Valve Clearance adjustment- bucket retention tool problems

I have a 1982 XJ650 Maxim (XJ650) I bought from a coworker a couple months ago. It's a good bike, it runs (or ran I have it all apart right now). It just mostly needed a lot of deferred maintenance.

I started to do the valve clearance adjustments, and I bought the bucket retention tool (from Len, awesome guy) to get the shims out on the valves that are out of spec (2 exhaust, and all 4 intake valves). I've read the posts that have the nice pictures showing how to use the tool, make sure it's aligned and square.

It (the tool) works perfectly on the exhaust side, but no matter where I seem to position the retention tool on the intake side, it just doesn't seem to catch the bucket. Though it also seems to be more difficult to 'square' the tool on that side.

I'm a little afraid of the 'zip tie/wire' method, as I don't want to break anything or drop junk into the cylinders.

Since it is all 4 valves on the intake side, I'm wondering if it would be easier to just remove the intake cam shaft and pop the shims off. I'm assuming for that I need to remove the automatic chain tensioner to get enough slack in the chain to move the cam shaft (after removing all the mounting bracket things of course).

Any suggestions/advice?

 

I too have the same bike and I had no problem doing the either side...... just curious thought, are you sure you are turning the cam lobs enough to fully depress the buckets, you know, bucket not depressing far enough in order for the tool to catch.... I, personally, would do the zip tie method before I go and yank the cam, not that there is much to pulling the cam but you are inviting more chances of saying "ah, damn, why did I do that"....

 

Motion Pro is not known for their consistancy when making tools. The hole spacing seems to vary from one tool to the next. If I recall correctly some members have had good results from modifying the bucket holding tool by making some of the holes oval in order to allow the tool to center up on the buckets. I just use the wire/zip-ty method which is easier all the way around. Concerns about drapping something in th cylinder can be alieviated by inspecting the wire/zip-ty after each valve has been done.

Removing just one cam is not an easy, or quick task, and I think you will find that it is much more hassle than it is worth.

 

I would not remove the cam lobes either.

I use 'the tool' and it came with slotted holes to allow for side to side adjustment.
I sometimes have issues with proper alignment also.
Here's some thoughts.

1. Make sure you don't rotate the cam into the tool - that would be beaucoup bad.
2. Make sure bucket is bottomed out (as mentioned)
3. Look where you are putting the tool . . . I know this sounds dumb but my bike sits in the garage with the left side next to the wall - last time I used the tool I was on the right side of the bike and had to bend over the bike . . . this creates a parallax issue (that's a big word for "You ain't looking straight at it dummy!"). So yea - get your nose down in there and see if you are indeed centered. Better yet, put the bike on the driveway, on its center stand and walk around it (my wife is correct {as usual} sometimes I really am lazy).
4. Try again.

Or just go for it and do the zip-tie method (I'm a sissy and am too afraid to try it).

 

You could grind down the the inside of the tool (the side that goes against the cam). To give better ability to catch the edge of the shim bucket.

I have tried the removing the cams on my XS1100 (same type of setup) and ended up bending valves because I didn't know what I was doing.

 

i'd be scared to death to use that tool, one brain fart and your up the creek

 

I spent hours fighting with motion pro tool this week on my Seca 750. Worked decent on the exhaust side but poorly on the inlet side, even after enlarging holes. Finally gave in and used some nylon string from weed eater and it worked great each and every time. I wont be using the tool again.

 

Seems the consensus is:
1. don't remove the cams, that's dumb. I thought it might be, figured I just needed confirmation.
2. bucket tool is great when it works, and sucks when it doesn't...one can modify tool to possibly improve its functionality.
3. just do the 'zip-tie' method...

I don't think I have the proper tools to modify the tool, so I think I'll struggle through a couple more attempts and being extra sure it's centered, and then just give up and use the zip tie method..

I'll let you know how it goes.

 

Well I'm certain the tool was centered, just didn't reach deep enough to grab the lip of the bucket.

So I hoped for no mishaps and used the zip tie method.. with a zip tie



Took a couple tries to get the dimensions right for the loop, and how far to jam it in there so the valve stayed open far enough that the shim would clear the edge of the valve case, and the cam. I used a few zip ties a new one for each valve, as I didn't want to risk the zip tie breaking due to mechanical fatigue being crushed by each valve.

Got all 4 intake measurements. Thanks everyone for the advise and encouragement. Of course now I get to order the shims I need and do it all over again in a few days when they arrive....

 

don't worry about the valve cutting the ziptie, it can't.
next time you get some zipties, get black ones. the white ones will break after about a year in the UV from the sun, black ones don't.

 

Hogfiddles is still running shim pool, you should reach out to him once you fiqure out which shims you need

 

Zip Tie all the way
I did it, no issues and nothing broke

 

I have two of the tools.... I dont use either of them. I use zipties. I tape two together-- one is clipped a bit short, and the other tip is bent a bit to act a a "feeler". They slip right in.

Fun part- I show people " the tool" at carb clinics, and also the ziptie method. In the time it takes to get the tool installed correctly on one bucket, I can complete two shim checks with the zipties. Ziptie learning curve is about two minutes, and EVERYONE grabs the zipties....... NEVER have had anyone ask to use "the tool" instead-----

Dave Fox

 

I've only done it once but I used the tool and found it to work every time - maybe I got a good one . I might try the zip-tie method but I like the feel and certainty of the tool which for me was rock solid.

Only thing that I wasn't told and figured out myself was there's small gap in the cam bucket to allow you to pry the shim out - when you rotate the engine some of the cams can spin a little. Before you move the cam down rotate it so the gap is accessible and keep an eye on how it spins when you move it down, then reposition it if need be so you can access it after it spins and the tool catches it.

 

+1 I've used it multiple times and I've never had them break. I was like, "Dad I made this new tool for doing the valves!" he looked at it and started laughing. My word of advise though for the zip tie method, get longer black ones and never use the same zip tie more than once.

 

Funny... I've used the same two zipties for about three yes now...

I like the zipties especially because I DO feel the solid certainty, AND I can rotate the buckets freely as needed

 

+1 Ribo... I bought used the tool and had success every time, no issues at all, I will say it was not from motion pro...

 

I've yet to do my clearances as I'm waiting for the gasket for afterwards. But I am leaning more towards the ziptie/wire method.
Does anyone who has been very successful feel confident to make a video at all?
Seeing helps.
Thanks all.
-EM

 

Tool from Len ; no issues.

Gary H.

 

There's already plenty of tutorials for zipties

 

Why not ask BigFitz?
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threa...-the-tool-vs-ziptie-w-pics.29209/#post-249951