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Starter continuously engaged, troubleshoot?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by mrredbaron, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    A week or so ago, i was trying to start my 82 xj 550 with what i now understand is a flat battery. So it was turning over, turning over, turning over, wanted to start (had been running fine weeks prior) then something happened and it wouldnt stop turning over. Took my hand off the starter button and it just kept turning over, eventually burning out the battery. When i hook it up to the car to jump it, starts turning over again as soon as it has power.

    Help.

    My plan now is to just start pulling crap off the starting mechanism and poking at it with a voltmeter and maybe replace the solenoid because i have no idea what else to do.
     
  2. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    that's a good plan, skip right to the replace the solenoid part
     
  3. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Forgot to add, when i pulled the ignition fuse , the problem continued. I dont have a service manual for this bike, and cant find one online
     
  4. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Do what Polock said. The ignition fuse only breaks power to the ignition system (makes the plugs spark), not to the starter (turns the engine over). Replace the starter solenoid. When you kept turning the starter the solenoid got hot and the contacts fused. Starters, and starter solenoids, need time to cool between uses, which is why most owner's manuals caution against using the starter for more than 20 seconds out of every minute.

    It would be a good idea to pull the starter and clean the commutator/ replace the brushes if you haven't done so already. Worn or dirty parts in the starter will cause it to draw more current than required, and can also lead to the starter solenoid overheating (fusing the contacts together).
     
  5. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Alright many thanks. Ill replace the solenoid asap, great forum, been browsing a while now, love my xj, never had a problem till now, awesome forum
     
  6. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Get an "official" replacement from XJ4Ever; they're solid state (no contacts to get fused together.)
     
  7. sektorgaz

    sektorgaz Member

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    Your start button could be stuck closed or there's a short inside the killswitch housing.
     
  8. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Reviving my old thread here...



     
  9. wink1018

    wink1018 Active Member

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    Pull the right hand control switch assembly. Inside, you should see a small screw that holds the contacts and spring of the starter button. Pull out the entire assembly. Clean the contact patches and make sure the spring is still good. Take many pictures to aid in putting it all back together after your clean. You might find that the spring is faulty and not keeping the button pressed against the housing. You could also find that the button is a really damaged behind the housing and getting cocked in the hole of the housing.


    Hope this helps. My button actually broke the "retaining ring" and completely fell out years ago. I had to replace the button with an aftermarket unit.

    Then again, you should also check the wires going to the housing. You could have a wire or set of wires that have been rubbed all the way down to the bare wire causing a short before the switch.
     
  10. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Cant even tell ya how much that helps. Thanks. If it doesnt work, ill be back asking about aftermarket units haha
     
  11. hogfiddles

    hogfiddles XJ-Wizard, Host-Central NY Carb Clinic Moderator Premium Member

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    Sounds more like a stuck starter button on the right hand control to me. Possible that the spring inside broke, too..............

    Dave F
     
  12. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Shoot around the START Button with some Electrical Contact Cleaning Spray or BrakeKleen ::::--> NOT CARB CLEANER <--:::: ... Them follow the Cleaning treatment with a spritz of Good Ole WD40.

    Worth a shot, ... so to speak.
     
  13. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    This is where I'm at... got the assembly disassembled. Spritzed it with brake cleaner, even with the wires disconnected like this it turns over, which leads me to believe its more seriously starter related. If it was the button, removing the ground would negate this whole end of the circuit, would it not?

    I had a picture but I'm outside on my phone messing with it right now. Too complicated. Basically the button is free from ground and housing, and it still turns over.
     
  14. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Forgot to mention, the ignition is off, the key is removed, and as soon as I power the battery it turns.
     
  15. Orange-n-Black

    Orange-n-Black Well-Known Member

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    Here's what you need to look for: low voltage/bad cell in battery causing solenoid contacts to stick(Is the battery fully charged? Is it a good battery/fluid levels high/dead cell?), short in ignition switch, short in wiring to solenoid activation circuit, starter button or ignition.
    Start at the battery and work your way thru the switches to the solenoid.
    It's not the starter.
     
  16. CaptonZap

    CaptonZap Member

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    I don't have a wiring diagram for a 550, but the one for an eleven hundred shows that current for the starter goes from the + terminal of the battery to the big terminal of the solenoid, (either one will work) and the big terminal on the other side of the solenoid goes to the starter.
    The two small wires on the solenoid should be disconnected, and power applied to the + terminal of the battery. If the engine cranks, the solenoid is shorted closed. Disconnect the wire to the starter, and measure voltage on that terminal of the solenoid, with power applied to the battery.
    If you have 12 + volts, the solenoid is bad.
    If you don't have 12 volts, hook up a jumper from the + battery pole to one of the disconnected small leads on the solinoid, and ground the other small lead. The starter should engage, or the solenoid should at least click. If it does, the problem is in the wiring going to the small wires of the solenoid. A short between the small wire on the solenoid and ground somewhere between it and the start switch would cause that. Disconnect both small wires, turn the key off, and check to see of there is continuity between either small wire and ground. There should not be. If there is, there is a shorted wire someplace.
    The solenoids on the 1100's can be taken apart and repaired, but I don't know about the 550. It would seem logical that Mamma Yamma would use the same parts across a class of bikes, but who knows?

    CZ
     
  17. KA1J

    KA1J Member

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    Red,

    Electrical is always a bugger to work out. All the advice you've been given is solid.

    Look at it this way, the starter won't run unless there's power to it. The most likely problem was the solenoid which is the last place to break the power before it gets to the starter and they frequently fail after 30 years.

    So what you have to do now is trace the power back to the first place the power is interrupted: Your start switch is the beginning (in terms of power being turned on to the solenoid) and if the switch is working properly it sends 12V to the small terminal on the solenoid, energizing the solenoid so it acts as a relay passing the power from the battery to the starter. Release the starter switch and the power to the solenoid should stop and this interrupts the power from the battery to the starter.

    You can expect the new solenoid is working and from what I understand you saying, I'm betting if you remove the small wire from the solenoid and you check for power from that wire to ground with a volt meter, it will show 12V power when the key is on and the starter will not engage. Likewise with the small wire disconnected, without that wire connected, the starter should not turn on.

    If the starter does not work and you have power in the small wire then you need to investigate the starter switch in greater detail. The advantage is you now do not have the starter running when you try a new experiment, you just look at the volt meter.

    When you get it so there is only power in the small wire when you press the starter button, you're resolved the problem. reconnect the small wire to the solenoid and you will be back to normal.

    Welcome to the group!
     
  18. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    That Starter is getting juice.

    Undo the HT Lead from the Solenoid to Starter.
    That ought to bring an end to the Starter engaging.

    Then, touch the Lead the Solenoid Post.
    If the Starter spins, ... the Solenoid's closed.
    Has to be.
    Where else are you going to find 15 Amps without blowing a fuse.
     
  19. mrredbaron

    mrredbaron Member

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    Ok just took in the battery to autozone for a charge so i can start playing around with the electrical.

    Ive got a hopeful theory, maybe you guys can shoot some holes in it. I really need to be daily driving my bike during the summer because my other daily driver is a jeep. Obvious reasons. When i get the fully charged battery tomorrow, im hoping by some miracle ill be able to, in the interim between broken and completely fixed, disconnect the small wires from the solenoid after the bike is started, allowing it to continue running and i can ride it. Id get where im going, the kill switch would still work, because its not wired through the starter, and i could just start the bike that way.
     
  20. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    a very talented member that goes by FrankBlack from Sollentuna, Sweden made this
    http://frankjohansson.com/stuff/xj550/X ... agram.html

    there's parts in play that i don't see mentioned here that could be the cause.
    what you should do is take the wire off the starter and hook it up to a 12v light bulb instead. you'll hurt the battery if you keep running it down and it's not doing the starter any good either. you can leave the bulb lit while you wiggle wires
     

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