Stuck Pilot jet/easy out. Cut down tube?

So, I took my #2 carb into the local bike shop to see what could be done. He let me sift through all of his bins but there was no replacement. He recommended I cut down the Pilot jet tube closer to the pilot jet so that I can get some proper pliers on the broken easy out.

Does that make sense? I thought the tube acts as a straw or siphon to pull up gas from the float bowl. How about when the level of gas drops in the bowl? Obviously the carb needs that tube otherwise it wouldn't be cast in.

Is there any merit in his suggestion? I know it's not the optimum thing, nor would I ride it like that, but I'm trying to keep it low buck until I know if it will fire. I would definitely get a replacement carb at that time.

 

Hard to tell in a photo what the actual geometries are in there.

If there is even a chance it might grab something I'd try a left handed drill bit.

 

+1 on the left handed drill dit, they work every time. I'll drill a small pilot hole then use the next size bit and let it grab the broken jet. Spins it out easily.

 

I'd liberally heat the surrounding area with a heat gun to help loosen it up, then left handed bit. They work great.

 

The broken off easy-out is too hard to drill into. + it is already a reverse bit. I made numerous tools to grab it in order to get it out but it is really stuck in there.

 

Sorry, I haven't explained well enough. When I tried to extract the stripped jet, my easy-out broke. Now there is a stuck jet along with a stuck broken easy out. Maybe 2 mm worth of the easy-out is sticking out from the jet but that is about 3 or 4 cm in the tube. I dug around the jet, made some small tools to grab the easy out. It has five points on it. How do grab a 5 pointed shard, 4 cm down a tube with ground down needle nose pliers? Drilling into a broken easy out ain't gonna happen...

 

Don't rush it.
The probability of success increases with the degree of precision employed.
Drill Press job.
You need a bulls-eye.

Rule Number-1: "Don't do anything that makes a bad situation, ... worse!"

When you get all the ducks in a row and get ready to put the first hole in that stuck jet, ...
Put a few drops of Virgin Olive Oil in the Hole and heat it with the Butane Lighter.
The Olive Oil won't smoke or flash like a Dino-Oil will.

Left Handed Drill Set:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G2

EZ-Outs:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1260 ... ockType=G1

Mini Butane Torch:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-4-Mi ... 3cbc4c28af

 

You could try alum, or a similar solution, to eat away the steel of the broken extractor. If you try this, though, first make sure that there is no steel elsewhere in the part, and also test the solution on the body itself to make sure it's safe. Alum will definitely dissolve steel and will not damage brass. I've heard that it's safe on aluminum, but a) haven't tried it myself, and b) not sure what alloy the carb bodies are made from.

A second choice may be to use a thin blade in a Dremel to cut a new slot in the jet (and, yes, cut a bit of a notch across the tube), so you can try again with a screwdriver.

 

SQL: Where can this alum be gotten from?

Ghost

 

alum is at the grocery store by the spice section. If I'm thinking of the same stuff

MN

 

It almost looks like the extractor has split your jet in two pieces by that photo, it looks like it is cracked at the 5:00 position. Your going to have to turn the extractor clockwise to get it out. The center potion of the broken extractor looks like it is cup shaped. Maybe you could take a small screwdriver and sharpen the blade to get a little bite or use a jewelers screwdriver. Sometimes a light tapping with a small punch will loosen an extractor too. I have broken many. Turning to the left, or drilling to the left will only make the extractor do what it was designed to do, dig in deeper for more bite.

 

I saw what appears to be a jagged cup in the easy out and am thinking a drill bit might grab it. I was thinking a LH might spin the jet out and bring the easy out with it.

You are right though - it'd make more sense to use a very sharp RH drill and hope it'll grab the easy out and break it loose.

If the easy out really split the jet the jet should remove easily with the tool removed.

Rick is correct that if the bit walks it could easily damage the carburetor body. Ideally you'll mount it firmly in a drill press.

I also wonder if the easy out could be tackled with an EDM. Once there is a hole there you can go back to the LH bit to get the jet out.

 

Getting the jet out with that extractor in it will be difficult. It looks like it split the jet in two pieces, thereby expanding it (wedging it) into the threads. Get the extractor out and the jet should be easy to remove, but maybe not if it's been wedged into the threads real hard. Heat may help.
I'm thinking the extractor may have a grip on the tube (the skinny part of the jet, where it slides inside of the casting) and casting (wedging the tube against the casting), because it should have never broke if it just engaged only on the brass jet itself. I know this sounds a bit confusing.
The thing that is always risky about using extractors is that if the piece doesn't come loose it gets expanded, because the flutes of the extractor keep wedging in deeper and deeper.
Get the extractor out and the rest my sping out with a left hand drill as MiCarl mentioned.
Looking at it with a magnafying glass my help you see what actually happened too, but it sure looks like the jet has been expanded and split from what I can see.

 

I have had to remove a couple broken extractors and what has worked for me is to heat the extractor. This will cause it to expand and it should loosen up a bit. Then tap it gently at a 90 degree angle from opposite directions to help loosen then pull/twist to remove with pliers.
Thats the low tech solution that has worked many times for me over the years. BUT you have to be gentle doing it.

 

A Modern, well-equipped Machine Shop can remove any metal object in the casting without any muss of fuss.

The process is called E-D-M Machining.
Technically, it's Electrical DISCHARGE Machining. But, people refer to the process as Electric Disintegration Machining.
The Machine is nick-named: TAP BURNER.

In short, a thin wire is used to strike a highly controlled ARC causing the Fragment to "Disintegrate" in a process that is controlled to keep the ARC and the Gap constant as the fragment burns away.

Google Search: Tap Burner

 

That carb is still salvageable!!!

 

I had a similar problem a couple of months ago, although I did not have an extractor break, it just chewed the brass. what I did was slowly and VERY carefully used a small 1/16 drill bit, LOW speed and eat away at the brass then used a presicion screwdiver, ground to a sharp sort of file/saw with a dremel and cut the brass left. I was wondering if maybe you could carefully and easily do something like that to get enough brass out of the way to grab the extactor with some locking needle nose? but man you would have to be on your game and PATIENT. if you run it too fast or let it walk it could get bad fast.
I actually scarred the threads in doing what I did but I dressed them with jb weld and re threaded the bore, hadnt had a problem since.
I do however like the drill press idea amd the heat and olive oil is great. the real problem at the moment is getting the broke extactor out.

 

Yep. The broken extractor is my main problem. The pic looks deceiving. I don't think the jet is split. I used a very sharp pick and with patience, dug around the ez out. It was flush with the top of the jet when it first broke but I have dug about 2 mm all the way around it. I tapped the pick down through the brass on each of the five sides of the extractor.

As for needle nose, I went out and bought a new pair just to bring home and grind down (that tube is maybe 1 cm diameter x 3 cm down to the jet & then it has to open up to grab the extractor). BUT a needle nose has 2 arms. I couldn't get it to grab a five sided bit without it slipping off. So I filed a groove against the teeth on each arm. It will grab now but ripps off the teeth since the needle nose are so thin now.

I was hoping to not take it to a machine shop. If it has to go that far I'll just look for a replacement.

 

But.... You still haven't damaged it in any way so you are still good.
Don't do any more tapping. If it didn't loosen the first time, it probably won't loosen with continued tapping in different locations.
I would freeze it overnight in the freezer to super cool it. Then warm the tube to expand it with a butane torch. you may be able to spin the jet out with a pick or screw driver, but this has to be a quick process. have the torch burning and ready with tools at hand. You are after the window of time where on piece is cool and the other is hot. The quicker you are the better chance for sucess. Use whatever tool grabs and turns clockwise the best (for the extractor).

 

Let me preface with... There is probably some good reason that tube hangs down so far, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Now that's out of the way...

If you're going to replace the carb body anyway some time in the future, then you should be able to cut that tube off. If the float bowl level is set correctly the fuel level should be way above the bottom of that tube at all times. As a matter of fact, the fuel level should be almost at the upper tip (orifice end) of the idle jet.

So, if you're simply looking for a test to see if the bike will run, then you should be OK. Of course, salvaging it without having to go to that extreme is the first choice, but if you have exhausted all cheap avenues and that simply won't happen, then I don't see why cutting that tube won't work at least as a temporary solution.

You might lose siphon at high bank or something? So stay off the track until you have it sorted out.

PS - I hate ez-outs.