So is synthetic oil a real No-No?

Hey guys, brandy new here. I have a pair of '82 650 Secas (non turbo). Just finished getting the runner together- its a long story that I'll tell another time, but its only got 3,300 original miles on it. I'm ready to do an oil change on it to dump the cheap oil I put in it after the motor was apart for 5 years (just put 35 miles on it and want to change it as a "flush"). I bought Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil for it, as that's what I run in my other 4 strokes, but none of them are electric start. All the starter clutch threads here have me a bit nervous. I want to run the top quality oil, but I'm not looking for another reason to pull the motor out and apart (a second time...). Thoughts? Do any of y'all run Mobil 1?

Thanks!

-Drew

 

synthetic can cause problems with the starter clutch, I think the semisynthetic i is more acceptable.
2 links for you to read

Choosing Oil for a Wet Clutch Motorcycle

The Information Overload Hour

 

Yea I read the overload article and the church of clean. I read lots of the links in those as well, its a shame most of the photos are missing.

 

Doesn't exactly answer my question though- is anyone running synthetic or Mobil 1 with success? I guess I could just continue to run cheap oil and change it more frequently.

 

how many miles do you think you will get out of the syn oil between changes?
to partialy answer your question some here do run synthetic oils with success and some run it with poor results.
my guess is it would all be on how good of condition your starter clutch is in.

 

as you can see you have a
yes
and
1/2 yes
to synthetic oil

 

Any JASO MA rated oil will be fine. Any synthetic or semi-senthetic that is not JASO MA rated will cause starter clutch and possible transmission clutch slippage. Mobil 1 is a definite no-go.

 

Alright, thanks guys! Glad I asked. I an Enduro guy, and I run Mobil 1 in my off road and dual sport bikes; change the oil about once a year which works out to be much less than 3k, but they are HARD miles haha. Ill shelve the expensive stuff and just go with something more basic for this machine. JASO MA rated, got it!

 

Expensive does not always mean better. It just means expensive. Form a practial and technical standpoint the only consistent difference between an expensive oil and a cheap store-brand oil is marketing costs.

 

This should be a banner. Abide, dude.

 

I've run Mobil 1 motorcycle oil and Amsoil Motorcycle oil in my XJ700 with no problems. My bike has about 15,000 mile on it.

 

Cool beans. I just looked, and the Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil is JASO MA rated. The V-Twin is not. Neither one used to be.
It's cool to see so many synthetics being re-formulated to meet the needs of classic motorcycles.

 

Drew,
By default your icon makes you a good fit in this group . . . . Do you like bacon also?

 

I love bacon.

I own over a dozen bikes, have been working on bikes professionally and casually for around 20 years, more if you count helping dad around the garage as a kid. The avatar is a FAH-Q racing graphic. Look them up, you wont be disappointed.

I have never heard any concerns about synthetic (motorcycle) oils until I came across this forum. Of course I know not to put non-motorcycle specific oils in bikes, but I honestly never considered the starter sprag specifically.

Regarding expensive not being better...I am a full supporter of Mobil 1, although I can make no honest claims that it is better than any other synthetic oil. I have run multiple cars, trucks and motorcycles well past their expected limits on Mobil 1 with amazing results. My '92 Nissan D21 pickup was sold last summer with 270k on the motor- I ran Mobil 1 in it since the day I bought it with 150k. When it drove away, there was not a single tick, knock or puff of smoke. The motor ran like a sewing machine. Same with my Husky dual sport- that motor gets run HARD and put away wet and muddy. I change the oil once a year. Along with the high-rpm MX four strokes- they get changed a bit more frequently (twice a year). So the high cost doesn't matter when it lasts longer.

The Seca has just 3,3xx miles on the ticker. I had the cases split to replace a broken lower case, which is why it was parked some 25 years ago. Due to life and some other circumstances, the motor sat apart (upside down, lower case off, covered with a rag) on a shelf in my garage for about 5 years. I put the cheap oil in it upon finally assembling and starting it this spring knowing that I was going to drop it after the first 50 miles as a flush, and replace it with what I really wanted to run in the motor. Plus, with the crank bearings needing to get "re-seated", I wanted a non-synthetic oil to allow them to run in.

 

just watched dazed and confused yesterday while it was snowing

 

I graduated High School in 1976. With the exception of the "paddles" it nailed my high school culture.
Kegs at the river
Cars
"Cliques" - burnouts, gear heads, jocks, nerds (me), etc.
Music, hairstyles, clothing.

It was like having flashbacks...

 

My dad (graduated 77) told me the most innacurate thing about that movie was that all the cars they drove were so nice. He said in reality, everyone drove beater, hand-me-down cars, and that only the rich/privileged kids had nice/new cars.

 

That's true of many period dramas - nearly every car being driven by anyone is in cracking condition, which was very far from the truth. Just occasionally the plot calls for the main or secondary character to drive a scrapheap, but it's rare.

 

Clutch slippage with the use energy-saving oils in wet-clutch motorcycles is well documented, and was a big problem in the 1990's, though it did not effect all motorcyle models equally. It was more of a problem for older motorcycles (specifically those built in the 80's and before) The issue with synthetics was that most were formulated to be very close to the automotive energy saving standard, leading to clutch slippage. The JASO MA standard was developed specifically to address the problem of clutch slippage brought on by not just synthetics, but all oils with friction modifiers. Oil formulations are constantly changing, and in the last three or four years there have been a number of motorcycle specific synthetic oils brought on to the market that are meet the JASO MA spec, so I think that eventually it won't be a probem to just pick any bottle of motorcyle oil and use it.

 

Good news. I just stopped by WalMart and checked Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil, 10w-40, 20w-50 (V-Twin), and Racing Oil, and all are now rated JASO-MA.

 

I'm getting the same feeling I got when Bill Gates and Steve Jobs agreed to work on cross-platform-compatible operating systems. Hurray for companies that want universal standards!!

 

I was not rich/privileged had a nice 67 GTO, 68 442 and 69 firebird , I guess it was all in what you spent your money on and how much you wanted to work for the "nice Cars"

 

Everyone has their own preference concerning the choice of oils. Hopefully, reaching it involved their experiences and those of others. Mine is Amsoil. 76,000 on the XJ. Might be luck or synthetic oil.

 

Everyone he knew drove ratted out straight-6 cars/wagons or VWs. Kudos to you for having a nice car in HS. I know he worked hard for his Beetles and Thing.

 

Synthetic Mobil 1 motorcycle oil made my starter clutch spin like a bag of marbles, it took about 2 years before it happened. I flushed it out twice using mineral oil and it never happened again. It’s not Mobil fault, it’s the synthetic oil from any manufacture. I had used AMSOIL too with the same spinning results.

 

I would imagine if everything was new on your motorcycle starter clutch, drive clutch, that you may not have any trouble whatsoever using synthetic oil. If your clutch is worn ,you starter clutches got many miles on it things may start slipping. Many people have success with the synthetic many do not. I look at it this way synthetic was not specced for the bike so I do not use it.

 

Is the damage sometimes permanent from using synthetic? Or does just switching back to regular oil fix the issue?

 

Typically no, because as soon as the clutch starts slipping, youre gonna stop riding..... since it slips so bad. Then you realize why, and drain the oil and put good old Dino juice in and the problem goes away.

I still just use Yamalube 10w40 in all my XJ’s

 

Some have had success changing back to conventional oil. May require a little flushing of the starter clutch or a couple of oil changes. I don't know if seafoam would help remove the synthetic oil.
I don't think it does damage as much as it is as it is slippier formulated to penetrate into the smallest of parts tighter tolerances of the modern motors.
I find it cost more than conventional oil so I don't understand why somebody would use something that they don't need to but oil being oil that's a personal choice.

 

For years I have used
Shell Rotella T4 Triple Protection Conventional 15W-40 Diesel Engine Oil

Great stuff, cheap, no issues.

 

I bought this for my bike. Not tried it yet but it is JASO MA2 rated.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smith-Allan-Motorcycle-Semi-Synthetic/dp/B00FGRCLB8

 

I am in the process of switching from Castrol Actevo 10W-40 to Rotella T4 15W-40. Never had a problem with the Castrol, it is just that the T4 is cheaper, and I never come close to putting on enough miles to warrant an oil change (I change annually, at least), so it just feels less wasteful.

Looks like the Rotella T6 is JASO rated if one really wanted to try some synthetic. Probably what I would do if I put on enough miles.

 

I do find that the discussions about oil are pretty interesting.

Seems like there are a lot of religious beliefs out there.

As @k-moe has said before, standards are standards. If an oil is JASO certified, whatever that means, it should be good.

Just because you experienced a major failure while a certain oil was in the engine does not mean that the failure was caused by that oil. In other words, correlation is not causation.

I guess oil is just one of those things that people will always have religious beliefs about, but there is very little hard data to back anything up - other than we do know that modern day friction modifiers are bad for wet clutches.

So if you put in a synthetic with friction modifiers and your clutch slips, it's not the synthetic oil that is the problem, it is the additive package. And yet, it is very easy for someone to say "I used X synthetic oil and my clutch slipped" - that is a useless statement without stating if you used something JASO rated or not.

 

If you are looking for data...send for analysis. $20 if I remember correctly.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

In my direct experience it's time and mileage that are more responsible for slipping clutches than anything else.
Sure, I had a slightly slipping clutch after I filled with synthetic, but that clutch had done 90K hard-fought back-road miles by then.
A top-end rebuild a year or two later saw me replacing the friction plates (and fitting new OEM springs) as part of that overhaul and I've been using synth oil since then with no slippage.

 

I have found the Mobil 1 4T 10W40 to be good. I had previously tried Amsoil 20W50 and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50, and both of those made the starter clutch slip. The Amsoil wasn't as bad as the Mobil 1. With the Mobil 1 20W50 the starter clutch was useless. Drained and refilled with the Mobil 1 10W40 and it was immediately fine.

I like synthetic in these bikes, though, because the oil gets very hot compared to water cooled engines and conventional oils will break down pretty quickly at those temperatures.

 

I have used conventional oil since my XJ550 was new from the showroom. I do oil changes every season or 2k miles, whichever comes first. Approaching 30k miles and no clutch or engine issues.

I admit I don't do a lot of hard, long distance traveling anymore, especially in really hot weather. I love my car AC too much.

 

I think you are correct on that thought.
if your bike has a new clutch and starter clutch synthetic should give you no issues.
if it has old clutches why poke the dragon.