Smoke after oil change

I finally completed my oil change after my oil filter plug debacle. I went to start it up and everything seemed great for about a min. Then she started smoking out the exhaust and it looks like from somewhere on the front of the bike but I don't see anything obvious. It continued to smoke for about a min and then died. It'll start back up but won't hold idle.

I used valvoline 4 stroke 20w-50.

Thoughts on best way to proceed?

 

How much oil did you put in it APE12

 

A smidge over 2.5 quarts. letting it's settle now after running it a bit, but when I shut it down earlier it was about halfway on the sight gauge.

 

Ok now it looks like the sight gauge may be over full. I guess I could try and let a little out??

 

2.5 Sounds about right with filter and middle gear drained. Takes a while for all the oil to settle back down 10 min or so

 

Ok I think I've got the oil qty issue resolved. Not so much a smoke problem, but still sounds rough at idle compared to what it did.

 

That would probably be because may have now oil-fouled the air filter. Might want to check, that'll kill your fuel economy.

For a 550, 200cc overfill from the specified 2200cc is about perfect. You want it all the way at the top of the sight glass, with the bike on the centerstand or held vertical and the engine off for at least 10 minutes prior.

 

Ok. It's gotten more bizarre. Here's what I can tell so far. I'll leave it to the guru's. Alright all I did was change the oil. Bike was running fine for the most part prior to the oil Change. I drove it around the parking lot for 5-10 mins. Nothing hard on the engine.

Symptoms:
Rough idle
Smoke around the headers
When I shut the bike down it pissed gasoline from somewhere at the bottom of the bike. Can't determine from where, nothing seems wet.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great, I'm fresh out of ideas on this one.

 

Did you maybe bump the petcock to "PRI" and now have discovered a completely new issue like a stuck float?

Smoke generally comes from something burning off the outside, unless it's "puffing" out. Did you have a spill during the oil change?

What did you find when you looked in the air filter? You asked for suggestions and I already suggested that. Pull the air filter and have a look; might want to have some shop towels handy to clean up what I suspect you'll find there.

 

I don't believe I pumped the petcock to pri, and we even pulled off the tank and it wasn't putting out gas. So I don't think it's the petcock. It's like I said, it just leaked after I stopped the bike and then stopped after a few seconds, but it was a lot of gas for that few seconds. I didn't yank the airfilter because I felt it best to walk away from the bike as I was getting frustrated. However, I did pop the bottom screws to see if gas came out there. However in hindsight, I suppose it wouldn't if it had all flowed out a drain. Now that I've had time to think about it, it would make sense that the gas was coming out the airbox considering I couldn't see an external leak and it looked like it was coming out of the bottom of the bike directly under the airbox. So let's assume the worst and the filter has fuel on it right now.

 

Does your bike have 03 painted on the sides and answer to, Herbie ? I am sorry after reading your post I just have this picture in my head of your bike pissing gas after you worked on it.

 

Ya know. It's not a bad analogy. And I am starting to think this bike has a mind of it's own. I just wish it wasn't spending it's time thinking of ways to mess with me instead of wanting to drive around.

 

Maybe you should find a sexy red Seca for him worked in the movie

 

I used to do "Hot Bike" oil changes.
Get the Oil hot and let it all run-out until it stops dripping.

Somehow, I'd get a bit of Oil on the top of the Exhaust Collector.
Smoked real bad when the Bike was started-up, later.

Now, I make a little "Drainage Ramp" out of Tin Foil to keep the Oil off the top of the collector.

 

Rick, the thing that confuses me is the smoke is coming from higher on the engine. Almost from where the headers attach to the cylinders. At least as best I can tell.

At first I actually thought it was the valve cover, but it really did look like it was coming from the headers. Only thing I can think of is I sprayed the header bolts with some liquid wrench in case I had to pull them off to get the oilf filter bolt off. But that was days ago, and I'd think the smoke would have cleared pretty quick if it was some kind of residual effect.

 

to paraphrase Bill Engvall, "there's your sign!"

Liquid wrench hangs around for quite a while and does what it's supposed to do-- penetrate. It'll take a while to all burn out/off. THAT'S your header smoke; worry about the other end of the bike.

And stop making assumptions; LOOK at the air filter and smell it, etc.

 

Yeah, that penetrating oil will smoke like crazy. Been there done that, lol.

That gas was coming from your airbox, and as fitz says, you need to pull the filter out and most likely clean it.

It seems like an unrelated problem has crept up during the oil change. Which is definitely fuel flowing when it shouldn't. Maybe one of your float valves just now decided to stick open.

Like most people do, your probably going to ask why and insist that it was fine beforehand, but shit happens!

I used to work at a Ford dealership, and it seemed common for someone to come in for something simple, like an oil change or even wiped blades, and all of a sudden when they're done and get ready to pull the car out, the starter craps out. Next thing you know the cuatomers yelling and screaming about how we somehow ruined their starter by changing a headlight bulb or something stupid.

 

I'm willing to accept the herbie line of reasoning for the oil change induced fuel problem. I was an aircraft mech for a while and I understand the theory of stuff just breaks. However, I worked on jets, so I'll admit, carbs are a bit of a mystery to me.

I assume there is no easy way to verify the float problem and/or fix it without tearing apart the carbs? I was hoping to push off the carb rebuild a couple months but if I'm gonna open them up anyway....

Also, since fuel made it to the airbox, what should I do/be concerned about for the rest of the engine?

Thanks again

 

There's that word again... ASSUME.

How about we LOOK? THEN discuss possibilities.

What did you find when you LOOKED IN THE AIRBOX? Took out the air filter and inspected it?

And yes, you can verify float level and function without ripping apart the carbs; although the process IS easier with the rack off and on the bench, it can even be done on the bike, providing all of your drain screws are free.

What manual are you using, the Clymer or a factory book?

 

I have a factory book. And unfortunately all I can do for the moment is make some assumptions. I'm at work right now and can't check the bike. When I get home I can take a look at the filter.

 

Excellent. Once I also get home, I can "steer" you to the pages in the factory book that illustrate how to check the float levels with the carbs still on the bike, and add some info that will make it easier.

 

That would be much appreciated.

 

Ok. This will come as no surprise, but the filter definitely took a fuel bath. So what's the next plan of attack?

 

Are you allowed to play with matches?

 

Probably not. I'd be too tempted to light this bike on fire right now. lol

 

It can get frustrating keep your sense of humor remember it is a machine and it is out to get you. Sounds like you have the skill set all you need is a little inside knowledge. Fitz will fill you in and things will start to make sense

 

Oh I'm keeping a level head about it so far. I enjoy working on it and getting it up to snuff. Just would appreciate it if the bike would let me fix it in the order I want to.

 

I thought we already had a plan. Check the float levels and see if we have a renegade.

Gimme a break >single parent+old guy< I just got home and go figure, the crew wants feeding. XJ running 9 kinds of awesome, BTW. About 122 miles today.

I'll post you some tips, pointers and a walkthrough of what the manual is trying to say. The factory book can be a real hoot sometimes; I believe it to have been translated by a Norwegian with a major in Japanese who believed his second language was English.

No arson, please. The paperwork is too complicated.

 

Well the only concrete plan I knew for sure was to stop making assumptions and to check the fuel filter. lol.

I "assumed" that it confirmed that the float bowl should be checked next, but Figured I'd wait for a more knowledgable opinion. I'm glad to hear your XJ is running well. I believe someday mine will too.

Anyway, I did find it in the service manual, which was... vague isn't a bad word for it. I do get the gist of it, but I was waiting on the tips. In particular if you have any thoughts on how to easily duplicate the attachement for the tube. I assume any 1/4 clear tube will suffice for the rest?

Also, out of curiousity, let's say that hypothetically one of the floats is sticking. What all parts would I need to fix it and or would a full carb clean/rebuild be more appropriate?

I asked chacal for a parts list for a carb rebuild and um.... It pretty much blew my mind with information overload.

 

I have found when reading Chacals literature that beers help. Unfortunately the sheer amount that Chacal has written has turned me into an Alcoholic.

 

I know it. A huge wealth of information that I'm incredibly greatful for. But when you open up a novel sized email of a myriad of parts that you're really not sure what they are and then toss in alternative aftermarket versions....all on an iphone screen.....yea, intimidation in it's purest form.

 

i tried the iphone thing...it's rough man. way too much info to digest on that little screen. if you're going into the carbs...why not do it right. i'm forever indebted to rickomatic and chacal for all the info they put out of these carbs. i was shaking in my boots precarb overhaul. now i can honestly say it's not bad at all. read everything over and over and over until you understand it thoroughly. here's rickomatic's http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2 ... n+own.html and here's some of chacal's http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14751.html http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14692.html and here's the monstrosity of a catalog chacal has http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14561.html this is all the info i used to do my carbs...and when i was done i bench synced them with this excellent post by Gamuru http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=6 ... +sync.html
good luck

 

Project,

I've read a lot of those a couple times already, and even for a second thought I' had my head at least in the ball park of wrapped around doing an overhaul. Then I read Chacal's email and my confidince went down the drain.

So let me ask you this, since you've done the whole overhaul. What's the minimum you would buy part/tool wise before opening them up? If I read the email right I'm looking at a couple hundred in parts, mostly because I don't know what's neccessary to be changed vs. what falls into the "as needed" category.

 

Finding a sneaky leak can be frustrating.

Get a Bright Flashlight and really go looking for the source of the Nile.
You might find some suspicious looking areas.
Remember them.

Clean.
I use the device in the picture.
Hooked-up to a Garden Hose it mixes detergent right at the spigot.
Mix a Milk-jug full of water and a whole bottle of Dawn Dish Detergent.
Stick the Feed Hose in the Milk Jug and Spray the Engine with Scrubbing Bubbles.
When the Dawn Mix is gone, ... block off the Feed Hose with a Golf Tee.
Now, you have Plain Water Rinse.

Let Dry.
Now, do "Leak Detection"

Blow some Baby Powder at the suspected leaks.
Run it.
Stop and look at where you blew-on the Baby Powder.
A LEAK will show-up as a darkened area on the Powder.

http://growerssolution.com/page/GS/PROD/siphon-mixer

 

if the parts email len sent you is confusing, i would keep reading the catalog until it makes sense. i honestly think it's harder to study and learn this stuff than it was to actually do it. make sure you have plenty of carb cleaner, varying grits of "wet or dry" sandpaper from appx 600-1500, compressed air with a rubber tip so you can really press the nozzle up against different passages in the carbs, possibly a screw extractor you can chuck into a drill to free any seized bolts, some silicon grease, gasket sealer, i used some toothpicks for hard to clean areas and varying gauges of thin wire for different passages, the right sized drill bit or similar item for the tiny "choke" jet in the fuel bowl (len has the right size), i needed an exacto knife to get the hardened gaskets off the float bowls, i didn't, but many seem to need and recommend the jis drivers for the butterflies. this is all i can think of off hand. i'm sure others can and do, but i couldn't have done it without any of these or similar items. as far as the minimum parts you'll need, i really don't think i have enough experience to answer that. and it will all depend on what you find once you're in there. i replaced everything except the jets (which i still plan to do), the diaphragm/piston and its needle and spring, and asthetic parts like the carb hats and stainless hardware (which i also plan to do soon). i honestly have no idea if i needed all of this right now, but i plan on riding this bike for a long long time so i figure it's now or later. that's another thing to consider...what do you want out of the bike? do you just want to "keep it running"? or do you want it running as good as possible for as long as possible? if so, i'm sure you've read how you have to check/adjust the valves, vacuum sync and colortune/plug chop. it's definitely overwhelming to consider all these things but just know that if you do decide the go the whole nine yards the people on this site can give you all the help you'll need. good luck

 

Well that's where I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I really just want to get the bike up and running so I can play around riding it some for now. The original plan was to hit up the complete tune up this winter. Hitting the whole valve, carb clean, and sync all in one sitting. The problem I'm having right now is due to some of the stuff I've already had to do to the bike and the cost of purchasing the bike, funds are starting to run a little low for the bike budget. Heck, I still haven't even had the chance to do the rear brake change (let's face it, if I open the brakes up there will be delam).

I'd really just like to reach a point where the wallet stops bleeding for a few weeks and I get to ride this thing some. At the same time, if I'm going to fix something I'd prefer to do it right.

 

The key to doing the carbs is to tear them down and see what you actually NEED. Don't simply assume that everything will need to be replaced; quite often all you need are the o-rings and gaskets.

But you gotta look. Here's a photographic exploded view of the Mikuni BS28s that are on your bike: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=31061.html

In section 4 of your factory service manual, it covers (not very thoroughly) the basic tear-down and inspection procedures.

Also in section 4; page 4-4 and 4-5, it details checking the float levels with the carbs on the bike. Step 5, however, is completely useless and just confuses things. All they're doing in Step 5 is trying to make sure the bike is level from side-to-side.

Skip Step 5; instead use a small carpenters' level or string level placed on the upper carb rack rail to get the bike level from side-to-side.

There's also some babble about lining the carbs up vertically; what they mean is that the bike needs to be propped up in the front so that the carbs are level, front-to-back. If you put the bike on the centerstand on a chunk of 3/4" or 1" plywood, you can raise the front end enough to get the carbs level, then put a jackstand or similar under the front frame cross-tube to support it.

The idea is to get the RACK perfectly level front to back and side to side; much easier to check with a level.

As far as what to use to attach the tubing to the carbs' drain holes, I use a little plastic tube coupler fitting that I "whittled down." It either came from my Mity-Vac kit or the auto parts store, I don't remember which. The "factory tool" is brass and has an o-ring on it; it's nearly impossible to use without slicing the o-ring so it's been retired to the tool box as memorabilia.

If you want to make the whole ordeal a tad easier on yourself, pick up a Clymer manual as well. Although a lot of the photos still suck, it explains some things in a bit more detail; I've found the best bet is to have both.

And to answer one of your more specific questions: what needs to be done to fix a sticky/improperly adjusted float is pull the float bowl, pop out the pin and clean/examine the float needle and the seat. Clean the needle, replace IF worn or damaged, polish the seat (replace IF cannot be polished smooth) and reassemble with a new o-ring on the needle seat. Then check the level and adjust only if needed.

Remember: You CAN check the float levels with the carbs on the bike; however you need to pull the rack to adjust (or repair.) It's MUCH EASIER to pull the rack and "mount" it level on your workbench than to try to do it on the bike, trust me.

Make sense? Hopefully this helps; if not, ask more specific questions and we'll see what we can do.

The most important single factor in "doing it right" is PATIENCE.

 

That was kinda my plan too. Get it running until winter, then fix EVERYTHING and polish and paint EVERYTHING over the winter. At this point though, I might as well just completely tear it down. There ain't much time left to ride and I don't even have parts yet, or the $

 

Alright since it could be a bit until I get the carbs up to snuff, I have a follow up question. We know the gas made it to the airbox. Does that mean it hit the oil supply as well? Basically, what needs to be done to the rest of the engine because of this?

 

We do? Did you open up the airbox, remove the filter and look?

IF the oil got gas-polluted, then you need to change the oil. (Again, sorry.)

Open the filler, and stick your nose right in the hole and have a whiff.

You'll know. A faint gas-ish odor, more smelling like slightly burnt oil, is normal. If it reeks of gasoline more than anything else, then change the oil.

You should be able to tell right off the whiff.

 

I opened up the Airfilter housing and the filter/housing reeked of gas. I'll open the oil filter tonight hopefully. If it ha gas in it, is it better to let it drain now and sit with out oil for a week or two or I it ok to let it sit as is. I have a hunch on the answer but figure I'll ask. Thanks

 

Oil FILLER cap, not filTer. And give a whiff.

It can sit in there, rather than the motor sit with no oil in it.

 

Gotcha. Didn't get a chance to mess with it last night anyway.