bearing carrier = bearing plate = dumb brain flubbed.

 

I may have found the problem. I have a picture but Photobucket has been down today. In any case, I found that the o-ring groove in the shaft plate has a very small hole in it at about the 8 o'clock position (oil nozzle side). At first I thought it might be some vent or oil passage, but when I probed it with a small wire it didn't seem to be anything more than a very small hole--about the size of a pin head. Unless it is supposed to be there then it must be manufacturing flaw. Does anyone know if there is a passage in this groove? If not, then I may simply try to fill it with a little RTV and see if that solves the problem. I have a spare engine if I have to get a new plate but had rather not have to go into it. When photobucket comes up I'll post the picture.

 

Here is the picture

 

I don't have a spare to look at, but:

I can think of no reason why an oil passage would be drilled into an o-ring groove.

I do not see an oil pathway for that specific location on the factory diagram.

The hole does not look clean (distinct) enough for it to have been made purposefully (even considering that it would have been drilled at an angle to be oblong).

 

I agree. I think it was a result of a bubble in the casting that was exposed by milling the groove. I emailed Chacal to see if he had one to look at. If he doesn't, then I'm probably going to fill it with RTV and see it that solves the problem. If not, then I guess I'll pull the one in my spare engine and take a look. Thanks for looking at the factory diagram.

 

FYI, Chacal checked a couple of new ones he has and there's no hole or vent. Guess mine is a manufacturing defect. I'm going to try the RTV.

 

I'd go with epoxy after a thorough de-greasing. There is some oil pressure there, or the o-ring would have sealed it. I think that an RTV plug would just end up blowing out.

 

oh well, I just put in the RTV, so I guess I'll see how it works. Since the hole was at about the 7 o'clock position originally, I'm going to rotate the plate so it is at 12 o'clock. Hopefully that will do it. I doubt there is any oil pressure at the hole, but I suppose crankcase pressure could do the same thing. I'm letting the RTV dry for about 24 hours and I'll install the everything tomorrow.

 

My vote is JB weld....not JB quick( quick will not work with pressure...please trust me on this one...)

 

My first choice would be to braize the hole shut, but that's a lot of extra work with a very fiddly process amd a fair amount of finish work.

 

Well, it's all back together and the patch is not visible and located at the 12 o'clock position with a new o-ring. I'll ride this weekend but it will probably take a couple of weekend rides to be sure of what it's doing. I looks good, so I'm hoping for the best and I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Success, I think! After about 2 weeks and about 150 miles I have no leak showing. I guess the small hole was the problem and filling it with RTV and rotating the shaft plate so that the filled hole was at the 12 o'clock position solved the problem. However, my curiosity may get to me and I may remove the outer cover and take a look.

 

Don't bother removing the alternator cover. If there were a leak you'd already see evidence at the drain hole at the bottom of the cover.

 

Sounds good to me. Thanks