Removing carbs?

Ok, I think it's time to pull the carbs. It's times like these I wish I had a garage, but I don't so Im gonna pull the carbs and throw a cover on the bike and hope that's good enough.

In reading my Hayne's about 5 times on the process of removing the carbs, I still have NO IDEA what the hell they're talking about. I feel like I wasted 35 bucks on this manual.

Anyways, is there a tutorial or something on here that shows how to remove the carbs? It says remove throttle cable, remove enrichment cable... I took a look at my carbs and have no idea how to remove those cables. It says remove the air box so I can push it back, using the 2 bolts... what bolts?

Now when taking them off the intake boots, the ones nearest the front of the bike, I need to be careful as those boots are very close to being done for, some good cracking going on... not letting air in just yet though. Do i loosen that allen screw on the bottom right of each boot? If so, how do you get to carbs 2 and 3?

Sorry for all the questions, I finally worked myself the courage to do the carbs and am stuck at bolt number 1... that can't be a good sign...

Ive read all the tutorials on cleaning, I've read the Hayne's and I've read the factory manual. But how on earth do you take this carb rack off??

 

This is a carb removal for the XJ11. Your 650 would be similar. The pics should help a little. You don't need to loosen any of the carb to head boots, you might need to push the air box to carb boots into the air box to get a little more room.

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2 ... +easy.html

 

That's awesome thanks man! But how do you disconnect the throttle cable, clutch cable, etc?

 

Take the tank off, then find the choke cable. now slowly wiggle the cable as you move your hand closer to the carb rack, slowly moving the cable side to side. as you approach the rack, resistance is going to be felt. there's a bracket stopping your gentle rocking motion. stop and examine the bracket, you see a JIS #2 screw right next to the cable. now buy a ticket to the Himalayas and find a good monk there, contemplate the meaning of life and the purpose of that screw. I'll stop here and let another finish the story of the enrichment circuit activation device, because it's past my bedtime.

 

Read the above howto. Then, just like Polock suggested, you need to let your curiosity and exploration ability take over on this one. Everything is pretty self-explanatory, just play around with the setup - it will come to you.

There's not explicit hand-holding instructions on every single procedure for these bikes, unfortunately or maybe for the better

 

If you are having a tough time just getting the Carbs off the Bike; trying to do this by yourself might not be the best advice.

You can get into big trouble in a hurry by biting-off more than you can chew.
A host of complicating factors can take this job "South" in a heartbeat.
Getting typewritten Play-by-play isn't the kind of help you require.

If you have a Manual, ... find someone to help you.
Not the kind of help we provide in here. We just type.
You need a Wing-man who can wrench and for whom it won't be his first rodeo.

For someone who has done a few dozen Carb Cleanings the process is still a challenge; requiring some special tools and a work space to keep things organized and safe while you work.

Do you think you can handle this, alone?
I remember the first time I cleaned a 4-pack.
I had a Mentor who guided me through every step.

Getting the Carbs OFF is just the tip of the iceberg.
Be careful or you can wind-up behind the 8-Ball.

 

See that's what's killing me. Everyone says it's no big deal you can do it yourself then I read that....


Was ready to pull the carbs tomorrow after work now not so much. I don't know anybody that's the problem. I have a couple friends but they don't ride let alone wrench.

So what am i to do? A guy on Craigslist said hell do them for 300 but c'mon he probably won't do the greatest job I'm sure. He didn't even know how many carbs were on the bike.

 

I back rick up 150% on this one. Any one here close to this fella, if so, time to step forward. Hate for him to not being able to ride due to lack of help from us.

 

I back rick up 150% on this one. Any one here close to this fella, if so, time to step forward. Hate for him to not being able to ride due to lack of help from us.

 

Well, removing carbs could be a start of a big problem if you make the existing cracks worse.

My advise is to read as much as you can before you start, so that you are prepared for most scenarios. Then, think outside the box and make your own conclusions about whatever procedure you're attempting. There's not going to be a step guide for all of it.

 

While I am here, the first thing I ask my customers when they are buying parts from me is "why do you think you need this part, whats the vehicle doing? I rather not sell you a part if it is not what you need. So my question to you is what is the bike doing that makes you think you have to pull the carbs, how is the bike running, what does your plugs look like, hows you gas milage.

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... rian1.html

 

Take pictures of everything BEFORE you take it apart...will help immensely when you go to put everything back together. Also take your time and make notes and mark each part with a bit of masking tape and a felt pen. This will also help to identify each part and where it came from. Get some foil muffin pans and mark them 1,2,3,4 to correspond to the engine layout and use them to hold the smaller parts when disassembling the carbs.

 

BruceB is right, a digital camera is really a good idea, especially the close-up setting. Even better is to transfer those pictures to a laptop so you can see them easily when you're working on the bike.

I forget which side is easiest to remove the carbs on the 650 but there is an easier side. For the XJ1100 & the Maxim-X it's the left side. If you take them out the other side you can do it but it's harder because of where obstacles are. Just look where you have the most space to put your hands.

I find it easier to separate the rubber boots on the airbox side first as that rubber is pliable. The engine side is reinforced inside and is not very pliable.

Once you get the carbs out you might want to inspect the rubber going to the engine (I forget if those front ones are called manifolds or boots). If you see lots of small cracks, that's not unusual. A good and cheap repair is to get some "liquid tape" at a hardware store. If you're not familiar with it, it's great for making waterproof seals for electrical connections and it comes off easily enough. It dries quickly and has a brush inside attached to the cap. Just use this stuff to coat the outside and it'll look good and will seal well. You'll find the inside of the front rubber will look good, it's the outside that gets ragged. If by some chance you find a crack in the inside, because of their unique shapes you'll need to get another one for that specific cylinder. Someone will have one and Len can supply you with a new one if needed. You'll probably be fine though.

You'll need to twist the carbs lengthwise a bit before you can get them out and they will pull out twisted somewhat, makes for more room to work with.

If you can loosen the drain screws then do so because the carbs will have gas in them and you'll get soaked. DAMHIKT.

Nitrile gloves, the blue ones can be gotten at most any auto shop. They will be your friend.

Polock mentioned a JIS#2 screwdriver before he went to bed. If you're not familiar with them it means (I think) Japanese Industrial Standard and the philip head screws used on these bikes have a different shape to them and using a SAE/American one will end up ruining the screw heads. I have JIS 1, 2 & 3 and always need them. You won't find them at Home Depot or Sears. Chacal has them http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14561.html & they are available on line. If you want to be sure you're getting the right part, Chacal is usually able to get you exactly what you need.

An impact wrench is a good tool to have with stuck bolts. Mine is the hand-held kind you hit with a hammer. Just be sure you have the thing set to twist in the proper direction when hit. I make sure it's set right by hitting it into junk wood and see which way the blade turned.

You may not need to remove the seals where the throttle shaft goes in & out of the carbs but if you do, you'll want to do some reading on that first. Also, DO NOT soak your carbs in degreasing carb dip. If you do, you will... be changing those seals.

You will also want to grind down some screwdrivers to remove the jets in the carbs. The jets have flat slots, not bevelled like a flathead screwdriver and if you use a regular screwdriver you may likely damage the slots as the brass the jets are made of is very soft metal. Do searches for that here and you'll learn more.

You will want to have a good quality set of vacuum gauges to adjust your carbs so they all suck air/fuel equally. There are several good ones out there, I have the Gunson "Carbtune" unit. Gunson also makes the "colortune" which is a spark plug with glass instead of white ceramic and you adjust your idling air mixture with this by looking for a proper blue color in the cylinder. Read up on this. Chacal sells a really nice screwdriver custom made to adjust this; it has a ring around the tip that fits into the carb and seats perfectly so you don't damage anything. It also has colored lines in the knurled grip part that are at 90 degrees to help you count the turns accurately and this tool is a pleasure to have.

The search feature is really helpful & search for RicCoMatic's earlier posts about carb work, he's got a lot of helpful knowledge that he's offered here.

Also Chacal's work here is a seriously big help if you've never done carbs before: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14692.html Its a good read before you start doing your carbs.

It was intimidating at first but now I enjoy working on carbs and they come out in maybe 5 minutes, tops. They will come out for you too, just learn first what you need and want to do & it'll make everything much easier.

Thing is, there's a few tools specific for doing your own bike work and if you have them and learn how to use them, it really simplifies everything. If you were to take your XJ650 to the local shop to have carb work done, you would easily pay more than these tools will cost you and you would have nothing for it except at best, the same carb job you can do yourself. And you would spend all that money and have no tools to do it the next time. Consider it cheaper to buy everything and never use a bike shop except to maybe mount tires for you and you'll have the tools to put the tires on your bike yourself & not paying that labor charge will save you the cost of the wrench set.

 

Wow thanks KA, I really appreciate that post. I haven't tried to take the carbs out yet, was planning on doing that today after work. I'll do some more reading first. I was only planning on cleaning one carb at a time, that way if I get lost I can unscrew the next carb to see how things are installed. Looks like I'll need a couple JIS screw drivers then for sure? All the vids I saw on hitachi carb cleaning, everyone used a regular old phillips.. As far as the vacuum gauges, I was hoping I could make a thread here to see if anyone would let me borrow a set for a day or two. I'd pay shipping both way obviously, you think that's a plausible idea? I don't have a garage or much storage in my apartment so the less tools I collect the happier the wife is lol. The drain screws are in that recessed cavity in the bottom of the carb right? What do you do just put a cup or something under the drain screw to collect the gas? Would hate to get gas all over the engine when undoing the drain screws! I don't know, the carbs NEED cleaning, and I don't know anyone, and would really rather not pay a shop. Also, I want to take care of those boots, if a shop does it, they wont do the boots and I'll have no access to the bike to at least take care of the boots while they're working on the carbs ya know...

Razz, not sure about gas mileage, I fill up at 80 miles just to be safe, no fuel gauge on this bike. What makes me think I need to pull the carbs is there is gas in the fuel and the spark plug tips are black as night. I think the floats are stuck (so I've read). I just spent 30 bucks on oil and a filter thinking that my new on/off petcock would be the answer. After the first ride, the oil smelled like gas again....

Thanks for the help everyone. My plan is to pull the carbs tonight, outdoors in my parking space and then bring the carbs to my work (we have a warehouse) to clean. I can take my time that way and leave them for a few days and have an indoor space to work in.

Worse comes to worst, I'll learn how to bench sync my carbs and then go to a job to get them vacuum synced on my bike. I can't really spend 100 bucks on a tool i'll only use once or twice. I'd love to have it but it's just not in the cards right now.

 

So I just pulled the carbs. Took all of 10 minutes.

Airbox REEKS of gas. Is that also float related? I'm doing all of this because there's gas in the oil. What does it mean when it's in the airbox?

I have a feeling ill be needing a lot of help soon. I can't work on these on my tiny balcony so I'm taking them to work and I can work on them in the warehouse after hours. Hoping to do one carb a day.

Everything I've read points to float valves stuck for the reason gas is in my oil. What exactly is the float valve? Does that mean I have to remove the pin from the float? It looks like a jet right? Sorry I'm very green! Feel pretty proud that I pulled the carbs tho!

Someone's definitely been in here before all the little screws that were supposed to be blocked of by yamaha are rusty and looked pretty stripped. Hopefully I can get them out.

Excuse any typos. On my phone.

 

And also I'm pretty sure its a stuck float valve... can someone explain to me how exactly to check for this? My carb 1 and carb 4 are stamped "1" and "4" is that from the factory?

 

Even if you have a garage, don't just leave the intake open to the elements like that. Stuff the intake with some rags, and the airbox boots too.

Little woodlan' crittters love to make their home in those places, so if you take your carbs off for more than a few hours, plug them up! I had my carbs off my turbo seca for a few days, and a mouse or squirrel decided to stuff my surge tank full of seeds, which gummed up the impeller. Didn't know what boost was really like until I found out and cleaned that mess up :twisted:

 

Good advice,

I just went down and filled all 8 openings with paper towels In the dark, head under cover, with a flashlight. That probably looked hilarious.

 

It's not hilarious.
It's paying-your-dues.
A Rite of passage.
You're being Baptized into the glorious world of motorcycling.

What you HOPE for is to be laughing about it later.

The conditions are less than ideal.
But, ... you're toughing-it-out.

We've all been in your shoes ... one way 'er another.

 

Ha thanks for the motivational talk Rick, I needed that! Time to take off the first float bowl tomorrow and see what awaits. I have a feeling they're gonna be clean, they were pretty clean when I pulled them off.

So I really wanna check out these float valves, where are they? Are they under the actual float? What is the best way to knock that pin out? I'll get the tool before work tomorrow... I DO NOT want to break one of those posts!

 

Reading the manual now, there is no overflow drain tube on my carb??

The only thing connected to my carbs were the fuel line, throttle cable and choke cable. No vacuum cable as I removed that when installing the on/off petcock...


Soooo should I have an overflow drain tube somewhere? If so, is that why there's gas in my oil and airbox??

 

Here is a pic of the carbs fresh off the bike. The vacuum tube is gone due to the new petcock. the only tube is the fuel line. Is this correct?

 

Hold on there cowboy! You don't have a vacuum operated petcock. That could be the reason you are over flowing the carbs.

 

I removed the vacuum operated petcock this past weekend and installed an on off petcock. the vac operated petcock wouldn't shut off. Instead of rebuilding I bought an on/off Then I changed the oil. But after the on/off petcock, (I confirmed off shut off fuel before installing tank back on bike) and the oil change I still smelled gas in the oil...

But am I supposed to have a drain tube on this carb? Because I definitely don't. That would suck if there's supposed to be one there....

 

^Good point made by razz1969, you will either get no fuel, or wayyyy to much fuel. This could easily be your problem right here.

A helpful hint of the dis-assembly of the carbs: YouTube has a ton of videos that take you through a literal step by step process. Look up Mikuni carb cleaning and watch a few. Anything you see in the video you that don't understand, can most likely be found out by watching another YouTube video.
(i.e. search how to check for a stuck float valve.) For me, YouTube is quickly becoming the go to source of technical instruction.

Good luck to ya!

 

Len (XJ4Ever) sold me on the on/off petcock. I turn it off when I shut the bike off and turn it on when I turn the bike on. It's better than the vac operated petcock in terms of never flooding the carbs!

it'll flow via gravity (not vac) when the engine is on. And NOTHING flows when i turn it off after I kill the engine.

But is there a drain tube on my carbs? I don't think there is looking at pics, but dammit I need to know, so I can order one and figure out where it's supposed to go!

Do I need to order new float needle and seats or can I just clean out what I have? I plan on doing the first carb tomorrow.. and do I need a special tool to pop that pin out on the float? I don't want to go breaking those posts. Then I'll be really pissed. I just want there to be no gas in my oil and airbox. That would be fantastic!

Oh and why does my airbox reek of gas? Same reason as there's gas in my crankcase? I'm thinking the float needle is stuck open... I really don't have the know how to wet set these things and am hoping something is just keeping that needle from shutting off fuel flow......

Jim

 

Your carbs do not have an overflow line per say. What is happening is your carbs are getting to much gas and it is over flowing in to your air box and engine. Hence the fuel in the air box and oil. These bikes really need the vacuum operated petcock or they will flood.
The only tool you need to pull the float pins is a needle nose plyers and a prayer. Try pulling it in one direction, if it won't budge, try pulling it the opposite direction. And as far as draining the bowls there is a drain screw on the bottom of the float bowl. But since you have the carbs off just turn them upside down and drain the gas into a suitable container.

 

Take a deep breath, we will get you through this.

 

The floats rise and fall inside the bowl based on how much fuel is in the bowl. Sort of like a toilet bowl. As the water rises, the float arm rises and at one point the water is shut off by a valve. Same thing on the bike. The valve is actually between the pillars, below the float hinge if you have the carb off and upside down. In your case, the floats are either set wrong, or are stuck, or the float valve has failed. Since your toilet has an overflow tube, the water just pours down the drain instead of the floor. However, on your bike, the excess gas is going into the cylinders via the intakes and/or into the airbox. If the floats are working correctly, they will not allow any gas to pass through the carbs when the bike is not running. Hope this helps...

 

KJJohnson,

Those are Hitachi carbs on that bike.....not Mikuni carbs....YouTube will have videos on these as well.....

 

That helps a lot guys thanks. So lets say the floats are stuck, how would I know that? They will be tough to move? or lets say the float valve failed, how would I know that? Can I generally just clean the float needle and valve and be good or wlll I need to spend 60 bucks on a bottom end "economy" rebuild kit and wait for it to come in?

Thanks Razz, I know you guys will get me through this! I couldn't find a drain plug, i found this hole on the side of the float bowl, but had no idea how to open it to let it drain. I just pulled them and turned em upside down into a container....

Man I just want to ride my bike! Every 2 days it's off the road for a week

Oh and I have to really crank the throttle when pushing the start button to get her to fire up, will a clean carb resolve this issue? It would be nice to push the button and hear her fire up!!

I'm going to start a new thread just for this carb clean, that way if I run into something, I can post it there and hope for a quick answer. I'll be working in my buddies garage (not the warehouse thankfully) so it'll be a quick process to get home and post something!

 

sounds like dirty enrichment circuit to me

 

Mr Millken what size guitar strings should he get to clean the jets and enrichment tube

 

Spend the money on a rebuild kit. Do the entire Church of Clean, then clunk test, bench sync the carbs and wet set the carb floats. As BigFitz often states, there are no short cuts, you have to to each step and thoroughly. Once done, you will be able to start the bike by just touching the starter button. My bike would only run with full choke, idle at 4k rpm, and would not start hot when I first got her. Followed the advice here, now full choke to start, then 1/2 choke after 20 seconds, minute late no choke and runs great from 1000 rpms up through 7000 rpm. Hadn't had the "want to" to go over 7k..but she sure does run great. It takes time, my bike was down more time then running for the first 3 months. So take your time and do it right the first time and you won't have to revisit anything until it is time for the required maintenance.

 

Thanks Bruce, I appreciate that. Come winter though I can't work on the bike at all. No garage and it's really cold out here! That economy kit on amazon would be fine for a bottom end rebuild?

http://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-Repair ... carburetor

 

I plan on using the High E string. On my acoustic that's .11 gauge.

 

Not having a vacume operated petcok will flood the engine. You can have brand new float needle and seats and the gas will leak past them. Gasoline weighs 6 lb a gallon, say that you have a 3 gallon tank. Thats 18 lb of fuel. Now that 18 lb of fuel is pushing on an area roughly the size of 1/4 inch (the combined area of your fuel bowl inlet where your needles reside). Some one help me with the math here, but I imagine the psi at your little needle is probably pretty high.

 

Same kit I used on mine, but the screen caps were unusable on the old float valve seats, so if that is the case with yours make sure you place a inline gas filter. Keeps little aliens from the gas tank fubaring your carbs...and all the work you have done...

 

razz if that's the case, why would Len (dude knows everything about these bikes) say the on/off petcock is a great upgrade??

 

Right on bruce, thanks man. Im gonna just have to do a cleaning this time around. I don't have the time or money to get these parts and wait on them to come in. I'm 'borrowing' a friends garage and only have till saturday night... I'll just do a really good cleaning and go from there...

Next carb removal, i'll go all out and rebuild the whole bottom end of this puppy...

 

Because I and every one on this site that has left there petcock on prime, which allows the gas to flow freely like yours in the on position, has experienced a crank case and air box full of gas.

 

but if I turn it to off after riding, and turn it to on right before starting, would that not mimic how the engine would run with the vac operated pet cock?

 

Yes with one difference. The fuel does not flow as fast in the on position on a vac operated petcock. Where in you case on is like prime, the flow of fuel is more. At speed it doesn't mater, but when you come to a stop ie. stop light (idle) the engine can not burn the fuel fast enough therefor the over flow.

And Len knows his stuff he would not steer you wrong. Like Len I am in the parts business, and when a customer does not know whats going on completely, as in your case, they get the wrong part. But keep it up, listen to us with an open mind, we will get you there in no time. By the way, how far away are you from Divide, Co

 

So you're saying I will always have gas in my crankcase? Why would Len tell me to buy this then? or he was assuming my float valve was closing when it should?

 

the valve doesn't control fuel flow, that's what the floats do. if your floats are in good working order you can leave the valve on prime all day long. the vacuum valve is a safety device. if the bike falls over the gas will stop coming out of the fuel line when the engine stalls.

 

so how do i tell if my floats are shot?

 

Do a wet set - this will tell you if your float bowls are overflowing. You would know this if you read the pdf that was posted a few times already:
http://www.xj4ever.com/setting%20fuel%20levels.pdf

 

ive read it a million times. I have no idea how I'm gonna make that happen.... can i run a long 30 foot fuel line to my carbs from my gas tank?

 

if your floats work that means the floats, needles and seats all work.
i've never heard of bad floats, it's the needle and seat that leak. i think Rick has something about steel wool and a q-tip or golf tee in his write up.