Stranded on the road. Help please.

Hi guys,

I've been on a road trip the last few weeks. Bike has been purring along.

Anyway, last 3 days it has been sitting while I rest up from riding.

We had a huge thunderstorm come through a few days ago and it pelted for about 5 hours.

Anyway, I go to leave today, and it won't start.

First, I pull the plugs to see what's happening.

They are not the usual nice tan colour, they are wet looking.

I assume flooded, except that I only turned the engine over a few times. So it wasn't me flooding it.

I had a spare set of slightly used plugs. They don't work either.

I go to the auto parts store nearby and buy new plugs.

It still won't start.

I am getting spark on all 4.

The last time it was in heavy rain, the electronics went screwy.

I see fuel in the fuel line.

I did notice, when I first took off plug #1, that it was not tight. I wouldn't say loose, but it wasn't tight. My thought is maybe some of that heavy rain got in there.

I looked in the oil window, and it looks over full (it is just black). That worried me, since the last time I checked 5 days ago, I was at 2/3.

Any ideas from the gurus out there?

Cheers,

David

 

I should probably add. I did a marginally intelligent thing. I am fully packed with about 200lb of gear. I went up this logging road 4 days ago just before parking. It was the end of a long day of riding. It was hot outside. Anyway, I overheated the engine after driving up a steep section. I just simply lost most of my power. This is the air-cooled model. So I stopped right away, set up camp, and let her cool down overnight.
In the morning, it was a little harder than usual to start, but when it did she ran just fine.
Do you think it is possible I cooked and cracked the rings? And that oil fouled the plugs that way?
I haven't noticed white smoke though.

 

It's possible that water or fuel is on your oil. I would drain it and change the oil and filter.

Have you tried to use starting fluid/spray just to see if it will run?

You said you are getting spark and unless you blew a head gasket or bent valves you should still have compression, So the main suspect would be fuel.

 

I just went back with the brand new plugs in to check spark. I have spark on 1 and 3, and little or none on 2 and 4.
I'll head over and get some starter fluid now.
Thanks.

 

It's cranking over fine right? We know you have spark. You say the plugs are wet - did you smell them? Is that gas on them or water? Big and obvious difference. Or is it oil?? If you got spark, then you'd be able to hear the engine firing when you were turning it over. So yeah, the most obvious answer to me is water in your fuel line, or in your cylinder (courtesy of your loose plugs). However you only mention one plug being loose? Seems unlikely that enough water would get into ALL of your plugs to saturate them all. If only one was wet, it should still fire I would think and quickly push out the water as vapor from that cylinder.

If it's now a warm day, I would open up the seat, remove the plugs, and let the sun warm it up and hopefully dissipate some of the moisture.

Alternatively, if you have have a big hill nearby, you can coast down it and try bump start it in 2nd gear a few times. If the problem persists once it's thoroughly dry, I'd drain all the gas and replace it. Water could of gotten into your tank via a poor gasket perhaps?

Good luck.

 

Oh. Well, scratch most of that. We are looking at an electrical issue then...

 

Smell your crank case. If there's gas in there, you'll know you have thinned-out oil, which will definitely lead to overheating. But, if you were riding, the gas will only go to the crank case when you're parked. So......was the petcock left on "PRI"? If it doesn't smell like gas, you're probably ok. ou may want to crack open the oil drain bolt and see if oil or water comes out. My guess is it's oil, and that the window is dark because you're at an odd angle or something.

With all that rain, I'd put my bet on wet coils. MY recomendation is that you get the bike somewhere where it is good and dry. Take the tank off so that plenty of air can get around the coils. If you have the time, get the sun on them for a day or two, or use a hairdryer. If nothing else, grab a can of WD40 and start soaking them down to chase water away.

These coils are known for this issue they tend to develop a long crack between the leads, and if it's rainy, the rain will work it's way in, and then you're stuck............just like you are.

This happened to a friend of mine in the middle of the night out on the NYS Thruway, on his way home from a carb clinic. I drove out to help him the following morning, and a can of wd40 did the trick and he rode the rest of the way home.

Keep us posted,

Dave F

 

Yes, it is cranking fine.

The smell was gassy, I put them in the sun to dry them out, and I don't see any oil residue. How would I know if there was water? (Never seen a plug with water...)

That gas cap is a problem. Not only is the rubber cracking, but I can actually see the gap where the rubber seal does not reach the edge of the tank. So rain definitely got in the tank.

I'll drain the tank via the fuel line and put fresh gas in.

Should I bother removing the tank? Or just let it sit in the sun for a bit to get the last bit evaporated? (it is hot sun today)

I just went back and checked again. I do have spark on all four. I don't have my gapper on me, I wonder if I should trust they are gapped correctly?

Yes, it was just the one plug that was a little loose.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, coils are paired 1&4 and 2&3 on these bikes ? if its 1 coil not working properly it narrows down the search....

sounds like waterlogged coils to me .... look for cracks as hog fiddles suggests.
Suzukis suffer the same dramas....

 

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but where are the coils? Are they the little silver boxes the plug wires come out of?
Luckily today is hot and sunny. Draining the tank right now.

 

on an XJ750RL, looking from the left. Yours would be in a similar spot I'd think ...
the coils are the black things the wires come out of.

 

Don't forget to check the above my friend, one word of warning, IF you do smell gas in your sump - by taking the oil filler cap off, and getting your nose as close as possible to the hole - DON'T run your engine until you have changed the oil and oil filter or you risk doing great damage to your engine.

 

@hogfiddles
There is a slight smell of gas in the crank case.
I changed the oil / filter about a 1000 km / 1 month ago.
re the coils, to my untrained eye, they look fine. No cracking. However the metal plates sticking out of either end are rusty.

So at this point. I have confirmed i DO have spark on all 4 plugs. Does that rule out an issue with the coils?

It is highly likely there was water in the tank, so I drained it and added fresh gas.

I'll turn it over and see what happens.

 

Hi Pete,
I just went and stuck my nose in there the oil filler hole again. I'd say that it does smell like gas. Either way it was a pretty toxic odor.
So it looks like I am changing the oil and filter...
Luckily there is a Napa next door.

 

Although if there is anyway I can get away without doing an oil change, i'll love not to.
From what Dave F said, it sounds like gas could go in the crank case when it is parked, if I have been riding.
Is it possible that the bit of gas smell is normal?
Just want to be sure before I go to all the hassle.

One other note, the petcock was set to ON. Not Prime.

 

When you suspect the Coils; the simplest TEST is to SWAP the PLUG-IN'S.

If you have Sparks on 1 & 4, ... and 2 & 3 are missing, ...

Swap the Plug-in's to the Harness.

This will likely cause the missing to occur on 1 & 4 with 2 & 3 firing.
That will narrow it to the Coil.

 

You might need to drain the carb bowls in addition to the tank if you have water in your gas. The water would go to the bottom of your tank and be sucked into the carbs when you tried to start. Hope you get going soon.

 

Gentlemen, my apologies for looking a gift horse in the mouth so to speak.

I came to my senses and I bought new oil.

Took the oil plug out and it might as well have been brown coloured gas coming out. I mean it poured out as viscous as gasoline. And smelled strongly of gas, and was a very light brown.

So now I'm worried. How did that come to be? And is that indicative of a deeper problem?

The Napa guys could not get my particular filter in for 2 days. So that is a decision too, do I wait for the filter, or will a full oil change be enough.

Any insight much appreciated.

~david

 

Hi Rick, that is just what I did. I made sure I had spark from all 4 wires, and all 4 plugs independently. And I do. So I suspect the coils are ok?

That I did have though, was water in the gas tank (now drained and drying in the sun)

And when I drained the oil, it was basically mostly oil coloured gas coming out. I've never seen that before.

Thanks wilddog, I'll drain the carb bowls too.

 

Just found this thread: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... kcase.html

So I'm going to guess. When I was up said logging road, offriding a bike that is not meant to offroad, I did get stuck twice, and the bike leaned way over twice. And there was one point where I was parked on a steep angle for a few hours.

I'm guessing that any of those three things could have caused oil to overflow into the crankcase.

So literally, I was "flooded". Again, all just guesses.