Sand in engine

Hi all,

I've got an xj 650 engine in a frame. It had bad compression so I pulled the head/valve cover. In doing so I think some sand that accumulated at the bottom of the head dropped into the engine block. I got most of it out with a vacuum before it fell. Yet, when I look inside I can see quite a few grains of sand. I wonder how much more is in there. Is this a huge deal? Any easy way to flush it?

Thanks again. One of these days I hope to be able to actually help people with bike problems instead of just asking a million questions.

Best,

Aaron

 

So what you're saying is you pulled the valve cover and sand got into the valve train area? Or you pulled the head and sand got into the bottom end?

 

With the valve cover off there is a direct conduit into the bowels of the engine via the cam chain tunnel.

 

Pulled head and got sand in the bottom end.

 

My guess, would be that it's a potentially big deal depending on where that sand can get trapped between moving surfaces. Sand is usually quartz, which is quite a bit harder than aluminum or steel.

Were you planning on doing bottom end work as well? Any leaks from the oil pan gasket? Is the engine still in the frame or out?

If the pan's off, then you could probably flush the bottom end with a big can of WD-40 or similar spray cleaner/lubricant. If the pan's not off, and you have any leaks from the pan gasket, this will give you a nice excuse to fix them.

On the other hand, if the sand is all in the sump, I would expect the oil pump to pick it up, and it would then get trapped in the oil filter. As long as your oil filter is good, and never gets clogged enough to bypass before you replace it, that should take care of the sand.

 

Thanks for that advice SQLGuy

The engine is in the frame the pan is on and there are no leaks. I suppose I could take it off because I do have another gasket.

Anyone else have input?

 

maybe buy some cheap oil, a thn oil, pull the spark plug wires off, crank engine, rinse, repeat, then new oil and filter. or, we do this in our diesel engines, we use diesel fuel and run it for like 30 seconds, though i dont know what that will do to our clutches

 

How much sand are we talking about here? 3 grains, 10 grains, 1 tsp, 8 lbs?

I wouldn't run it if it were mine until I was confident it was all out.

I would use the dis-assembly, cleaning, and re-assembly time to reflect on why I did not clean the sand off the engine BEFORE I removed the head. Every hour or so I would hit my hand as hard as possible with a ball peen hammer to serve as a reminder to not be in such a hurry next time.

Loren

 

I would NOT run the engine until you have ascertained for certain that you have nothing in the engine but the parts it was built with and oil. That means pulling the sump and flushing it at a minimum, pulling it apart at worst. I'm right behind Wamaxim, don't get in a hurry or really annoying things like this happen.

 

wamaxim and Robert have my vote. In order to use the oil filter to "trap" the sand you first have to get it through the oil pump. :x :evil:

Take it apart now or take it apart later.

 

As for wamaxim's comment, there's somewhere between 10 grains and a teaspoon. Probably closer to the ten grains side.

I'm thinking I'm going to pull off the oil pan and take a really close look in there with some angled mirrors and bright lights.

 

once the pan is off you can flush it from above with thin oil without turning the motor over; I'd be dumping a whole boatload of cheapo 10W thru there to try and flush it all out, THEN inspect; repeat until clean. I'd also pull the oil pump and make sure it's clean.

DO NOT turn the motor over or run it until it's cleaned out or something bad will happen.

 

Thanks all. I'm going to make a separate posting with pictures of the work I do this weekend. Will post the link to that string below.

 

If it makes you (apato) feel any better, a friend of mine would build engines outdoors with blowing sand grit getting everywhere. He jokingly called it "break-in" sand. He would of course clean the rod bearings before assembly. Mostly pizza cars, but there was a Datsun 240Z with a Pontiac 455 which was QUICK !

The idea is that sand will settle to the bottom, not stay suspended in oil.
Pulling the pan is a good idea. While you're at it, stick a couple magnets to the filter to collect minute metal shavings.

 

Well u stated someday u want to ansewer questions instead of ask them,,,
heres your chance to learn about an internal combustion engine....generaly i like to start my students with a old lawnmower..
but what the heck ,,,,4 cyl. 650 is just as easy after about your sixth or seventh one......
heres the secret to a good motor man and mechanic.....
i hope the other guys are not mad at me for tell'n ya...

pay very close attention to how it comes apart / so as you can put it back together.......

try not to throw all the parts in a box and take it to someone else
and say ... will you put this together for me.....

either way your gonna tear it down, now or in 2000 miles....

when you reassemble it the parts should be as clean as the dishes that
come out of your dishwasher....

 

yz that must be a good dish washer, and whats her name

 

Here are a couple of more pointers.

Get a digital camera, one with MACRO; take A LOT of pictures (print them and write yourself some notes on them) as you disassemble.

Get some tags and label everything, get some boxes and keep all the stuff (from the head, etc) in the same box.

Read the manual 3 times before you start.

When you get it clean be sure to lubricate as you reassemble.

Good luck.
ab

 

Gentlemen,

Wold diesel fuel work as well as 10W for flushing out hs engine? A lttle thinner so it would pour quicker and it would be cheaper.

 

Yes, and you could squirt it from a 1 gallon "weed sprayer"
You could collect the diesel, strain thru a coffee filter and spray again.

 

keep in mind your just as likely to wash it into something as out
best bite the bullet and split the cases and do it right
next best would be drop the sump remove the filter and get the garden hose and squirt the heck out of it from every way you can, blow it with a compressor and do it again
button it up and put oil in it within a hour or so, so nothing rusts then crank it with the kill switch off 15 seconds, five times then cross you fingers and start it
look at the oil sight glass and watch the oil turn to chocolate milk, change the oil and filter and go for a ride then change the oil and filter again