Starter Clutch Repair help needed.- RESOLVED!!!

Not wanting to jump into splitting the case on my 11,000 mile 750 I'm hoping the problem with the starter clutch is that is has been sitting for 3 years & is gummed up. I ran into the orig owner tonight & he said he never had any problem with the starter.

I know I have good circuitry all the way from the start switch through the solenoid & to the starter. The starter turns over very fast, but the clutch doesn't kick in to turn over the motor. I am attempting the seafoam lub bath to try & loosen the clutch dogs & springs up, but since the bike is a way from running I can't add the seafoam to my oil & run the bike through a number of hot/cold cycles.

I'm hoping to get to the clutch through the generator opening and so far I
Got the nut off the generator this morning by wrapping a 1" tie down strap several times around the gen & threading it through the frame & tied off to foot peg. So in gear with my foot on the brake I torqued down till the strap tightened up & she broke free.

OK, now about pulling it off the shaft.. I have a bunch of diff pullers, mostly 3 leggers, but could not find a good place to hook onto on the back of the contact plate. I have no holes to thread into. Even tried a two leg set up, but when I started to put torque on it it seemed as the the front plate started to warp...

How the heck are you supposed to grab this thing & pull it??

While I was in there I shot it with some PB blaster on the threads for my next attempt.

If anyone has a photo with the puller on I'd appreciate it!

Thanks for all the patience & input thus far.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

If you look closely, you will see the inner bore of the rotor is threaded. You need the rotor puller to thread into that, then torque it down to retract the rotor. Since this is on a tapered shaft, you can simply load up the puller bolt, then hit it smartly straight down onto the top of the head, and it should pop right off and you can pull it out by hand. That buckling plate doesn't sound good though.

I made a puller from a cheapo harmonic balancer puller bolt that I shortened. It had the exact proper thread (M16X1.5)

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

The way to pukll the rotor off is not with a 3 legged gear puller type tool. You will need (frommemory so anyone correct me here) the appropriate sized threaded bolt to fit into the centre of rotor/shaft. I think again from memory it might be a reverse thread.

Applying pressure on the bolt and eventually turning it (the thread is on the inside of the rotor) it will force and push against the shaft to gently lever the roto off the shaft.

Anyone else want to buy in on this process. Like I said doing it all from memory but the rotor puller on the XJ900 is a single bolt and nothing more. I have it my Haynes manual so will check tonight and refer back tomorrow.

It's a courageous operation you're entering into and we'll try to help.

Back tomorrow with the details...

K.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

I guess I'm missing something, isn't the treaded portion the inside if the tapered shaft? If so, how does threading into that pull the rotor off?

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Hi Folks,
I'm following this post closely, because I have the same issue. I just want to ask: Are the special tools, (Rotor holding tool, Rotor puller and Attachment), mentioned in the Yamaha Service Manual, still available or obtainable?
Thanks for your help.
Bill

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Folks, as Mack pointed out, you MUST use an M16-1.50 ( I confirmed this measurement again just last night. Actual bolt diameter on my Pro-Motion tool and extra bolt is 15.80mm) bolt to press this rotor off. DO NOT use a puller, you WILL damage your rotor IRREVOCABLY! This bolt is standard right-hand thread. Pro-Motion sells the tool or you simply buy a hardened bolt. That is it, no magic, no secret handshake.
I have never had to hit the bolt head, all of my efforts had the rotor fall off with ease.
Roverguy, very ingenious using the strap! You get two gold stars!

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Thanks, I hope my black mark for starting to pull the rotor with the wrong tool doesn't come back to bite me...

P.S. I've been sucking everyone for info for the last week or so as a Newbie on Bikes. I'm hoping I can contribute some of my knowledge & tips that work for me.

Wheather it be this forum, or my British Car forum I always learn something new.

That's why these forums are so great!

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Hey Rover Guy,
I scaned these images from the Service Manual. The Roter puller is just a bolt to fit the hole, and the attachment is just a steel dowel small enough to fit into the hole. Together they push the rotor off the shaft.
Bill

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

just use a bolt it'll come right off
mcmaster carr # Part Number: 91180A830 $ 3.80
i have the springs and rollers still in the bags if someone wants them $10

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Bought a 16mm 1-1/2" bolt on way home from work. Will give it a try after diner.

So the treaded part is part of the rotor, not the shaft? I think I got it!

 

SUCCESS!

Now that I got it through my thick head how the rotor is held on I was successful in my endeavor.

Just tourqed down the 16mm bolt, quite tight I might add & it popped off!

Used the 1" strap wrapped around it & tied off to the frame.

For those attempting this it's set up like this:

The drive shaft of the gen is threaded, that's the nut you see in the center of the rotor when you pull the cover off.

The rotor shaft is threaded at the outside, the 16mm & tapered on the inside which slips over the drive shaft.

When you drive the 16mm nut in it contacts the end of the drive shaft & pushes the rotor off.

I thought I was pulling the rotor off, infact you are pushing it off by threading the rod in.

I didn't even use a plug inside the hole in between the 16mm & the drive shaft & it worked well.

Once that is off the three Torx screws are the next task. Of course I got one free & the other two started to strip using a socket drive torx & my hand impact. I was getting really nervous, so pulled out my air impact for the first time & popped those two babies off, although they need to be replaced it's much easier than drilling them.

I pulled the drive shaft out the whole assly dropped down as expected. I couldn't actually see the clutch & the springs & dogs. I just flooded the whole inside of the chamber with seafoam; actually OMC branded stuff that breaks up gunk like the dickens. I'll let that soak & see how that goes.

Oh, & another minor victory, after 2 weeks of soaking the gas cap I finally got it to open. A few squirts of PB Blaster & it works smooth as silk. It was just dry, so the small clips wouldn't retract.

Yea, one step at a time....

To all those helping me through this far thanks alot.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Yeah! Way to go, and neatly too.
Roverguy, would all my help be worth $10? (I'm kidding here).
Polock, I'd be interested in them. I expect to do a clutch before too long.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Robert:

Your help was worth more than $10, if you are ever on the "right coast" look me up I'll buy you a cold one at the local Pub!

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Got home a little early today as I was excused from Jury duty. So After I got the gen removed & really blasted the entire area of the clutch starter with seafoam last night I thought I'd try spinning the starter, if for no other reason that to let it spray some of the foam around.

Not to my surprise the starter spins just as fast as ever, i.e. no clutch engagement. Can anyone tell me for sure that if the starter clutch is not engaging that the motor will spin 3-400 rpm & it sounds as tho it's also turning the idler gear. As a matter of fact I can feel the gen drive shaft vibrate slightly, so I assume it is turning the clutch.

I treaded the bolt into the driveshaft, pulled the plugs, pulled the starter & used a sped wrench to spin the driveshaft forward & reverse as fast I could, again hoping to either spray the foam around, or even loosen up the dogs. I know my hand spinning is not even close to the starter speed, but nothing to loose. Then I used my air gun set on med to tighten the bolt, more to actually shake the drive shaft as it locked up, but again no luck.

Just to be absolutley sure; I had pulled the starter apart & cleaned it out. I notice the idler wheel that the starter contacts to drive the clutch only spins in one direction. There is no poss way I could have the starter spinning in the wron direction I assume?

I spoke to the orig owner the other night & he says he never had any starter issues, that's why I am asking this question.

Remember the bike only has 11,000 miles on it, so I doubt it could be a wear issue.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

The clutch will only turn over the engine in one direction and is designed to prevent return transmission of crank power to the starter. I would put the alternator shaft back into the clutch and see if you can turn the engine with it. And no, you could not be turning the starter over backwards unless you hooked up the battery leads crossed (you do know to ground the case first and then apply the positive power to the terminal stud right?).

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Rob:

I did put the drive shaft back in & with the plugs out & bike in neutral can turn the engine over with a nice pop from the spark plug bores. This also bodes well for the fact that the engine doesn't appear to have been harmed form sitting.

Yea, I know about the +/- on the starter, that dc voltage, unlike ac will reverse the direction of rotation of a motor. I was just doing the "idiot" test to be sure I didn't do something dumb.

Hope for the best on the clutch dogs freeing themselves up.

Maybe an exorcism is needed?

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Rover, If those springs free themselves up, can you really trust them enough to put everything back together, and not replace them? Think of all the grief you've gone through to get this far. Make sure this is the only time you have to do this.
Bill

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

Proto:

I could do this whole exercise in less than 2 hours next time.

I'd rather contribute my time to getting the bike running & on the road before winter to see if it's something I want to put more money & time into over the winter. If the case has to come apart it's gonna take a back shelf to alot of other projects on my to do list.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

It sounds like you have eliminated any other causes for your issues. Open that clutch pack up and start cleaning to see what lives in there.

 

Re: Starter Clutch Repair help needed.

just a thought, if it looks anything like this, replacing the springs and rollers
won't do much good
i don't remember if you see this side through the alternator hole, it's been a while
it started the bike sometimes