Start button / Safety relay problem?

Oops ! Repost from lounge chat. Realized I posted in wrong forum--

So I did a bit of poking around in the forums trying to find answers from a similar question thats already been asked, but no dice. I am running into the classic "push the start button and nothing happens at all" issue.
No click from the starter trying to engage, no engine cranking over, just zip. I can get it to crank over by bridging solenoid though.
Recent changes to the bike have been: a new set of levers for the handle bars. while doing this I noticed that the wire to my start button was hanging loose! The wire (blue-white) to the start button (and not the black ground or the red/whites for the kill switch) was some how severed a while back and reconnected by simply wrapping electrical tape around the twisted ends! So I reattached these connected ends using marine grade connector with heat shrink tubing and tested wire successfully for continuity(by the way,what gauge is this wire and can I re-solder in a new length to give me a little more room to work with? It seems to be too taut now between the harness and the handle bar control)
Nothing happens when in neutral and holding clutch in and kickstand up too and start button is pushed. Help!

 

Oh, I also tested the start wire for continuity with the ignition on and the kill switch off by testing at the base of the solder connection to button assembly. The start wire, the kill switch wires all have solid connections. There is an additional (3rd) wire coming from the start button assembly that goes to nothing as it has been clipped by a previous owner a while ago. I imagine that its corresponding wire is the one I found bent back and wrapped up to the harness that apears to be a black wire that goes to nothing. Since it already has a ground wire not sure wwhat that old wire is for, but it didnt appear to be connected when the bike started previously.
I also checked to make sure the safety switch on the kickstand is not sticking, and I am holding the clutch in so the safety switch there should not be depressed either.

Sorry for the epic long post, just trying to give all the facts in case any one had any ideas!

 

WAAYY long list of possibilities from a wiring issue to a bad solenoid and all sorts of stuff in between.

PM me with an email address and I'll send you the 550 Maxim wiring diagram and starting circuit diagnostic from the factory book.

 

When you push in the starter button, you are actually completing a circuit, allowing the Blue/white wire to ground itself to the control switch housing (and the black wire). By completing the circuit, you are allowing the starter relay/solenoid to be triggered..........the blue/white wire is the starter solenoid/relay "trigger" wire.

 

Hi Chacal! By the way you are the fastest shipper know in the motorcycle world! Thank you for getting me that carb rebuild kit and other tools so fast. You are unbeatable.

So I am thinking that maybe its the solenoid that has died on me? I can lay a screwdriver across thee starter posts and kick the engine over that way and the start button (starter relay) wire seems to have a good connection so it should complete the ciruit when button is depressed and since there is no clicky noises the fault is laying in the starter relay and or solenoid?

 

Undo the Wire at the Solenoid and see if the Switch is letting current reach the Solenoid.

If Power is arriving at the wire that triggers the Solenoid; you just replace the Solenoid ...

Or ...

Unsolder the connections on the Solenoid and have a look at what's causing the problem.
While the Solenoid is opened-up ... Use an Ignition File and Dress the Points.

Alternatively, a Solenoid from a Lawn Tractor will suffice.
$12.98 at most Outlets.

 

Bridge, you're more than welcome!

Try running a jumper wire from that blue/white wire (inside the control switch) to a good known ground (the negative battery post is ideal) and see if that kicks the starter over.

If that doesn't do it, you have to start checking all of the other components......diode block, kickstand SWITCH, kickstand RELAY, starter circuit cut-off RELAY, etc.

Make sure that none of the small square "can" relays were inadventantly switched from their correct harness positions. Most of the safety relays are of a 4-pin design, and they will physically interchange (plug into) the connectors on the main harness in the wrong positions.......and thus will not "work" properly.


Headlight relay:

- has a yellow (yellow) paint mark on the bottom of it.
- plugs into the connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

XJ550 all models, XJ650 all models (except Turbo):
* Blue wire with black tracer stripe
* solid White wire, no tracer stripe
* Red wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire, no tracer stripe

XJ750 Seca models:
* Blue wire with black tracer stripe
* White wire with blue tracer stripe
* Red wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire, no tracer stripe

All other models do not use a headlight relay.



Starter Cut-Off (clutch-in-neutral) relay:

- has no colored paint mark on the bottom of it.
- plugs into the connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

XJ550 all models, XJ650 all models, XJ750 all non-X models, and XJ1100:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* another Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Light blue (sky blue) wire with no tracer stripe

XJ900 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* another Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Light blue (sky blue) wire with no tracer stripe
* another solid Light blue (sky blue) wire with no tracer stripe
* White wire with red tracer stripe



Sidestand relay:

- has a blue paint mark or blue locking tab shroud on the bottom of it.
- plugs into the connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

XJ550 all models, '82-3 XJ650 all models, XJ750 all non-X models, all XJ900, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with white tracer stripe
* Blue wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire, no tracer stripe

NOTE that this same "blue tab" relay is also used on XJ650 Turbo models as an emergency stop relay, and plugs into the connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Red wire with black tracer stripe
* White wire with black tracer stripe



Fuel pump relay:

- has a red paint mark on the bottom of it.
- plugs into the connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

XJ650 Turbo models:
* Blue wire with black tracer stripe
* Red wire with black tracer stripe
* another Red wire with black tracer stripe
* White wire with blue tracer stripe

 

Wow Chacal, this is awesome ... I now have a place to start bypassing my relays. Thanks a bunch!

 

It's not a good idea to "Bypass" Safety Relays.

A lot of thought went into making the Bike SAFE.

You, and others around you, are better-off having those Switches and Relays, ... working!

Bypassed ... is looking for trouble.
When you do something in the category of "Looking for trouble"
you usually find it.
That's one thing about trouble.
It's easy to find if you go looking.

 

Temporarily bypassing or disabling relays, or unplugging safety switches is a valuable troubleshooting tool.

Just don't LEAVE them bypassed or defeated. Rick is right.

 

Ok back from business trip to Florida (Hey wheres all the warm weather that was supposed to be there??)

So I replaced the wholestart control assembly on the handle bar because the old one was a mess. Someone had spliced wires here and there and stuff was all exposed from previous owner. Obviously had never heard of heat shrink tubing,,,

So I replaced this with a working control assembly. A side note on this, my bike at some point had the ground wire (black) removed on the connecting portion of the wirring loom to the bundle coming from the assembly. So from the handle, black wire, undefr the tank where it connects , no black wire to meet it. This was remedied by previous owner I think by soldering a heavy gauge black wire to the ground terminal in assembly and grounding it to a stud on the clamps that hold the forks.

I replicated this by soldering the old black wire to the same place on the new start button assembly. Grounded it to same place

I tried to start her up and the starter went to work making its noise and then it just stopped. waited a few seconds pushed the starter button again and nothing. Waited a nother few seconds tried it again and sure enough it tries turning over again. Then it stops. The other oddity is that the headlight wont come on until I hold the clutch in even while in nuetral. This is wrong, correct? The other thing I noticed is that the solenoid relay (?) the little silver box under the seat on the left hand side makes a clicking noise when I turn the key on and off.

I know things are definitely wonky here. Once again I ask the XJ wizards for their wisdom. What might be the problem here? The relay is bad ?

 

Sounds like a short somehwhere to me.