Riding/Crash avoidance question

So I am going to take the msf course as so many of you recommended. I am just waiting for the next one to come around.

In the mean time...

I had the maxim x in some "twisties" and noticed two things.. One is it normal to be more comfortable leaning right than left? I'm left handed? (no idea if that matters.)

I've been working on counter-steering more and more but just curious. If I really need to swerve to get out of the way of someting... Car, deer, roadkill..ect. Lets say I want to cut left.

Is just leaning left and counter-steering the fastest way to move? And is it harder to counter-steer at higher speeds? (75mph) On the highway it seems harder to move.

 

Counter steering will lean the bike at any speed over 15mph. To swerve to avoid something, the first thing you do is LOOK where you want to GO (not at the thing you want to swerve around - it's harder to steer away from what you are looking at).

Then countersteer, conservation of angular momentum will lean the bike FOR you, you just need to lean with it, and manage with the steering input. Practice makes perfect (nothing wrong with picking a spot on an empty road and swerving around it as practice).

And yes, higher speeds results in higher angular momentum at the wheels, so it takes a larger steering input to get the same lean angle, and you turning radius will increase too (a larger force is needed to change the direction of your velocity vector the same amount).

This is why driving at high speed on a motorcycle is dangerous, you have less time to react, AND once you do, the bike takes longer to RESPOND to inputs.

You shouldn't favor one side or another, practice should help this. The best direction to serve in is the one that keeps you alive, you don't want to bias it on anything else.

 

Say your on a 500 Lb XJ, and you weigh 200 Lbs, you lean left with your upper body only - 100 lbs pivoting at your hips to control 700 lbs??
Not too effective.

By turning RIGHT, you get your TIRES moved over to the right of your center-of-gravity (approx where your carbs are) causing your bike to be LEANING left so it can remain balanced as you TURN left.
by counter-steering, you are changing the balance of the whole bike/rider as a unit.

The amount the handlebars actually turn is very little, almost like applying force without much actual rotation.

The gyroscopic action of the tires is so strong, sometimes a race bike will "crash" and the bike will run straight just fine without a rider.

 

You want to get in the habit of countersteering rather than shifting your weight to steer the motorcycle.

The wheels are serious gyroscopes when moving fast. Leaning has little effect on them when they're really spinning. Lean also doesn't have much effect on a larger bike. The only way to execute a quick steering maneuver is by countersteering.

Here is why it works:

Gyroscopes do not like to change orientation. That's why you can stand one on the end of a pencil and why they are useful for precision navigation.

When you rotate a gyroscope about an axis perpendicular to its spin axis it also exerts a rotational force about the other perpendicular axis. So, when you twist the front wheel with the steering head it responds by twisting the wheel into a lean which brings the rest of the motorcycle with it. The faster it's spinning the more force to turn it and the more resultant lean force.

Once you're leaned the shape of the tires causes the motorcycle to turn.

 

Only if you live in Uk or Australia! (just kidding)
Yes, it is because you are left handed. Just like a right hand dominate person (myself) is more comfortable turning left. It's a natural reaction of your body trying to protect itself. When you fall or stumble you try to catch yourself with your weak hand. It's the body's way of trying to protect the strong hand from being broken. This isn't always the case, of course, but it's about 90%.

They are right, you don't want to cut left if that's where the semi truck is. And you don't want to cut right if that's where the cow is.

Your head should never be in one position too long. Keep looking left, right, mirror, left 90*, speed, right 90*, other mirror, left 20*, straight, right 20*......it sounds like a lot, but with practice you'll get used to it.


If you want to watch the best example of a motorcycle gyroscope, watch supercross or motocross racing. The front tire acts as a left/right gyro, and the rear acts as a forward/back rotational gyro.

 

Keep practicing and you will get the nuances soon.
If you want the best advice to avoid crashes then keep aware of all other vehicles and expect the unexpected! Look at all cars like the are gong to do something stupid. Like pulling out in front of you from a side road or driveway or move into your lane on the highway. Give yourself room when in traffic and don't let anyone tailgate you. You can stop faster then a car and you don't want to be hit from behind. I have only put about 800 miles on my bike this year and had three cars start to pull out in front of me causing me to hit the brakes and give some dirty looks.

Take your time and good luck.

 

A new rider wanting to avoid crashes and traffic - will set the alarm clock to 5:30 and have a loop planned in "cow country" on the weekends.

You will avoid 95% of traffic, rush hour, soccer moms, druggies, texters, drunks, junkers, tourists, salesmen, cops, racers, ricers, teens, and mail trucks.

 

Thanks for all of the good advice guys. I've been doing mainly back roads with a little bit of highway riding. Tskaz that does make sense. I'm riding every chance I get. Ive put 200 miles on the bike the last day and a half.

Good to know that when counter-steering you have to push harder at higher speeds and it's slower. I noticed its easy to move it around at bout 45mph but 75 or so and it is significantly harder. So if I am on the highway and need to move just counter-steer harder.

I have some friends out by me that ride but I haven't been able to cruise with them yet. They rarely get the chance to ride. (one owns 2 different companies, the other is a pilot and never home)

 

One of the best techniques that I learned is a simple one.....Keep the body vertical, direct the bike underneath you as a separate unit. if you're out for cruise, then leaning with the bike is fine. For quick maneuvering, and avoidance, do as previously mentioned. Sounds strange, but here's a 'visual' that may help give you a better idea of the motion.....

think about a slalom/downhill skier. On long sweeping curves you will see them leaning into the turn. On the 'sindy-twisties' of going between the flags and around the poles, the upper body becomes very still, and the lower part of the body does the 'avoidance' maneuvering.

You'll be amazed at how much tighter your mechanical control will become once you gain this facility.

Dave Fox

 

I once learned and subsequently forgot that swerving is basically 2 consecutive countersteers and at speeds over 18mph a motorcycle can swerve to avoid a carsized obstacle in less distance than it takes to stop.

When swerving, keep the motorcycle lean independent of body lean....keep your upper torso upright while the bike leans. Keep your knees against the tank and feet firmly on the footrests. Avoid fixating on the object you are trying to avoid and look toward a clear path. Maintain a steady thottle and do not brake when swerving. Any braking while swerving, even engine braking, may force the tires beyond their traction limit and cause a skid.

 

Always slow down to a speed you KNOW you can safely navigate the turn BEFORE you get into the turn itself. As you are finishing the turn, or as you can comfortably and safely do so, begin accelerating. This will put more presssure on the bike, forcing the wheels to dig into the road and essentially gluing you to the pavement. If you brake while turning it raises your center of gravity and the rear tire will often decide to race the front one down the road and keep going after it leaves the tarvey on into the country side ...

Always assume the cage drivers cannot set you. You are invisible, except to the cops. While believing yourself to be invisible you want to do anything you can to help the cage drivers see and notice you. When driving on the freeway, if there is a car next to you, make certain they know you are there. If you can't catch their eye, then be sure to back off enough that if they were to suddenly change lanes, they won't run you over.

Read the thread titled "be the bunny".

 

Silver, yup, that's what I'm describing. I learned that stuff from a guy who used to teach motorcycle driving skills before he retired.

Hey, did you get the emails I sent?

dave f

 

"Avoid fixating on the object you are trying to avoid " .. or any thing really, you are constantly moving and everything changes all th time, that's what's great about riding innit. But unlike in a car you are right in it not separated from it. Gotta keep that alert switch on, without getting tense and scared.

Practice, practice .."and have a loop planned in "cow country" on the weekends." That's where i was today .. havin' fun and keeping my eye, brain and body in.

 

You will also want to keep your eyes out for wet spots, dirt/sand/gravel, grass, hot or wet RR tracks, and hot or wet manhole covers.

If you are riding and get caught in a rain, stop for 20-30 minutes to let the water wash the oil off the road surface, the first 15 minutes of a rainstorm are the slickest. I ride in rain all the time, but I NEVER ride in the first 20 minutes of a rainstorm.

Also to touch on the above footpeg statement, you can also add weight by pressing down on the inside peg. It adds some of your body weight to the inside of the bike, changing it's CoG to the inside. It's not a big difference, but as you gain experience riding, you'll be able to tell the difference.

When you take the course, pay attention to EVERYTHING. They only have so many class hours to teach you how to not kill yourself, so they don't mess around. Everything they say is important.