Starter??

Hello all...
Just went for a 30 min ride and I stopped to check something out.
When I went to start the bike I thought I heard something weird (sluggish to start) but it fired right up. When I got home parked it. Opened the garage got back on and now there a really weird very sluggish start. The battery is getting old but I just charged it about a week ago (which probably didn't need to be done) and tested it and everything was fine. Even filled the battery up with a bit of distilled water. Plus I ride the bike almost everyday. So everything should be fine with the battery. I'll test it again. but does a battery just go out?

Should I start messing around with the starter or alternator???
I have never touched either so one can only assume nothing has ever been to them.


Any suggestion would be great.

Thanks
Jim

 

STARTING SYSTEM PARTS:

BATTERIES:

Brand new OEM and replacement batteries will certainly solve those slow or no-start problems, but before you buy a battery............read on to determine whether you really need a battery, or whether your situation is due to some other cause.

Of course, if you determine that your battery is ready to take that trip to the great lead-acid Heaven in the sky......or, actually, to a recycling center, such as a local auto parts store........then we have a variety of choices for your specific bike.



How do I know if my battery is good?:

Is it your battery, or your charging system, or something in-between?

The best way to know for sure is to use a multimeter (voltmeter) attached directly to your battery positive and negative terminals, and observe the following:

1) with the engine and all electrical accessories off, the battery should read a minimum of 12.8 volts DC. If not, the battery is either not fully charged, or it is bad (it is incapable of holding a full charge). Charge the battery fully and check again; if the reading is less than 12.8 volts, the battery is bad and should be replaced.

NOTE: most manuals describe checking the specific gravity of each battery cell electrolyte (fluid) as the preferred method of checking the condition of the battery. This reading should be between 1.2650 - 1.280 per cell. If a fully charged battery cannot reach these levels in all cells, then that cell is bad and the battery should be replaced.


2) If the first test above passes, leave the multimeter hooked up to the battery terminals, and press the starter button. While the starter is engaged (but before the bike starts), the battery voltage should be 9.5 volts or greater. If not, then this signals either a bad battery, very dirty or weak electrical connections, or it could be a incredibly problematic starter motor (not likely; it's probably the battery!).


3) if you run into this specific problem:

* "There were a few times when I cranked it, that it ALMOST started. It would start to fire immediately as I let off the start button. But it just wouldn't catch.

Then this is a symptom of a weak battery, due to any number of causes.......

What happens is that as the starter is being engaged, it gobbles up battery voltage. As soon as the start button is released, you now have full battery voltage available TO THE IGNITION CIRCUIT (including the pick-ups, the TCI, and especially the coils), and in that instant when you release the starter button, the coils get enough voltage to produce an adequate spark while the motor is still (by inertia) turning over. If everything is in a great state of tune, the bike will normally kick over. If not, you get the "almost fires" situation explained above, so.........

Test the battery voltage WHILE THE STARTER IS ENGAGED (a voltmeter across the + and - terminals of the battery is all that's needed). It should remain above 9.5 volts while the starter motor is engaged but without the engine running. If it drops below that level while the starter is active, then that's the "problem", and the cause of that problem must be determined and remedied (usually a sign of a bad battery, or it could be a incredibly problematic starter motor).


4) Your charging system output VOLTAGE should be checked, again at the battery terminals, while the engine is running. The measured voltage should be:

* 14.2 - 14.8 Volts at about 2,000 rpms for all non-X models, and the same voltage for "X" models, but at about 3,000 rpms. Again, you would measure these voltages at the battery terminals with your voltmeter.

NOTE: If your alternator is outputting more than 14.8 volts to the battery, your regulator-rectifier unit is bad and should be replaced. Over-charging a battery will quickly ruin it, and may cause severe damage or failure of other electrical components, such as the TCI or the computer monitor system (on bikes so equipped).


Here's your cheat sheet on all of the above:


Static Battery Voltage Test

Prior to conducting this test, make sure the battery has not been
recently charged. You must wait at least one hour after charging
your battery to conduct this test.

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).

c) Read voltage and refer to the chart below.

State of Charge:

100% Charged with Sulfate Stop:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.280
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.80 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 5 balls floating


100% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.265
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.60 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 4 balls floating


75% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.210
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.40 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 3 balls floating


50% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.160
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.10 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 2 balls floating


25% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.120
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 11.90 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 1 ball floating


0% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: less than 1.100
Using a Digital Voltmeter: less than 11.80 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 0 balls floating




Starting Load Test:

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative) .

c) Watch the voltmeter as you start your motorcycle, but before the engine is running.

d) If the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, the battery has very low capacity and should be replaced.




Charging System Tests:

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).

c) Start the engine.

d) Bring engine up to approximately 2,500 rpm's.

e) Compare the voltage reading to the specification given below:

For all XJ-series models, the maximum available charging output VOLTAGE should be as follows (all values are approximate):

* approximately 500-2000 rpms: 1.8 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts
* 2000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all models except XJ700-X and XJ750-X)
* 3000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all XJ700-X and XJ750-X)


NOTE: the voltage reading must be approximately 14.0 - 14.5 volts to properly charge an AGM battery......anything less, and you will quickly kill these type batteries!

If your charging voltages are too low, suspect the alternator brushes first, then perform the alternator stator and rotor checks as described in the Alternator Section elsewhere in the catalog.

If your charging voltages are too high, suspect your Regulator - Rectifier unit first, and perhaps dirty or corroded electrical terminals. The procedure for checking these is too detailed to describe here, and you should consult your service manual for additional details.


5) Check the condition of your main circuit terminals.....they should be zestfully clean and un-corroded, or you're primed for a variety of problems......not only will your circuits not be getting full power out of your battery, but to add insult to injury, your charging system may think that the battery needs more juice, and so it starts cranking out amps like there's no tomorrow. It's pretty safe to say that neither of those two occurrences qualify as a Good Thing (tm), so...........start at the beginning, and inspect and clean (and then protect, like with di-electric grease or equivalent) all the [/b] terminal connection points[/b]:

* the positive battery post connection to the positive battery cable.
* the positive battery cable connection to the starter relay (or "solenoid").
* the main harness terminal connector from the starter relay.
* the main lead from the starter relay to the starter motor (both ends).
* the "main fuse" contacts inside the fusebox.
* the battery ground cable contacts at both the engine case and at the negative battery post (poor ground are just as bad as poor positive feeds; after all, it takes two to tango, or to complete a circuit, and electricity doesn't care where the restriction occurs).



Battery and Charging System Results:

Okay, now with all of the above out of the way, you should be able to determine whether you need a new battery, or not. There's no need to waste money on a replacement battery if it's not the root cause of your problems. If your battery is good, but your charging system or electrical system isn't, then spend your time and money on fixing the root causes of the problem........such efforts will also help prevent you from murdering your otherwise good battery.

But assuming that your battery is ready to be retired, the question then becomes, which battery?----as they come in a variety of types and price ranges (and, as with most things in life, the more you spend, typically, the better quality you'll get when it comes to a "commodity" product such as a battery).


Basically, motorcycle batteries are of two basic types, the flooded cell type (sometimes called a "wet cell" or "conventional" battery) and the AGM or "absorbed glass mat" type.

Your original-style, Yuasa-brand battery was a "conventional" type, and these are now available in both their original configuration, or in a high-performance version that can output more amperage than the standard style-----and this is typically a cost-effective upgrade.


AGM batteries feature cell separators made of fiberglass mats that minimize the movement of electrolyte (acid), and prevent spillage if tipped over on their side. The acid formulation in these also typically a bit stronger compared to flooded cell batteries, which accounts for their typically higher output. AGM batteries are of the permanently sealed, "maintenance-free" design, thus never requiring the further addition of water or acid.

The charging system of many modern motorcycles that come factory-equipped with an AGM type battery uses a regulator/rectifier that outputs a slightly higher voltage than a flooded cell battery requires. Using an AGM in almost any motorcycle will usually work well, while using a flooded cell battery in a bike designed for an AGM type will often result in overcharging and quick boiling of the electrolyte solution -- it isn't long before the battery is dry and possibly ruined. Of course, all of our XJ-series bikes came originally with a conventional wet ("flooded") type battery, so replacing them with the AGM types is not a problem or issue.

AGM type batteries are also more tolerant of sitting for long periods with minimum formation of lead sulfate (sulfation) on the plates. They can usually be charged at a slightly higher rate and in general provide better performance over the long haul. However, once AGM batteries are "dead"; they're dead, and cannot usually be brought back to life (even for a short amount of time) like a conventional battery can.

Finally, be aware that while AGM batteries are sometimes incorrectly called "gel cells batteries", a true "gel cell" type of battery is quite a different animal, and is actually not recommended for motorcycle use.



Battery FAQ's:


What is a conventional (or "wet" or "flooded") battery?:

These are the standard automotive type design battery, with individual push-in or screw-in battery cell access caps, a vented design, also referred to as a "lead-acid" design, and need the periodic addition of distilled water to "top up" the fluid level.



What is a "maintenance-free" battery?:

Maintenance-free batteries do not require the addition of water after their initial fill of their water/acid electrolytic solution. It means that it is a "sealed" battery, with no filler caps. Note that while conventional "wet" batteries may be available in a sealed, maintenance-free variety, AGM batteries are always of this sealed, maintenance-fee type.



What is a "high-performance" battery?:

Due to plate design and other factors, high-performance batteries have a denser charge ability and will output more amps for a longer period of time (this is the so-called Cold Cranking Amps or CCA rating number that is used to describe a battery) before full discharge. Although there have been some interesting technological "enhancements" to the basic conventional battery design over the years, almost all "high-performance" (meaning, higher-capacity) batteries rely on more lead material in their plates, resulting in a physically heavier battery. More lead = more money to manufacture and transport the battery, which is why these batteries cost more.



What is an AGM battery?:

AGM is an abbreviation for "absorbed glass mat". In this battery design, almost all of the battery sulphuric acid solution --- which, by the way, is typically at a higher concentration level than of what is used in conventional "wet-cell" batteries --- is absorbed into glass mat separators which are sandwiched between the lead plates. It's a totally sealed and maintenance free design. There are no discharge tubes or fillers caps, which eliminates the need to maintain water levels and offers no concern about acid leaks on valuable parts and accessories.

AGM batteries offer the following advantages over conventional batteries because:

a) their sealed, maintenance-free design means you never have to worry about checking nor maintaining their fluid levels.

b) AGM batteries, unless physically damaged, will not leak or corrode your paint and chrome.

c) they have less internal resistance which offers more cranking amperage than wet batteries.

d) their lower self-discharge rate means they can sit for extended periods of time without constant monitoring. A conventional wet battery discharges 15% a month, whereas AGM batteries discharge only 2-3% a month.

e) a longer service life be expected from an AGM battery-----the main reason conventional wet batteries fail is due to water levels that are not properly monitored and maintained. Conventional batteries are also not very heat nor vibration resistant. AGM batteries are much more heat and vibration resistant than conventional batteries, and of course are maintenance-free, all of which contribute to their longer service life.

f) however, AGM batteries are more sensitive to both undercharge and overcharge conditions than conventional wet-cell, lead-acid batteries. They must be maintained correctly, and use a quality "smart" charger that does not stray too much, or too long, into the "overcharge" range of charging.



What is a gel-cell battery?:

A type of battery that you do not want to use in your XJ-series bike!



What are the electrical specifications for an original battery?:

all XJ550 and XJ650 models:

Capacity: 12ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 1.2A
CCA's: 113


all XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900RK models:

Capacity: 14ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 1.4A
CCA's: approximately 130


XJ1100 models:
Capacity: 20ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 2.0A
CCA's: 260


How should a battery be maintained?:

Good battery maintenance allows you to get the maximum power and life from your battery:

a) always keep the acid level between lower and upper lines on front side of the container (for conventional type batteries that are not sealed).

b) do not let the battery remain in a discharged condition for any length of time. Discover and remedy the cause of such a condition immediately.

c) when a bike is stored for over 30 days at a time, use an automatic battery charger to maintain a proper storage charge.

d) keep the top of the battery case clean, dry, and free of dirt or moisture.

e) clean the battery terminals to prevent corrosion, and treat them to some anti-corrosion spray or coat their exposed areas with di-electric grease. Do not over-tighten the terminal cinch bolts!

f) inspect the battery vent tube regularly, ensuring that it is not bent, twisted or clogged, especially at the bottom of the tube, where it discharges towards the ground......this is the most common place where the tube will get clogged via road debris, etc.

g) protect the battery from strong impacts or shocks.


How long will my new battery live?:

Regardless of battery type or manufacture, you can expect a properly activated, and properly maintained battery (meaning it's neither overcharged nor overly or repeatedly allowed to become fully discharged) to give you 2-4 solid years of life.

Heat is the big enemy of motorcycle batteries----they'll last much longer in a cool climate than a hot one. The self-discharge rate of a battery can run as high as 3% a day in hot weather with a flooded cell battery to about 1% or less per day with an AGM type. Overcharging a battery also overheats a battery---a double whammy! Make sure your charging system is in good order to get the maximum life from your battery.

Constant, repeated complete discharges of a battery will also reduce their lifespan. There's only so many times you can "drain the well" before a battery electrically gives up the ghost.


What are some of the best ways to kill a battery?:

a) Let a discharged battery freeze. Fully discharged batteries freeze at about +25-F, or just below the freezing temperature of water. Fully charged batteries freeze at about 75-F below zero. 'Nuff said........

b) Let a battery overheat.

c) Overcharge the battery........either via the use of an incorrect (or poor quality or defective battery charger), a charging system regulator gone bad, or highly corroded (high resistance) wiring harness connections within the system.

d) "Quick-charge" the battery using an incorrect style battery charger.

e) Allow the fluid level (for wet or conventional batteries) to get too low. This exposes the plates to air, which cause the plates to "sulfate", which leads to increased electrical resistance and a drop in power output.

f) Run a battery down into deep-discharge. Each full discharge event causes sulfate build-up on the lead plates. Do this enough times.....like when your charging system isn't outputting properly........and you'll kill a battery pretty quickly.

g) On conventional batteries, do not use regular tap water to fill or re-fill the battery. Tap water contains minerals and metals that will shorten the life of a battery. Always use distilled or de-mineralized water to fill a battery.


What about my original battery fluid level sensor?:

Some original models with the "computer" dashboard monitor system (1982 XJ750 Maxim, 1981-83 XJ750 Seca, and XJ1100 models) had a low-battery-fluid warning light on the dash, triggered by a fluid-level sensor which replaced one of the battery cell screw-in caps. If the fluid level in that battery cell was too low to trigger the sensor, the circuit in the computer dash warning system would read that as a low-voltage condition and would then illuminate the warning light.

So of course, the first issue in regards to these sensors is: if the light is on, first check your fluid level!

But other issues arise: it could be that the tip of the sensor has become dirty, or encrusted with deposits, in which case even if the fluid level is fine, it will still sense a low-voltage condition. This can be remedied with a gentle cleaning of the sensor tip (steel wool, brass bristle brush, etc.).

Also, the sensor reads voltage, and without enough voltage to trigger the computer system, the light illuminates. The wire path from the sensor goes through your ignition switch and if this switch has electrically "dirty" internal contacts, then that can add enough resistance to cut the voltage signal enough to trigger the dash "low Batt" warning light or display, even though the sensor is fine and the fluid level is okay! So: remove the ignition switch, and its bottom plate, and clean the copper contacts inside the ignition switch.

Finally: a few issues arise with replacement batteries in regards to the use of sensors:

a) some batteries are designed to allow you to re-use your original sensor (we also offer a replacement sensor in case your original is missing or damaged). These conventional-style batteries will feature screw-in caps and your original sensor will screw right in place (by the way, the sensor must be installed in the 4th cell over from the negative post or it will not work correctly and may damage your dash computer!).

b) but some aftermarket batteries, even though they have screw-in caps, have a different "plate depth" internally, and even though the original sensor will screw into the cell port, the sensor tip will be too deep and contact the lead plates in the battery which will cause battery, sensor, and dash computer damage! Thus you must be careful with aftermarket batteries, and measure the depth of the cell, and if it's shorter than that of an original battery, you must use plastic spacer shims (washers) to space an original sensor "upwards" to the proper depth for such batteries, or carefully trim the sensor tip shorter so that it does not ever contact the internal plates.

c) other aftermarket batteries will have push-in rather than screw-in caps. An original sensor will not fit into these batteries unless that one cell port is "threaded" to accept the sensor. This can be best accomplished by gently screwing into the cell port a proper sized and thread steel bolt, and thus "cutting threads" of the proper size into that cell port opening. Now your original screw-in sensor can be properly installed; however, the same warnings as in issue "b" above (in regards to the depth of the cell) must be observed and remedied, if necessary. Of course, make sure that as you cut these new threads into the battery case, that any plastic "shavings" that are created by this threading process do not get into (or are removed) the battery cell.

d) some of the replacement Yuasa batteries that we offer come with a replacement sensor.......in which case, you discard (or save) your original sensor and just hook up your sensor wire lead to this new sensor.

e) some aftermarket batteries.....such as the replacement "maintenance-free" (sealed) and all AGM batteries......have no "cell caps" and thus are not going to accept a sensor, at all. This present a problem, since the lack of voltage to the dash computer makes it think that there is a battery problem, and the red warning light or display message is always on or blinking at you. Although you can "reset" this annoyance away, there are two other solutions available to you in order to disable or bypass this function:

i) on models that use a warning light, you can simply remove the bulb from your dash! No more "warning" of a low battery fluid condition (except on the LCD display screen), but no more annoying blinking light, either.

ii) on all models, you can install our HCP9982 sensor bypass wire that duplicates the function of the original sensor.



What are the best battery myths?:

a) that putting a battery on a cement floor will cause it to discharge. This may have been true a long time ago, when the battery case was made of a rubber material, which would develop hairline cracks and thus allow moisture to permeate into the case, opening up an electrical circuit which would quickly discharge a battery. Modern batteries use molded plastic cases that do not suffer from such a fate.

b) that bringing a battery inside during the winter will prolong its life. Batteries produce electricity via a chemical reaction, and the chemical reaction results in the production of sulfate deposits on the lead plates within the battery, and these sulfate deposits act as electrical insulators----thus reducing the power output and the overall life of the battery. These chemical reactions slow down dramatically with lower temperatures. As long as your battery does not freeze, the lower the temperature, the less the amount of chemical reactions taking place, thus prolonging the life of the battery!

Remember, heat is one of the things that wears out batteries, because they speed up the amount and intensity of these chemical reactions that creates the sulfate deposition on the lead plates.....and those deposits are what really "kills" the battery.

By the way, the main reason why your car or bike cranks over so slowly during winter is not due to "thicker oil" (multi-viscosity oils took care of that issue a long time ago), but because of the decreased chemical reactions (meaning less electrical output generation) within the battery due to those lower temperatures.


Can I jump-start my dead motorcycle battery from a car battery?:

Yes, BUT.................

a) you need to make sure that you are using the proper gauge jumper cables.

b) hook the jumper cables up incorrectly (+ to -) and if you're lucky, you'll just burn up your TCI unit. If you're unlucky, you'll blow up your battery, your bike, or yourself.

c) make sure that your key switch and all electrical power drains are OFF before you hook up the jumper cables.

d) the best sequence of battery connection is to hook up both jumper cables onto the dead battery first, and then connect the positive lead to the good battery, and finally the negative lead to the good battery (or a good ground on the donor battery frame, etc.).



Your quest for more battery knowledge may still remains unsatisfied; if so, a great battery tutorial can be found at:

http://www.batteryfaq.org

and

http://www.dansmc.com/batteries.htm

 

Hook it up to a car battery and report back.

 

Thanks for the info Len.

Adrian1 thanks too.

I was about to hook it up to a car battery but it fired right up. I tested it last night with a multimeter. It read 12.1 off and 12.8 running. I think I need a new battery. I have had batteries die on me before but this time the bike sounded a little different... ???

This battery was over 3 yrs old.

I dunno...

I was looking at this battery...

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/28 ... =SLIsearch

I was by a bike shop today so I stopped in and asked if they sold a gel battery and they didn't no what it was...

Any suggestions??

Thanks
Jim

 

Personally, I buy old-school wet batteries from Sears or Autozone and typically get around 5 "seasons" out of them (winter layover on a battery tender.) But they do require regular maintenance, topping up, etc. Then again at $39 a pop it seems a decent trade-off.

 

12.8v running is a little low, IF the rpm's were 2000+ (that's where the alternator is fully kicked in). It could mean dirty connectors and/or a failing stator, rotor, or just worn rotor brushes.


CHARGING SYSTEM OVERVIEW:

The following guide to understanding your charging system was contributed by Dwayne Verhey, extreme XJ-Wizard.

There are two main types of alternator systems commonly used on motorcycles. Both types depend on a magnetic field, created by magnets in the alternator rotor, to induce an electrical voltage and current flow in a stationary coil of wires-----the alternator stator. If you ever get confused as to which is which, just remember that the rotating component is the "rotating rotor", and the spaghetti-like bundle of wires is the fixed-in-place, "stationary stator"......

The first type is the permanent-magnet rotor system (used on Virago, V-max, and FJR models, among others). In these systems, the fixed-strength magnets in the spinning rotor generate a constant-strength magnetic field, and thus excite the stator coil constantly; thus the alternator puts out 100% current at all times and the voltage regulator merely serves to shunt any excess generated current to ground. The advantage of the permanent-magnet system is a reduced amount of system complexity, but at the cost of increased heat and power losses (since the alternator system is generating power, and thus using up engine horsepower, constantly).

The XJ-series of bikes follows the more common automotive model, which employs variable-strength electro-magnets in the rotor. In these systems, the variable-strength magnets in the spinning rotor, when energized, are used to form the magnetic field which excite the stator. The voltage regulator controls the voltage output by varying the input voltage applied to the rotor's electro-magnets, and thus varies the strength of the magnetic field. If the system voltage drops, the voltage regulator increases the voltage fed into the rotor electro-magnets, thus increasing the strength of the magnetic field that the magnets produce, and therefore increasing the excitation (output) from the stator....and thus the alternator output voltage increases.

In both systems, the stator windings are 3-phase. Each stator wiring bundle (there are 3 of them, and each bundle is called a "leg") kicks out similar voltage, but 120-degrees out of phase with the adjacent leg(s). The resulting AC currents are then rectified (changed) to DC current via a 3-phase bridge rectifier, made up of 6 diodes, such that current in any leg flowing in either direction is directed back into the system as 12-volts DC (actually, around 13.5 to 14.5 volts DC, when everything is working properly).

If you lose a leg, or even a single diode, it is possible to still achieve voltage if the load is minimal, but as current requirements increase, the alternator will not be able to meet the challenge and the battery will have to take up the slack. Of course, as the battery drains, the available voltage is reduced, so the maximum rotor field voltage is reduced, so the current output is reduced, so the battery has to take up more slack, so ....

The end result is the battery discharges and the bike won't start.


If you suspect alternator issues, first check the resistance on the wires to the rotor. Dirty rotor commutator rings, corroded connections, etc.----all of these problems will reduce the available rotor field voltage. Next, check the condition of the connectors from the alternator to the rectifier (the 3 white wires). There's usually 2 connectors -- one from the alternator, often hidden behind the battery box, and the other near the regulator. Corrosion in these spots will reduce the stator's outputted current (bad corrosion will often melt the connector, as the outputted current turns into heat rather than being delivered to the battery). Third, with the engine running, back-probe each of those 3 white wires at a connector to ensure voltage is being generated on each leg. Finally, using a multi-meter and following the directions in the manual, check the function of each of the 6 diodes in the rectifier to make sure the power is being properly rectified from AC to DC.


Too much resistance in the charging circuit will kill batteries rather quickly, as the regulator will "see" a reduced voltage (due to the extra resistance in the connectors, etc.) and will allow the alternator to "overcharge" the battery (14.8+ volts), thus reducing battery life significantly.




How do I know if my battery is good?:

Is it your battery, or your charging system, or something in-between?

The best way to know for sure is to use a multimeter (voltmeter) attached directly to your battery positive and negative terminals, and observe the following:

1) with the engine and all electrical accessories off, the battery should read a minimum of 12.8 volts DC. If not, the battery is either not fully charged, or it is bad (it is incapable of holding a full charge). Charge the battery fully and check again; if the reading is less than 12.8 volts, the battery is bad and should be replaced.

NOTE: most manuals describe checking the specific gravity of each battery cell electrolyte (fluid) as the preferred method of checking the condition of the battery. This reading should be between 1.2650 - 1.280 per cell. If a fully charged battery cannot reach these levels in all cells, then that cell is bad and the battery should be replaced.


2) If the first test above passes, leave the multimeter hooked up to the battery terminals, and press the starter button. While the starter is engaged (but before the bike starts), the battery voltage should be 9.5 volts or greater. If not, then this signals either a bad battery, very dirty or weak electrical connections, or it could be a incredibly problematic starter motor (not likely; it's probably the battery!).



4) Your charging system output VOLTAGE should be checked, again at the battery terminals, while the engine is running. The measured voltage should be:

* 14.2 - 14.8 Volts at about 2,000 rpms for all non-X models, and the same voltage for "X" models, but at about 3,000 rpms. Again, you would measure these voltages at the battery terminals with your voltmeter.

NOTE: If your alternator is outputting more than 14.8 volts to the battery, your regulator-rectifier unit may be bad and should be replaced. Over-charging a battery will quickly ruin it, and may cause severe damage or failure of other electrical components, such as the TCI or the computer monitor system (on bikes so equipped).

 

Everstart from wal mart was like 42 bucks
They always last me 3ish years
When I worked at the motorcycle shop I got discounts on Interstates!
That was nice. Bout the same price.
But they only lasted 3-4! Hmmm

 

your battery is coming to the end of its useful life (unless you have a Bigfitz tending it lovingly)

Buy an AGM battery (Motobatt or similar) (usually cheaper at a battery specialist or online but never at a bike shop!) and relax. Superior cranking power and MUCH more forgiving if you are not diligent over winter... You also have a charging problem, 12.8 V is terrible! - probably alternator brushes. Do a search.
The following guide will pinpoint the problem though:

https://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/ ... iagram.pdf

Good luck

 

Well got a new battery. It took a while but I was cleaning my exhaust and installing new gaskets.

Anyways. The new battery When the bike is off is 12.5
At idle it is 12.6
At 3k it is 14.0

So the new battery should be good.

But here's the problem... It still hesitated when I hit the start button after the bike is warm.

After I installed the new exhaust gaskets and battery I turned on prime for a few seconds hit the start button within a second the bike started and ran fine.

Took it for a ten minute ride came back all was good. Turned it off a tried to start the bike again and it was very very slow to turn over.

The bike sounds like it DOESN'T want to start.

New plugs
New caps from charcal
The resister core are tight (I think that what there called the insulator in the caps)

Kinda stumped. Not sure if I should pull the starter or not.

Any advise would be great.

Thanks Jim.

 

More than likely it is your battery.
Get a good Mottobat AGM battery and you probably won't have any more problems. Get yourself a Battery Tender Junior and plug it in after every ride. I ride all year round so I want my battery kept at a full charge at all times. The Tender will stop charging when it fully charges the battery so you don't have to worry about an over charge but your battery will always be kept at a full charge. Just make a habit of it. I would have problems if I only charged it once a week. Keep it charged!

 

Already have the junior which it was on have the bigger bro too. And two other chargers that start at 1.5amps. The battery is not the problem. Cause after the bike cools down it turns over normal. The problem is when the bike is hot...

I ride the bike everyday so it shouldn't need to be "on storage or tender".

I don't no what's going

 

Almost sounds like the cam timing might be slightly off.........

 

Ya it is probably something else then but I ride my bike all the time also and I still keep it on the tender to keep the battery at full. I recommend this for every biker.

 

The cause is right in front of our eyes:

The charging system should be making 14.5 ~14.7V at 3000rpm and it's not.

Start there (alternator clean up and probably brushes.)

You also might want to pop the starter off and service/lube it.

 

Any write ups for the alternator? Don't have a manual on me since I'm at work. I'd like to check it out before I get home?

Thanks again.

 

Took the alternator cover off and checked the brushes and I think there all good and everything looks pretty clean.

 

The brushes are long enough (wear indicators are the score marks near the bottom). How do the contacts on the alternator look? If they aren't bright and shiny you can dress them with a hard eraser before buttoning it all back up.
Next step, checking for corrosion at every connector between the alternator and the battery, or any worn through insulation; followed by checking the voltage regulator and the actual alternator output voltage (more on that later).

 

Thanks for the reply kmoe.

The contacts look good. Still hit them with a eraser. So there clean. I'll start checking the connectors tomorrow.

 

All the connector look good. I tested the starter solenoid for fun and check out good as well. Went back and test the battery above 2000 rpm and got a reading of 14.5 which is what the manual says it should. But the manual says to connect a 0-15 dc voltmeter... I have very little knowledge when it comes to electrical systems. This is what I use to test batteries.



Is there something else I should be using???

I also left out that sometimes when I push the start button nothing happens. Push the button again and she turns over.

For now I will continue following the manuals tests for the separate charging system components.

Thanks for everyone's time. Hope I didn't confuse you too much. Lol

 

Sounds like there is a poor ground circuit inside that control switch (pushing the start button actually completes a ground circuit for the solenoid, and poor ground = no circuit = no solenoid behavior), or, following the same line of thought, that pushbutton ahs a spring and a contact on the end of it (inside the switch housing) and a little "cage" that it fits into......a poor ground inside the switch, broken spring, bent cag, etc. will typically cause the problems you are experiencing, ESPECIALLY if you can take a screwdriver shaft (etc.) and cross the two larger terminal studs on the solenoid (with the bike in neutral!!!!) and have the starter motor operate.

 

Well I had both studs exposed today and I did touch both of them and the bike turned over. (Made me jump lol)

So I'll go and check that out.

Thanks Len.

 

Well I think I put m/c 10/40 oil in my bike. I changed the oil last night haven't had a chance to go for a test drive. I put m/c 20/50 in. Could this be the problem?

 

Very unlikely to be anything to do with the oil (unless its really, really cold where you are!).

Loads of great advice already given, but I would be very tempted to pull the starter motor and strip it to completely rule it out as already mentioned.

As you have a multimeter, I would also rule out the start button and its wiring as follows (sorry if this comes across to basic).

1. Disconnect the neg on your battery.
2. Set your meter to 'ohms' 200. Touch the meter leads together and note the value given on the meter display. You need to deduct this value from your actual reading.
3. Disconnect the starter solenoid plug. Should be 2 wires, blue/white and red/white.
4. Connect the black meter lead to a good clean earth (the disconnected battery negative lead is good).
5. Connect your red meter lead to the blue/white starter solenoid connecter that goes back into the loom.
6. Push and hold the start button. The meter should ideally display zero (ohms).However, remember to deduct your lead reading taken at stage 2.
7. Repeat the check several times. If you consistantly get a low/zero ohm reading , then this part of the circuit is good.

I am looking at the UK spec wiring, but hopefully US spec is the same

 

I think it's about 80 degrees today. Oil change did nothing at all.

Thanks for the reply fatnfast. I work with a bloke from southeast London everyday. Lol

Anyways got home took it around the block got back tired to start it and same thing. Pulled the starter. I think it looks pretty good. 8O 8O 8O What do you guys think?

 

That looks nice
Maybe it caught its self destructive tendencies of my starter motor ( re: my post a couple of days ago).
The only logical link as I'm in the UK is your guy from Sarrf London
Its his fault then.

 

oh my god

 

That's what I said. And the smell...

 

Well it didn't run out of oil.....not that it's supposed to have any in it.
How do the windings look?

 

I think there still good.

 

It appears that all of the commutator "segments" on the end (where those 4 brushes make their contact) have been shaved completely away?

I'm not too sure that this starter motor has much life left in it..........

 

8O

 

Well at least I was right about the "starter???" lol

 

The contacts should be broken into individual "segments".....see the 5th and 6th images (from the top of the page) at:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=45727.html

 

Yeah, that's...um....damn.

 

I'm glad I saw this thread. I'll be checking my starter and switch tonight. The former out of fear, but the latter because I do get intermittent firing on my starter button. It likes to ignore that I'm pushing the button at all; sometimes right off the bat, sometimes in the middle of cranking. The sound I hear sounds like cranking at first, then it cuts and is followed by something winding down.

 

Fixed.

 

Yep, the commutator is toast. A used replacement starter is not too expensive (be sure to clean it up internally before putting it on the bike). That one isn't worth trying to save. Once the commutator is that far gone (there isn't much mica left between the copper) the whole thing has to be remade. If you can't swing the cost of a replacement right now you can use a thin hacksaw blade to re-cut the commutator gaps, but I'm not sure that will buy you much life from it. The plain bearings look horrible too (undersize like the commutator is).

If it was a less common starter then I'd reccomend finding a good motor shop to have it rebuilt. But it's not, so don't bother.

 

TOASTED... Already ordered one from Len