Tapered spindle locked tight in fork

This had to get ugly.

I had to replace the oil seal as it was leaking. I've managed to deal with things to almost the end and now I've run into what's likely a truly major problem:

The allen screw holding the tapered spindle at the bottom of the fork is completely frozen. I couldn't turn the allen with the tool so I locked the tool inside the fork under a tire on my car and tried turning the fork with a large wrench and the bolt at the end of the conduit (the tool) snapped in half. I took the fork to the local shop & they tried removing the allen with an impact wrench and it didn't budge, only stretched the socket hole a bit. It's there to stay and I have to make another tool for the other fork I haven't yet done.

I either need to find another fork or figure some way to replace the oil seal without removing the tapered spindle.

This really bites.

I'm thinking of trying to piece out the dust cover and old oil seal and slide the new seal into place if that's possible, I can't see any other way to make this work at this point.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

 

I'm stuck on the visual, can you take some pics of the problem part and post them?

 

You can dig the old seal out, be careful not to damage the inner fork tube or the seal seat, not a job I would relish. (

 

Used forks come cheap. I had to get a set to replace my oil control wave washer (XJ750RL Seca with anti-dive forks). It only cost be $30 delivered on ebay, and the fork tubes were in much better condition. It might be a good idea to get some just incase if you can find them for your model.

 

Have the Cap Screw holding the Damper stuck in the Fork -- Drilled!

You'll only have to Drill the Head of the Cap Screw away before the Damper is set free.
Once the Damper comes loose from the Lower Tube, ... you can deal with the fragment.

A competent Machinist should be able to Drill the Damper-bottom and the Lower Fork Tube to accept a Fastener "The next size over".
(Whether that be Metric or Standard ... who cares?)

It's likely the Fragment will be able to be treated and extracted, once the Fragment is exposed to being able to be worked on.

At this point, ... you can go wrong.
Either you save it.
Save it with alteration.
Or wind-up just needing a Damper.

 

I had to drill the head off of one of mine just like Rick mentioned. Once it was apart the remaining bolt piece came out of the damper easily with fingers only, but enough was sticking out to have used vice grips if necessary.

 

If you mean the fragment of the broken bolt, It's out, it stayed in the conduit. I copied Mark Yerkes' Fork Holding Tool from the XJCD and the 19mm bolt is what broke. I'd held it in place with Epoxy but the bolt broke where the locking bolt went through but it remained in place in the conduit.

So there's no particles in there, all accounted for.

I just made another tool and am going to try again. So close but so far... I have a pretty complete gasket & clip assortment from chacal to put in both forks.

!@#$&*())

 

Just wondering, are 550 forks the same as 650?

 

Maybe I misunderstood, the bolt that broke was a part of the homemade tool and you are making another to try again. But the reason for the problem is the allen head bolt is rounded and unusable.

I had to drill the head off the allen bolt that holds the damper in the lower tube, thereby releasing it and allowing the remaining threaded portion of the bolt that is still in the damper to be unthreaded easily as in my case or dealt with by a machinist as Rick suggested.

It accomplishes the same thing (getting the damper out of the tube) without unscrewing the bolt first. I was just very careful to drill only the bolt head and not bugger up anything else.

Good luck with the next holding tool, maybe a hardened bolt would help?

 

Somebody may have used red loctite on that bolt.

As advised by others, drill the head off the Allen bolt. There is a crush washer under it so if you go slow you can get it without nicking the sealing surface on the fork tube (of course you'll need a new bolt and crush washer).

Once the head is off you can disassemble the forks.

The remainder of the bolt will be threaded into the bottom of the damping rod. You can heat the end of it to release the remains of the bolt.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Here's the update...

The allen socket wasn't rounded to the point of being useless, the impact wrench did enlarge the opening a bit & the shop owner stopped trying when he saw it was going to be a problem.

I did make a new tool and this time used two stainless but smaller bolts 90 degrees off from each other and far enough apart to not weaken the bolt itself. I drilled a hole in the distal end of the tool for a screwdriver to go into and then put a large wrench on the bottom fork. I turned the fork so hard it literally tore the metal on the tool and bent the screwdriver. The torn metal was like peeling an apple...

Finally I decided the cost of a machinist made a Hail Mary worth the effort so I put the allen in a vise, stuck the short end in the bottom of the fork and locked the tool in place and used a pipe wrench at the far end. It started spinning on the tool & powderizing the end so I tightened it to match and finally felt a good solid bite and I twisted the tool just about as hard as I could and just when I thought something had to break, the bolt came free. Unreal how hard that was to release.

But now I'm battling with the oil seal. The dust cover & oil seal spring came free easily but now the oil seal is not budging. There has to be some kind of puller for this, I've dented the heck out of the old oil seal but it just does not want to come out and to pry it the way that might work would leave marks around the top of the lower fork I don't want to make.

What fun!

Actually it is fun, I just wish my first attempt to fix would have been smoother...

 

The degree of enjoyment is directly proportional to the degree of effort!

 

If the fork inner tube is out, you can make a tool like this, put stout washers at the bolt heads.

 

I'm sorry that I got to this thread at the point where you have it mostly apart and are now faced with the seal being stuck. A tip I heard of years ago was to first remove the dust seal and clip/spring while the fork is still in one piece, then place a rag tied around the fork seal. For the next bit you need a work bench that is solidly bolted to the floor or a piece of 2X4 solidly fastened between the studs of your garage or shed just a couple inches shorter than your fork. Now put your fork on the floor an put the 2X4 on top of the fork, one end under the bench or the brace between the studs and the other in you hands.
You can now use the hydraulic force inside the fork by compressing the upper fork into the lower. Can you visualize the way a Pogo stick works? Some times you have to pump it up and down to "POP" the seal out. Also, a heat gun/ (blow dryer on steroids) paint stripping gun can be used to apply heat, flames can be dangerous: set seal on fire, set rag on fire, set shop on fire. Not to mention what too much (flame) heat can do to aluminum!
Just thought I'd post it in case someone else has trouble getting a fork seal out.

 

Thanks for all the really great replies!

I was reading last night and found this thread: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... +seal.html and saw the claw like tool in the photo that was at his Autozone. I went to the local one & they didn't have it & then to Carquest who did but at $11. I bought it and they gave me some thick walled hose to put at the fulcrum and I had to cut the hose into two semi-circle sections so it would lay flat & it pulled it out really fast. The screwdrivers I used did not move it but maybe a mm or two at best.

Now to seat the new seals and re-assemble & onto fork #2...

Forewarned is forearmed...

This one will hopefully go better.

 

Good heavens it's over!

Final Score: Yamaha 0 : Me 2

Here's what's amazing to me... The left fork was everything written above. In honest time spent between physical effort and running back to get replacements for broken tools and getting the puller tool for the oil seal it honestly must have taken six hours of time.

The second fork came apart with no issues whatsoever. I got the allen off in 45 seconds of trying and the oil seal was nowhere as stuck as the left. Total time to replace the oil seal, fill it and have it back in the XJ... 50 minutes tops.

That Left one (I have on good authority) had me talking in my sleep last night...

Now to replace the front brakes and find excellent tires at an excellent price.

Whew!

 

A pneumatic or electric impact wrench does wonders for those stubborn fork bolts.

I have a cheapie Ryobi 18v impact driver and it's my favorite tool for stuck fasteners.