shifting while stopped

So, it seems that i have encountered a [possible] issue. I have found that if i am gear, say 3rd, then come to a stop, i am unable to downshift to 1st while static. I have to push the bike a bit while holding the clutch in (obviously) then shift through the gears until i see neutral and in gear.

In other words, if creep the bike along on foot, i can shift. If i am stopped completely, it doesnt want to downshift.

Ill know when its able to be shifted, as I roll, I'll hear a subtle click.

I am afraid of some answers that i may receive.

Thanks
James

 

Be afraid. Be very afraid :lol:

Try adjusting the play in the clutch cable.

:idea: :idea:

 

Be not afraid. Motorcycle clutches are different from cars. They are wet (ride in oil) and have unique mechanics. What you are trying to do is basically shift from a high gear, 3rd, while every other part is stopped. The mainshaft prefers by design to be moving when you are downshifting otherwise the stress applied is really high-yes it will still shift sometimes but it will always be more difficult-and usually only once then you have to move the mainshaft to reset the pawl. 1st gear isn't the same and is designed to be shifted at a complete stop from N.

Best method if you are still at speed above 12mph is to blip your throttle and as the rpm's come down and match the mainshaft you can easily downshift and even use the motor for additional braking. This takes a little practice to get right but once you have it figured out it is easy and can help you stop. Otherwise just wait until you are below 12mph and begin your downshifting, but get to N or 1st before dead stop. I find this a little distracting though if I'm in top gear because of the time it takes when I'm needing to focus on stopping not shifting so I usually get down to at least 3rd before I get below 12mph.

If you are grinding while downshifting then your clutch needs some work or adjusting. When you first start out (from cold) 1st will almost always 'clunk' but once warmed up it should just 'notch' into place while moving.

 

I doubt it is free play in the clutch. Usually not enough free play and it will creep along while in gear with clutch in. Too much and the clutch will slip.

I think Merc's got this one right. Even with a brand new clutch pack and perfect adjustment on the clutch, it will not want to shift to first. Every bike I've ever owned has been this way, and the list is long.

I've never looked at the speedo when down shifting, I usually go by the sound of the motor. As you approach a stop, downshift to the next gear to use engine braking. When you get to third, brake until the motor sounds like it's at idle, then pull clutch and downshift to second, then when just about stopped downshift to first.

After many many months (or years) it will become second nature and you won't even realize you are doing it.

 

I will chime in, not in the technical bit (since I'm not that knowledgeable about how a bike clutch work )
But every bike I've ridden has the issue of not wanting to shift down when standing still on occasion (and in various degrees of seriousness).

Think the same applies when not being able to get it in to neutral without moving the bike a cm forward or backward.

 

sometimes you can run them through the gears when stopped but most of the time you need to rock them at least a little while you are shifting.

 

MM and Kaz have it right-- it's completely normal.

Due to the design of the gearbox, you won't be able to shift more than 1 gear in either direction (if that) without turning the output shaft (by moving the bike slightly.)

 

To elaborate on a related topic, when riding you always want to downshift to a stop, not coast it down and ride the brakes.

You have a lot of engine braking available, use it. Learning how to rev match a downshift so you're not barking the tire or snapping your neck each time you drop down a gear and let the clutch out is a useful skill...comes in handy when you need to downshift in a long curve, or in rain, etc...times when being able to keep your traction constant and not make the rear wanna kick out is critical...

But the biggest reason, in my mind, is that you always want to be in the appropriate gear to have decent acceleration should the need arise.

Suppose you're coming to a stop at the end of a highway exit ramp, and suddenly realize the car behind you is barreling up on you, oblivious, and about to punch your ticket. Correct gear for the speed? You'll blast the throttle, take the shoulder, and be outta harm's way.

Still in fourth of fifth gear at 30 mph? You're toast...see you in the ER...if you're lucky...

 

Its normal, You should be down shifting while comming to a stop anyway. You will end up in 1st gear ready to go.

 

X2 - Downshifting is what you should normally be doing anytime when coming to a stop. I always downshift, and then when slow in second, and then as i'm rolling to a stop i pull the clutch in and put it in first so i'm ready to go when the light turns green.

 

Being able to rev match comes in handy when your clutch cable breaks and you wanna ride it home without grenading all the cogs too

 

Thanks everyone. Valuable information supplied here. I was dreading the response of "you need yourself a total clutch rebuild".

Ill see if I can't figure out the "rev match". I had an old car I was able to downshift without the clutch as long as the rpms were just right and i understand this to be the same concept

big relief. Thanks again!

 

Yup, it is...on a down shift you blip the throttle as you clutch it, light foot pressure on the shifter, when the revs match the shifter will practically drop effortlessly. Once you get the feel you learn to know by ear what the motor should sound like one gear down at the speed you're at, and you get where you can catch the revs with throttle and hold it as you shift...

It takes a little practice on bikes because they rev so quickly and the optimal match range is narrower (timewise) than larger vehicles, but once you got it, it becomes second nature.

I used to drive big trucks and we don't use the clutch at all on them, except to stop and start...those cogs are so big and turn so slow you can actually put a little shifter pressure towards the next gear and feel the cogs going by without making contact...you're just feeling the hydrostatic pressure of gear oil film between the teeth and you can feel the gears come to a relative stop as engine and tranny synch, and just nudge the shifter and it'll grease in there perfectly smooth.

But with redlines below 2900 rpm, it's very easy to feel your way through them. Cars are a little harder. Bikes are a real skill....

Like I said though, it's pretty cool when you can downshift while leaned over hard or riding in slick conditions with perfect confidence that the rear's not gonna try to step out on ya...

 

I'm not going to condone shifting in a turn, but if I HAVE to, this is the only time I rev match while shifting down. For normal driving, it's a 3rd brake

 

I can run through the gears on my bike when she is sitting still. I have never done this when I have been riding and come to a stop. I always down shift when coming to a stop. But I have run it though the gears in my drive way.

 

Clutch? I don't need no stinking clutch. lol

Most of the time I only use the clutch when taking off and downshifting. Unless the traffic is slow and I cannot wind it out some. A bike shifts fine without one and I have been shifting that way since the 70s.
Downshifting sans clutch is doable but I seldom do so. You can blip the throttle to better match engine speed to the lower gear speed.
I have had to do that more than once when I had a busted clutch cable.