The belly of the beast.

You guessed it. The infamous primary chain guide has broken. Spent Saturday removing the oil sump to affirm; there was a chunk of guide in the sump. Spent yesterday removing the plant. Spent today tearing it down to the crank. Now the fun begins. Hopefully I can get this sorted and buttoned up before the ride season ends.

Gary H.
'82 xj650j, 38k.

 

Make sure to flush the cases thorougly to get all of the plastic bits out.

 

Will do. Thanks.

Gary H.

 

Rotor removal question: How do i get the central retaining bolt out of the rotor and does it remove CCW? Following the haynes manual i made a holding tool, put it in 5th gear to lock the trans. The rotor seems like it still wants to spin. Also, according to the haynes pic of the holding tool on pg. 59 the central retaining bolt comes out CW.

Gary H.

 

The center bolt removes CCW. If the rotor spins that means that once the bolt is removed, the rotor will just slide off the tapered shaft to which it is attached. In other words.....the rotor holding bolt threads into the SHAFT, not into the rotor. The threads in the rotor itself accept the much larger sized bolt used on the rotor PULLING TOOL, which is needed if/when the rotor is till seized ("locked") to the tapered shaft (the internal hole in the rotor is tapered, too).

 

Thanks. I put the case back on the frame, checked the site for a reply, put the trans in 5th and used the brake pedal to lock the trans. Center bolt came right out. I was acting scared. I don't want to fluck this up. The pic in the haynes manual is a bit mis-leading on this one. The holding tool should be turned in the opposite direction. Thanks again.

Gary H.

 

Sometimes you need to turn the Haynes manual upside-down, and then the info is more better correct.....

 

LMAO! Using it in connection with the site it's been decent help. A person using one would need to have some sort of knowledge about how things work.

Gary H.

 

Ignition pick-up removed. Stator removed. Clutch Basket removed. Local auto parts didn't have 16M x 1.5 rotor bolt and I didn't feel like running around the city trying to find one. I ordered one. Over all damage - had to drill and take the head off one crankshaft cover bolt. And got lucky getting one buggered ignition pick-up screw out. I know, i know... i need to buy a impact screw driver.

Gary H.

 

Impact JIS driver. One of the best tools I ever bought.

 

The bolded part is important for a hand set, but the bits that come with the common impact drivers also fit JIS screws (but only by chance).

 

Cool. Thanks guys.

Gary H.

 

I'm familiar with the regular impact driver set, mine does have one or two bits that fit tightly. I picked up a set of JIS screwdrivers that included a JIS impact screwdriver. Looks like a regular screwdriver but has a metal end and is a one way (CCW) impact driver.

 

Which set is that? I need to replace mine.

 

The screwdrivers are Vessel brand. The impact is called the Impacta 980. Works perfect on those side covers, breaker plates, etc. Here is their site:

http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/impact/980-series/flypage.tpl.html

Here is the full set on ebay. Little pricey but I used to wrench for a living (not motorcycles) and appreciate tools that will last. Search around for a good deal, can be found cheaper:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181471340857?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

Hijack about screwdrivers aside, good luck with the rebuild Gary. My 650 is my first Yam so I can't offer much advice. I hear ya on getting it done before riding season, I missed about 6 weeks last July when I decided to tackle some repairs on my KZ that I thought would be a few days work.

 

The case is split. Any thoughts?


Gary H.

 

I have metric impact driver

 

Now you tell me. I broke lose the case bolts with a bit of good umph. All except one. The one was kicking my ass a little bit. Just when I was about to add a breaker it broke lose. Always one! Actually, i was hoping this wouldn't happen any time soon. I'd cringe every time a member would post about this. She was running so good. I'm done for the evening.

Gary H.

 

Yes.
Take better pictures

Remove the gears from the case and bag them, noting where any shims go.

Remove the alternator shaft from the starter clutch.

Inspect.

 

If the starter clutch body is not craked, just replace the springs & rollers.

 

Sorry about the bad pic. The coffee cup stains are on the house. I'm listening, however, I'm in there to replace the broken chain guide and whatever else may have been damaged. I appreciate the help.



Gary H.

 

Hey! That looks like my primary guide.

 

Lol. Well, I'm there. Not a good pic but if any one wants to know what it might look like. Note the chain started knawing on the oil spray nozzle. I'm thinking a bit of degreaser to wash all the bits from the case. Suggestions?


I appreciate the help.

Gary H.

 

The primary chain stretches, it eats away at the guide, and then at the oil spray nozzle.......

Might want to replace the primary chain, too.

 

Cool. Thanks.

Gary H.

 

I like using carb cleaner to flush out engine cases. It's relatively inexpensive, non-damaging, and leaves no residue.

 

Cool. Thanks. I snapped the head off the most recessed bolt holding the chain guide. No threads above the surface. Gave it a penetrating fluid bath. Gotta get a extractor. I plan to heat the outer case and try to extract the stud. The other two came out without hassle. Seems like those bolts used loctite.My parts list keeps getting longer.

Gary H.

 

Be extremely careful using an extractor. Fact is, find a local machine shop that does electrical bolt disintegration and have the bolt removed that way. They will leave a clean threaded hole like the snapped bolt was never there. I had this happen on several bolts on my XJ700 rebuild, I think it cost me $60/bolt. Seems like a lot until you realize how much your blood pressure will spike after breaking a bolt extractor.
Fun fact, there is a broken bolt extractor inside my motorcycle right now! And yes I will leave it there in perpetuity because it is in a bolt which is related to a chassis accessory and won't cause any undue harm.

 

Cool. Thanks. @ the fun fact...wow!

Gary H.

 

A man must know his limits for a given period in order to learn and get better. I tried to drill the stud in order to use a extractor bit. No dice. Even if i could drill the stud deep enough i'd need a extension in order to keep the extractor straight on the given angle. I don't have one. No need to ruin a good case. Taking it to a machine shop as soon as the weather breaks. And I'll be using carb cleaner to flush the case. Thanks for all the help. It's appreciated.

Gary H.

 

Lss... i ordered and installed a 3D insert. Welded a nut to a tap chuck + socket + extension to reach the hole. New chain guide installed last week...finally. Thanks again Chacal.

Gary H.

 

Afternoon All. Got a mill life line question. I haven't disassembled the oil pump yet; just wanted to see if it is pumping oil. As it sits when i rotate the sprocket cw (direction of crank and input shaft) it doesn't pump oil but when i rotate the sprocket ccw it pumps oil. Shouldn't it pump oil in the cw direction?

TIA,

Gary H.

 

The pump spins CCW when the engine is running, and should pump oil in both directions. Yours appears to be missing the pickup shroud and screen.

 

I know it spins ccw when running. I was also thinking it should pump oil in both directions; it's not. Thought i was having a brain fart. The pump is not completely located (the bolts are loose). The shroud is off so i can test for oil flow. I'm testing for oil flow with the pump off the bike by pouring oil in the pick up port and rotating the sprocket in both directions. Thanks for the help.

Gary H.

 

Disassembled the pump looking for possible obstruction; there wasn't one. I reassembled the pump minus the valve/spring to see if it would pump oil in both directions to the valve; it doesn't. The case is inverted. When i rotate the shaft cw there are air bubbles in the oil and no through feed; ccw the feed is fine. What am i missing?

Gary H.

 

gerotor pump
http://www.hydraulicstatic.com/20091225_hydraulic-fixed-displacement-pumps.html
doesn't look to me like they pump backwards

 

The one in my spares cabinet moves oil in both directions.

If it's moving oil when spinning CCW, and builds pressure with your thumb over the outlet, then I'd call it a serviceable pump.

 

ccw standing at the right side of the bike since the input shaft spins opposite the crankshaft right?

Gary H.

 

Yes.

 

Many thanks to both you and polock.

Gary H.

 

See page 100 in the Haynes Manual. How thick should the flat washer that goes at the very end of the centraliser arm (shifter shaft) be? The washer I have appears to be too thin to keep the teeth on the selector mechanism and the teeth on the shifter shaft in alignment. It allows the assembly to go in until one end of the shaft spring hits the rubber oil stopper. The selector mechanism is in as far as it will go.

Gary H.

Nevermind. I just re-checked the selector mechanism. It wasn't all the way in.

 

Last post of the evening. She's back. Took her for a short run last night to get the oil flowing. Another short run this morning before the rain started. She rides and sounds good. Still gonna put the guages on her and colortune. I'll put the air box covers back on when I do the running synch. Not a good pic but here she is last night all buttoned up. Thanks everyone for all the help. Varoom-varoom!

 

Awesome! Always good to see one back on the road after a major issue. Seems a lot of "parts bikes" come to be when someone takes them apart and gets overwhelmed/too expensive.

 

.... And then the northeast parts hoarder comes along and scrapes them up

 

Better that than the junkyard or lying outside rotting.

 

True. Some people prefer to make it bling first. Some, like myself, prefer to make it run right first. Others can afford to do both. I can't afford the later.

Gary H.

 

Here's my plan:
Get the damned thing running, then get it running well, then get it safe, and finally, make it pretty! "Running well" and "safe" are pretty much interchangeable, as I won't ride it unsafe! Besides, the antiques shows I watch with the wife call that "patina". Apparently that makes rust more valuable!

 

Member Alert: Wrenching when you should be asleep will cause brain farts.

Been riding her to let things marry up and to check for oil leaks. Found two. Lss...I knew I'd need to re-torque the cap nuts so the slight leak at the head to block was a given but the leak at the tensioner had me baffled (it never leaked before). I removed what was necessary to re-torque the bolts. Back together and after a short run it still leaked. Back apart, tensioner removed...two gaskets! The old gasket was still on the tensioner with a piece missing that was torn away upon dis-assembly (the cause for the leak).
Back together...no leaks. All is good. Varoom, varoom!

Gary H.