SIMPLE MOD MAY SOLVE POD TUNING HARDSHIPS!

The RickCoMatic Auxiliary Air Bypass.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The REAL Problem:

The Pods contribute to a LEAN Condition because a VORTEX forms at the INTAKE Horn LOWERING the Pressure at the Kidney Shaped Atmosphere Vent at the Top of the Intake Horn.

Because the Pressure is LOWERED, ... BOTH --> MAIN AIR Supply and the VOID in the Chamber surrounding the RUBBER DIAPHRAGM are starved for AIR.

This causes:
1) The Piston to NOT Rise as effectively as needed, ... and
2) The MAIN AIR needed to surround the Center Emulsion Tube that's essential for Siphoning the Fuel UP into the Intake Stream ... Plus --> Atomize the MAIN JET SUPPLIED Fuel is far less than required.

Before you attach the Pods, ...
SEAL each of the Kidney Shaped Vent Openings with Kidney Shaped Brass Coverlet silver soldered to make the Vent AIR TIGHT.
(Brass Shim Stock cut to size).

DRILL an Opening on the Carb Body beyond the Soldered Shut Vent.
Using Vac Hose or Tubing, ... Fabricate an Auxiliary Atmosphere Vent.
Connect the 1 & 4 Carb with an AUX VENT Hose (Passage) and place a "T-fitting in the Center with a Hose Vent secured between the Middle Carbs.

Likewise replicate an AUX AIR Passage for 2 & 3.

Having a supply of Atmosphere feeding the VOID beneath the Rubber Diaphragm will allow the Diaphragm to more quickly respond to Manifold Vacuum.
(Alleviating shimming)

The Atmosphere made present will also satisfy the MAIN AIR Jet's need for Atmosphere to be drawn-through the Main Air Jet Passage to the Emulsion Tube alleviating a Major Contribution to the LEAN Condition caused without sufficient AIR present.
(Possibly alleviating Power Band lag due to Mixture issues)

This Modification is:
The RickCoMatic Auxiliary Air Bypass © 01.11.12

(This rough sketch on parts carbs is a visual reference. A precise visual will be made when the Parts Carbs I bought to modify and photograph arrive.)



Have FUN with it!

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

So does this sentence indicate that you have not yet actually done this to a set of carbs?

And if that's the case, how do you know it will work? The theory is sound, but until actually tested I don't see how you can pronounce it to be a solution. There may be some other aspect of the situation that you hadn't taken into consideration.

I'd have to see the mod actually done, and tested, before I could call it a true solution.

Right now it's just a good theory.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

No.
I dont have a complete rack of my own to alter.

I ran a test blocking-off the Vent on a set that came in for cleaning.

Using washer fluid and a shop-vac ...
Vent left open showed fluid struggling to exit the E-tube.
Closed-off with a hose protruding from the vent held away from the horn showed a steadier flow of fluid leaving the E-tube and the Piston moved higher with a smoother motion.

I'm sure it would improve some if there was a way to mount the Pod to the Rubber Boot.

Shorty velocity stacks are 90-bucks.
I'm working on fabbed-up stacks, too.
Trying to keep the whole mod under 30-bucks.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

Wow
I tinker with a lot of ideas and have made things that have proven to be something worth promoting, but to promote as a fact an untested idea is scary stuff dude.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

It's innovative.
Easier than swapping jets.
Costs under 8-dollars.
Totally reversible.
A caveman could do it.

Pretend I'm Australian.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

Excuse me? Aren't you advocating soldering shut original passages in the carb; and then DRILLING NEW ONES???

Explain how "totally reversible" applies, please.

However, that wasn't the true objection. Both darkfibre and myself have expressed a strong objection to something being trumpeted as a "solution" when in fact, it is as yet UNTESTED.

Honestly Rick? For years I've seen you admonish folks for advising that members perform "irreversible" or "untested" mods on their bikes;

and now you're presenting this UNTESTED THEORY as a "solution."

I'm sorry, my friend; as of now this is NOT a "solution." It's an UNTESTED theory. I'm really surprised that you, of all people, would present it as "here, this will work" when all you have is an experiment with a shop vac, windshield washer fluid, and some tubing (no drilling.) That's a "lab experiment" not a real-world test. Not by a long shot.

Until this has been done to a rack of carbs; installed on a bike equipped with pods, and tested it simply isn't a proven solution. Just a (granted, good) theory; but a theory nonetheless.

Good thing I'm not Australian.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

You can say the same thing about Jetting.
Re-jetting is mostly guess work.

Say whatever you want about it that will make you happy.
The process alleviates the severe lean condition.

And if your objection against reversibility is that that Shim-stock Brass Coverlets soldered on to the Kidney-shaped Atmosphere Vents would be difficult to remove and a small hole drilled into the Body's not able to be plugged with a rubber grommet renders it irreversible ... you gotta be kidding me!

Go ahead and object to what I have proposed as a solution all you want.
If anyone tries it and doesn't like it, ... send me your Carbs and I will remove the Covers and Plug the small holes, ... for FREE!

There IS one thing I do expect to have said about this discovery when you pass the information on to someone else.

It was a relentless old man named Rick Massey who is the guy that figured it out.

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

Massey, if you're that relentless get a used rack, do the mod, and put them on a bike. If you don't want to pull your own airbox, ship them to a member who's struggling with pods, and see if it solves his problem.

Until this has been field tested, you simply cannot call it a solution.

It might be. Prove it. Right now it's only a theory and can't be anything more until... proven.

You're engineer enough to know that. C'mon now.

 

There, ...

I rewrote the Thread Headline.

Removed: Solves.
Added: "May"

 

if someone can solder brass to aluminum they can do anything

 

Re: SIMPLE MOD SOLVES TUNING FOR PODS. Easy as 1 - 2 - 3 !!!

Now I understand properly.


You're taking the piss.

 

I realize the best advice to give someone hoping to have a well tuned bike after he had demolished the air box and installed air pods has been:
"You gotta re-jet"
Everybody says it. That's what you do. Re-jet.
Again, ... and again ... once more ... almost got it. Close, but no cigar.

There are formulas for rejetting written down that are supposed to be precisely what to do depending on how you have accessorized.
Worthless.
There's a mountain of posts and follow-up posts from those who followed the formula ... weren't successful, so, ... the advice starts to become desperate shots-in-the-dark to try this and that or some other thing.

Rejetting really isn't the answer to the problem, though, is it?
Why, ... if a larger jet was installed ... did the problem persist?

Because the Fuel wasn't getting pulled-up-out of the Emulsion Tube with sufficient volume to provide an ideal air-fuel ratio.

If you have just-about had enough of hearing somebody tell you to rejet, washer, shim, bigger this, smaller that, ... keep trying ...

Instead of rejetting again, ... try something new.

Pull the Top Rail.
Drill a small hole in the top of the atmosphere vent just beyond the Air Boot Mounting Band.
Seal the Kidney shaped opening on the front of the horn.
That's it.

Be as spartan or elaborate as you please.
Hoses, fittings, tubing, grommets, threaded fittings and the like can be added to make it look like Star Wars or Formula-1.
(R-C Model Fuel Hose and fittings would be bitchin')
Make sure that the Cover gets on the Vent Opening in a manner that is secure.
I might try Epoxy adhesive with Balsa, ... coated with hardener.
(Something that wont harm anything should it get loose.)

Good luck.
Have fun.
Argue and discuss.
No charge.
Your welcome.

 

If I'm reading this right, rather than sealing off the entire opening and drilling a replacement hole elsewhere, wouldn't merely reducing the size of the opening have the same effect?

As for being able to reverse the procedure, perhaps fashioning a press-in plug made of sufficiently heat-tolerant material?

 

Ya know what? I like this guy! I personally think that we need more people like this that think outside the box. I do have a question though. If I remember correctly the little kidney shaped vent provides atmospheric air to the top of the main jet diaphragm correct? With that said would it not be better to actually plug the kidney shaped port and just modify the diaphragm cover as opposed to drilling a hole in the carb body?

 

The top of the diaphragm is subject to the Venturi that it is, in fact, controlling, thru a small hole at the bottom of the slider-piston. This is low-enough pressure to lift the slider-piston and compress the spring.

The "Kidney" vent vents to the UNDERNEATH surface of the diaphragm, and also supplies air to the main emulsion tube. This air needs to be at "atmospheric" pressure and PODS disrupt the normal inlet airflow, causing there to be "less-of-a-difference" in these critical metering systems.

That's the theory and I'm sticking to it.

 

Dang Rick, pretty tough crowd.....In the past year or so I've read enough of what you've written to have gained a great deal of respect for you ESPECIALLY on these types of carbs and on this particular point, I 100% agree that this solution would work as advertized. I sure didn't expect the reaction you of all people, received. Not really directed at anyone in particular but I think that if I had a "means and methods" issue with another man over anything, I'd direct it directly to him and not air my laundry....but that's just me.

I feel bad for you but know that you're a big boy and won't let it deter your experimentation.

I belong to a Kaw triples forum where all the "forum originals" hands get tossed up in the air whenever someone even suggests a performance mod they haven't already "blessed". They actually believe the hype that they're riding bikes that will wheelie in the first three gears.....because they've never twisted the throttle to the stop to find out that it won't! I found it amusing at first but it's a real problem now and they all hate me because not only have I heavily modified one of my own H2's, but help the youngers guys mod theirs. "how could anyone sane want more power" was actually written to me in a pm....implying that I must have lost my sanity along the way. I assured him that I hadn't, then let him know that possibly a KZ400 would be better suited to someone of his riding ability...and knowledge level....but I'll enjoy my fully ported H2. One of my forum friends is getting the crap kicked out of him now because he's working again on a 3-1 expansion chamber.....yes, none have worked SO FAR but that doesn't mean his revisions WON'T work but you would have thought that he just said Denco pipes are junk from the reactions.....all from people that really don't know if his revised system will work or not.

Of course MY solution for installing pods on my bike, if it were possible(which it isn't) would be to trash the Constantly Vucked carbs and go with a set of slide or flat slides and eliminate the problem altogether

Have I ever mentioned that I hate CV carbs?

All in fun......

jeff

 

Once you start drilling holes your going to need to know what size hole, that's going to be a educated guess. I'll guess 3/8 to 1/2 inch, pretty big, but who knows, it's a guess.
I did see, on the web somewhere, someone try something like this by modifing the pod to not cover that opening but turbulance behind the motor at speed complacted matters
(No spell check on the fone)

 

There's always more than one way to skin a cat.

The Chamber BELOW the Diaphragm NEEDS atmosphere.
The Diaphragm needs to be able to collapse and there needs to be Air to be drawn through the Main AIR Jet to surround the Emulsion Tube aiding the siphon and atomizing of Main Jet Fuel.

Placing a Hose in the Vent, ... then sealing the Vent and running the Hose to a point away from the Strong Flow of Intake Air will do the trick.

Isolate the Vent from a Pressure Reducing Air Flow over it. (Somehow)!
Without the possibility of whatever you do to implement the Mod not winding-up getting loose and getting sucked-in the Cylinder.

I tend to "Over-Engineer".
I want external tubing, fittings and a painted Air Filter with a fake adjustment knob stuck to it, ... to make it look like a Faux Nitros hook-up.

Holes, Foam-rubber squares and Rubber Bands being the Hillbilly-hook-up.

 

I went back and read all the responses to the last few pod debates, and there seems to be one very simple solution. Further, the one or two folks running it report decent to good results.

I'm talking about "isolating" the pod filter and it's little "wad" of turbulence from the carb mouth by using some form of velocity stack; either the airbox-to-carb boots, or hunks of thinwall aluminum tubing.

I have my own theory on this, and I have no intention of trying to test it because I have abolutely no reason to try to run pods on CV carbs.

Theory being this: We already pretty much know that the "finger over the end of the garden hose" effect of a properly engineered intake restriction will increase the velocity of a given volume of fluid (hose)/air (airbox.)

We also have pretty much figured out that there's a "turbulence" issue with pods that drives CV carbs wonky.

Close examination of a carb-to-airbox boot reveals it to not be straight at all; it has a subtle taper inside-- OMG it's a rubber velocity stack.

I think that's the real solution, or at least a major part of it. CV carbs need velocity stacks, so Yamaha cleverly built them into those pesky boots. CV=Constant velocity. We already hammered our "constant" when we removed the carefully restrictive airbox; but we can escape the turbulence issue, straighten out our airflow and regain some velocity with stacks.

PUT THE PODS ON "STACKS" and I'll bet that with some minor re-jetting you'll get back most of what you lost when the airbox went away.

I think streetbrawler750 is onto something: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/download/id=8400.html

No drilling required.

 

Funny, the kidney port is subject to the highest vacuum loads with a totally stock airbox and filter arrangement yet the carbs work perfectly from the factory. The highest vacuum will occur just after the narrowest part of the carb throat (near the vena contracta) and will overpower any vacuum created under the diaphragm by the kidney port which is right at the carb bellmouth opening. The top of the diaphragm, subject to the deeper vacuum at or near the carb throat through the piston vent hole, will have more pull than the bottom, and the piston will open.

A piston on the intake stroke will also draw a much deeper vacuum than a shop vac.

I'd think twice before drilling into the body of my obsolete carbs.