Relay Identification Help!

Okay, I have an '82 XJ650J (Maxim) and I've identified three of the five relays on the bike, I need help with the others.

Relays mounted above coils on "T" bracket:

#1: large black plastic box with Nippondenso FU257CD, 12.0V, 27W X 2 + 3.4W, 061300-5461, and DOT 6944 printed on it. Has 3 wires going to it: Yellow with green tracer ("C" stamped on relay), Brown with white tracer ("L" stamped on relay), and Brown ("B" stamped on relay).

#2: small metal can with 4U800/Omron/2961D9 printed on it. Has 4 wires going to it: Black, Black with white tracer, Blue with yellow tracer, and Red with white tracer.

Relays mounted above carbs/airbox boots on a "T" bracket:

#3: long rubber coated box with an eopxy-filled end where the wires enter into it. Nothing printed on it. Has 5 wires going in: Tan, White with green tracer, Yellow with green tracer, White with red tracer, and Yellow with red tracer.

#4 small metal can with 4H701/Omron/1071D9 printed on it. Has 4 wires going to it: Sky Blue, Red with white tracer, a second Red with white tracer, and a Black with yellow tracer.

Relay mounted under TCI box of left side:

#5: small metal can with 3H500/Omron/1651D9 printed on it. Has 4 wires going to it: Dark blue with black tracer, Red with yellow tracer, White, and Black.


I think that relay #1 is the Flasher Relay, but on the wiring diagram it seems relay #4 to be labelled as a Rear Flasher Light Relay....are there two flasher relays on these bikes? And if so, do you replace both of them when converting your flashers to LED lights? If relay #4 is not a "rear flasher light relay", then what is it a relay for?

Relay #2 I am clueless as to what it is, and it doesn't appear to be in the factory wiring diagram??

I believe "relay" #3 to be the Cancelling Unit?

Relay #5 is pictured in the factory wiring diagram, at the top of the page by the wire color codes legend, but it doesn't say what it's a relay for???

The factory manual wiring diagram is the goofiest thing I've ever viewed, with the wires going to a connector plug being labelled as being color-coded differently (at times) from the wires "within" the connector? Or am I reading it wrong. In some cases, I can identify the above relays by sorta "combining" some of the color codes on the wires going to the connectors with the color codes listed "inside" the connector.........

 

I'm pretty sure that those components are:

1 = Flasher

2= Headlight Relay *

3= Self cancelling Flasher

4= Side Stand Relay *

5= Start Circuit Cut-Off Relay (Safety Relay) **

* -- Generic (Low voltage signal connections = Side by side.

** -- Special (Low voltage signal connections = Over/Under

Using a generic relay to replace #-5 will reverse some safety related protections and usually requires the bike to actually be shifted into Neutral to "Start" the bike.

But, the Starter Motor WILL engage and cause the bike to lurch forward if the START Button is pressed and the Clutch Lever is RELEASED!

I'll have to go visit my friend at the Dealership, tomorrow, just to be absolutely sure -- right??? I'd have to ride MY bike over there, too ... right?

That's what I'm telling my wife I have to do; rather than rake leaves and stuff them in the big, brown, recycling bags.

 

I wish I could see what your confused about on the diagrams. Do you have Yahoo IM? I might be able to observe your problem and help you decipher the "mysteries of the electrical schematic".

 

Hi Rick, thanks for the insight. If you come across any further info, please let me know. Also.....what do you mean by "side-by-side" and "over/under". I realize that you're saying that the generic relays #2 and #4 can be replaced by any old standard auto parts store relay of a comprable type.....and that #5 better be a factory Yammy piece....right?

Robert, I'm going by the wiring diagram(s) in the factory Yamaha XJ650J service manual supplement (next to last page in the book), which is the same as (but much more legible than) the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual. I can try and scan it and send it to you if you'll PM me your regular e-mail address.

Thanks!

 

As you look at the relay's spade connections ... with the locking slot at the top ... there's four HORIZONTAL spades. Two rows of two.

The generic relay gets its low-volatage triggering current -- across the TOP two. Those two are Side-by-side.

The Safety relay, viewed the same way, gets the low volts across the two spades on the LEFT. Both LEFT side ones. Over and under.

 

Done, send it in a format that I can expand so I can see it (going blind nowadays).

 

I really can't follow the diagrams in the manuals with these "Progressive" bi-focal glasses I need to wear. One false nod and I'm back to square one.

I asked the doctor if there was something he could do; because this prescription didn't seem to be right for me.

He told me that my next prescription would be for a collapsible red and white cane and a dog!

 

Eeek! Hope it doesn't come to that Rick. I took colored pencils and colored my diagram to ease tracing the lines. Might work for you.

 

I wanted to open this back up because it came up in a search I did and I think that if you look at a couple of different sources that there could still be some confusion.

I'm working on an 82 RJ (Seca) and I think its the same as the Maxim. This is how the relays are located and it matches what Chacal is now putting in his parts list. What is in his parts list is correct. 1 through four are under the tank and numbered from the front:

Edit: I'm using an XJ 650 RJ Yamaha Service Manual

1. Flasher. There is only one

2. Side Stand Relay. Edit: This is not shown in the XJ650G section of the manual which makes me think that it doesn't apply to the Maxim but it is shown in the front part of the RJ supplement in the main wiring diagram at the top right under the taillight and again on page 13 and 14. Page 13 and 14 give very good examples of how this circuit works.

3. Canceling Unit for turn signals

4. Neutral Safety Relay. Edit: This is shown in all parts of the manual, but it is not always labeled well. In the back in the 650G section it is on the right side and simply labeled "relay" The words rear flasher light are near it, but are referring to the bulbs that are just below. In some of the sub-diagrams in this section, this relay is not labeled but it is in series and very close to the starter relay. In the RJ supplement it is in all diagrams including the ones on pages 13 and 14 and is labeled much better. It is usually called the ignition cut of relay though.

5. Head light relay. Under left side cover

On page 110 of the factory manual there is a relay that is just labeled "Relay (LH)" that is actually the headlight relay

On page 120 of the factory manual the "Headlight Relay" is actually the
Neutral Safety Relay

On the factory diagram it shows an L/B wire coming from the Head lamp relay that I took to mean light blue but it is actually a dark blue wiith a black stripe as Chacal indicated.

None of these relays has a diagram on it and I was wondering if anyone had a part number for replacement relays through the automotive parts houses that our plugs would match up to.

From Ricks comments above it seems as though two of these are the same electrically, but they used two different part numbers. I really don't understand why they'd do that, but for that matter I don't know why they used a relay for the safety devices. It looks like these circuits are just looking for ground. I hope I labeled the locations correctly and I'd appreciate it if anyone has any part numbers for aftermarket stuff.

Edit: see 2nd post below for more information on these relays.

Thanks,


Edited for spelling and added wire color info
Second set of edits are marked.
Third edit changed opinions to statement of facts.

 

No.
There are two Relays.
One is a "Generic" Relay for Lights, Horn, Accessories ...

o+ O+
o - O -

The OTHER is a >>SAFETY<< Relay

O - O +
o - o +

The Safety Relay's Blade Terminals are NOT in a Standard configuration.
Substituting a GENERIC for a SAFETY Relay will be Dangerous and make the Bike seem haunted.

 

Upon further research all three of these relays are different and are justified in having 3 different part numbers. The side stand relay is a normally closed relay while the other two are normally open. The head light relay and the ignition cut off relay (also called the neutral safety relay) both contain diodes which means that they are controlling voltage coming from two different sources. Although they are both normally open and contain diodes, they are still different and are not interchangeable. The use of Diodes in these things is likely what is responsible for the haunted nature that Rick talks about. Using a relay with the same pinout, but without the diode or with it in a different configuration would cause very odd behavior.

With all of this in mind it is very unlikely that a automotive relay could be found that is a direct replacement . They are still available from Yamaha and Chacal has them too. They're just a bit pricey.

After seeing how the circuit works in the drawing, I understand why they used the relays. It could have been done simpler, but it wouldn't have given as many options.

I hope this helps somebody.

 

I normally have some good used (tested) relays available at about half the price of new ones......

 

have a relevant question in regards to an '82 XJ650 Maxim:

After having the bike indoors for a few weeks taking care of unrelated repairs, I brought it out and jumped it with a nearly-flat 12-volt car battery (just the battery, did NOT run the car engine). Guess it was inside long enough for batt. to weaken. Bike started/ran fine.

Shut it off to complete some minor cosmetic stuff I'd just then noticed, and the next day the bike turns over w/o the help of an external battery(again and again and again) like a champ, but engine will not catch. It's getting gas, it's getting air - I reason that it's not getting spark.

I pulled off the gas tank to look at the ignition coils, and discovered that REMOVING a relay (according to above thread, I believe it's the sidestand relay - blue dot, etc.) let's the bike start/run fine. I gently put the relay back in while the bike is running - bike continues running. Swelling with glee, I take the bike out for a ride. After shutting it off at a gas station, bike refuses to start again. I pull out the sidestand relay again - starts right up. Drive home with the relay in my pocket, which I discover makes a light rattling/pinging sound when I shake it.

is this just a matter of replacing the sidestand relay, or did my jumpstart in the first paragraph do some sort of other damage? I am unlearned in automotive electrical systems anyway, but I've never run into a system that starts up better when you REMOVE something from it, especially when that relay is not directly connected to the ignition system (i think). Should I be concerned? Is something else in play?

 

You may just have a bad relay (that or the sidestand switch is bad, a not uncommon issue given the age of the bike). Clean the sidestand switch really good with a contact cleaner and give it another test before condemning the relay.
You can open up the relay body (find a suitably sized screwdriver blade and pry up the divots on the case body where it is crimped to the base). Take a look and see what gives inside. If it is just some minor crud, clean it up and give it another shot. If it is rusted out, give Chacal a holler, he is VERY reasonably priced and will get you hooked up.
Best of luck!

 

Actually, I think you pulled the "safety" relay, I don't think your year Max has a sidestand-specific relay but I could be wrong without checking the book.

 

The 82 650 Maxim does have a side stand relay.

 

don't think it'll be the sidestand switch, since the bike definitely starts/stops immediately depending on whether the relay is in or out.

dug into the relay, and blew out some solid rust dust. we'll see it it'll work tonight.

 

Holy Double Necro Batman

 

So after opening up the relay and cleaning some light rusting out, I double checked the Haynes manual and verified, via the colored wires leading into the plastic harness, that I had pulled the sidestand relay, and that it (at least initially) was to blame for my starting problems. Bike started right up, and continues to do so (I've started it and let it cool three times now).

Only problem is now my neutral indicator light, turn signals (indicator and the signals themselves), and brake lights will not light up. The sidestand shut-off feature does not work either, whereas it did before. Headlight works, still.

What could be going on here??

 

Did you pop a fuse messing with the relay?

 

you were right, bigfitz - signal fuse had popped out of its holders. turn signals and sidestand shutoff now good. brake lights still dead. could my messing around/running it w/o the relay just have blown the bulb?

 

repositioned the finicky fuse in its holder, and all is now well. Prying open the relay and scraping/blowing out the accumulated rust put it right back in fighting shape. Some rust had grown between the armature (small, springy contact arm) and the little coil. Sidestand cut-off now works, all lights work, starts up every time. Thanks, all, for the help - hopefully this helps someone in the future solve a similar problem!