Starting Issue

I'm a noob... I'll start with that.

For the past month, my bike has not been able to start on its own. I have to push start it every time. This morning my legs and ass are like rubber because it's getting harder and harder to crank her over.

Is there anything else aside from a broken starter that could be causing the problem?

Once it is cranked, the bikes works fine.

 

Could be the starter relay, could be the starter, could be the start button, could be wiring issue. What are the symptoms when you hit the start button?

 

She chuggs like she wants to start but it just won't turn over on it's own. I have a battery recharger that I use frequently and the battery is new so I don't think it's that.

I probably will have the work done at the shop but I don't like going to the mechanic uneducated. For example, if there is a way to test the starter or relay system with a voltage regulator, I'd like to be able to tell the mechanic what the problem might be sort of thing.

edit to print this from another computer
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7795/

 

There is a great post by Gamuru.

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=7828.html

Check it out. I had a similar issue with my bike. It had been starting but suddenly stopped. After running through the steps listed in the post linked above, I found that it was my starter. Luckily I found a replacement starter on ebay for cheap and took my other one to a local place to look at and fix.

But definitly go through the post and see what you can find hope it helps.

 

I had a problem where my starter relay wasn't functioning. Replaced w/ a new one for 30 dollars and worked perfect since

 

If you are saying the starter is spinning but not turning over the engine there are three possibilities:

1) starter clutch is bad
2) starter is not spinning fast enough to engage the clutch
3) starter clutch is slipping due to oil additive or synthetic oil.

#3 is easiest just change your oil. If you used a synthetic it may cause slippage. If you use one with the long life additive it can also cause issues - what oil are you running?

#2 could be brush dust accumulated in the starter. It takes 2 bolts and remove the wire to pull it. Very easy to open the starter and clean everything up. Do it yourself and save a ton of money. Could also be the starter relay or other corrosion. Follow the debug guide given to you earlier to make sure your start circuit is up to par.

#1 is the fix of last resort. To replace the clutch means splitting the case. I assume you are not up to that if you are considering a shop to repair this issue. There is a short cut method without splitting the case but it can be difficult.

Odds are #2 or 3 are your problem.

Edit - let me encourage you to try to resolve it yourself. You will learn a lot by doing so and save a ton of cash over time. These bikes are easy to work on with basic skills (only a few things require any real expertise). All the information and help you need is right here on this site. Take your time, stay organized and you will do fine. Of course you MUST have a service manual to see how stuff should be done and get the specs you need.

 

i'm pretty sure the oil wasn't synthetic. i used valvoline 20w-50 motorcycle oil and to be honest the problem pre-dated my first oil change which was a few weeks ago

i can check out number two suggestion this weekend bill... thanks for the idea

i am also printing out the gamuru post and will try my hand at those ideas as well

thanks for giving me a head start

EDIT
okay this is another stupid noob question but do are voltage meters and continuity testers two different tools or is there an all in one type tool that would be fairly cheap to test some of this crap on my own

 

I'd like to make one other note as I'm sure that it is relevant...

On that how-to link Gamuru put up, there are instructions for replacing the fuse box. I printed out the instructions but when I yank the seat off my bike, there is no fuse box whatsoever. It looks like the fuses have been replaced with more modern ones but there is no box or dust cover or anything... they are just jumbled up and crammed every which way under the seat.

My question: Gamuru has the fuses listed as 10amp x3 and the main fuse being a 20amp.

At www.geocities.com/Moto...dway/7795/ it says the main fuse is a 30 amp

What size is the main fuse?

Also, one of the fuses on my bike is listed as a 7.5 amp... I'm thinking this is a bad thing.

 

Don's bike is a 650 and has a 20 amp main - some others have a 30 - I'd believe the link you have. the rest should all be 10 amp. The 7.5 should be replaced but would not be your problem.

A cheap multimeter will read voltage and continuity. You can find voltage and/or continuity checkers but a multimeter would be best. Hit up radio shack.

oil sounds fine. Does it sound like a mis meshed gear sort of? The clutch is a couple ff pins thrown out by the centrifical (sp?) l force of the starter spinning which then catch and spin the gear to start the motor. You can hear them slipping if they do not engage.

So next step is follow Don's guide. I would pull and clean the starter no matter what. Mine worked fine but was caked with dust.

 

By the way I had a similar fuse situation. I replaced that mess with a cheap block that I later replaced with one from Chacal. His is water resistant and made a neater installation for me.

If your fuses are but spliced in you should check for good connections for sure.

 

Not sure what you mean by this but there do not appear to be any weird sounds like that... just sounds like it is trying to start but won't

I would like to do both changes (replace fuse box and do "Don's checks." However, I know you are supposed to be one change at a time to isolate the problem. I am guessing doing the fuse box first is the first step? As in checking the connections?

 

In this case you could do both.

So let's clarify your noise. Does the engine turn over at all?
Do you hear the starter turn? Do you just hear a clicking noise? I think I misunderstood your basic problem.

If it's turning over normally but not starting - yet starts with a push I would guess you are not getting enough power to spark and turn the starter etc. So here are some easy first checks. You said your battery is good so I'll skip that part - I assume it does not start with your battery freshly charged also.

1) does the headlight go out when you push the starter button? ( I believe it is on when key is turned on correct?)

2) Verify you are getting a spark when cranking the starter.

Could be the headlight relay if #1 is not working, could be your coils getting weak if that is ok. You said it is getting harder to push start, how does it run once started?

Could be a short too. You can pull all but the ignition and main fuse (other 2 are headlight and signals) and give it a go that way. If she fores up replace fuses one at a time to see if you get the issue back.

My last guess is it could still be the starter needing to be cleaned. Harder to turn equals more current drawn.

 

"Verify you are getting a spark when cranking the starter"

I do not know how to perform this check. Like pull a spark plug wire and physically look while cranking the starter or something?

 

charlie: off topic, but i'm diggin' those pipes on your bike. where did you get those? how do they sound?

 

two ways

Pull the wire and look for spark to ground - (engine) crank the starter

Pull the plug - attach the wire and ground the plug to engine (be careful to be a bit away from the hole - don't need a fire.) crank the starter

Use a glove to insulate your hand too. Second way is probably easier to see.

 

appreciate the help bill... gonna work on this saturday and report back

i'm a bit nervous about screwing the bike up more but what the heck, if that happens that's why God made trailers to take the bike to the shop! i'm especially nervous about the fuse box mess because it looks like a bird nest of wires under my seat lol

"#2 could be brush dust accumulated in the starter. It takes 2 bolts and remove the wire to pull it. Very easy to open the starter and clean everything up. Do it yourself and save a ton of money."

one last question: yea this is totally making me out to be a noob but exactly where are these two bolts? i went to the yamaha website and looked at the diagram of the starter but it was hard to tell

as for the pipes on my bike, i believe they were taken off a Harley by the previous owner. i'm not sure how the sound would compare with stock pipes but in my opinion my bike almost sounds like a crotch rocket... doesn't have that loud cruiser sound to me

 

Hopefully this helps. Look at bolt numbered 20. On the left side of your bike Locate the alternator cover which is held by 3 bolts. Below and to the right you should see the back end of your starter. Remove the 2 bolts and the starter cable. Pull the starter. It will be a bit difficult since it has an o ring on the front but give it a good pull and it will come out.

Take the long bolts of fit and both ends come off. Clean brush dust out and clean the commutator (copper slats the brushes ride on) Use throttle cleaner or brake cleaner. Use steel wool lightly on the commutator to clean the copper. Be sure to clean any steel wool dust out. Check your brushes length. 8.5 mm is minimum. If near or < 8.5 replace them.

Use caution in reassembly. The brush plate and both covers have locator tabs for proper alignment.

 

yea that is the diagram i saw but wasn't sure what bolts... thanks once again for your assistance

 

I had that issue and pulled the starter, I had to clean the commutator and put a little grease on the gears and it worked like new. The fuses on mine were also giving me trouble so i got another 4 position fuse box and used the dremel to fit it in and replaced the cover. if you rotate the fuses on mine before sometimes the starter button would work and sometimes not. The starter can be checked with a set of jumper cables off the bike and shoud really spin.

 

Yea this weekend we narrowed the problem down to the starter (I think).

I bought all the stuff to redo the fuse box but didn't get to that. The guys helping me basically said don't mess with it because we couldn't find any shorts or problems with the multimeter.

One of the guys helping me is a good mechanic who said that it sounded like the starter was the issue. He said it sounded like it needed grease and to be cleaned out because there is a slight grinding sound when you hit the start button.

Problem is, when we went to go yank the starter out, we learned that one of the bolts had been broken off by the previous owner and a second one was frozen. The frozen one is located right under the tank and the mechanic friend didn't have time to drill it out.