Whatever happened to good, small starter bikes?

So why is it we don't get any good small bikes anymore? Honda seems to have thought about it by offering the 125 CBR, but what else is there these days for little city scoots that are great beginner bikes? Seems the smallest we get now are 250's - Kawi has a 250 Ninja that's close, Suzuki the Marauder 250, Yamaha the Vstar 250, and Honda with a CMX250

Saw some great 125's over at the Pashnit forums, so I borrowed some images just to show what the folks in Europe have available.

Honda 125 Shadow


Hyosung Aquila 125


Jinlun 125


Kawasaki 125 Eliminator


Regal Raptor 125


Suzuki 125 Intruder


Yamaha 125 DragStar

 

The Eliminator, at least, is available in the US; they used one in my rider course. No one could test on it though, because (at least in IL) you can't get the full M-class endorsement unless you test on a bike with at least 200 cc.

Maybe, if other states have similar rules, that partially explains why we don't get many bikes here smaller than 200?

<Edit>On second thought (and after double-checking), the limit is 150 cc. Still, the point is the same.

 

California requires a minimum of 125cc for freeway legal. This didn't stop the popularity of the YZR. Heck, I've run across a few Aprilla and Yamahas under 100ccs out here on the PCH.

 

Thought it was 149... checking DMV website... okay. From the 2008 Motorcycle handbook:

-----------

A motorcycle:
• Has a seat for the rider and is designed to travel on two or not more than three wheels.
• Can also be electrically powered with a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour and weigh less than 2,500 pounds.

A motor-driven cycle is:
• A motorcycle with a 149 cc or less engine size.
NOTE: You may not operate a motor-driven cycle on a freeway if signs are posted to prohibit motor-driven cycle operation.

----------

So: the minimum engine size for the freeway would indeed appear to be 150cc.

 

Because the new riders have been convinced by the non-riding marketing types that a 600 is a starter bike.

Heck, I've seen the Yamaha R6 advertised as a starter bike on craigslist.

No wonder motorcycle accident rates have gone up.

 

+1 on the 600 cc "starter bike" it seems that a bike isn't considered "big" unless it's got a motor to rival a honda civic. I remember when a "liter bike" was something your jaw dropped at.

 

On the other hand, I saw a 250cc Suzuki cruiser style bike today and it dosent seem like it's made for a normal sized adult. The guy on it looked like a circus clown.

 

I've got a nice 400 maxim/streettracker for sale...thats a good starter

 

Sorry I don't have a pic but Honda still make the nighthawk in a 250cc and it is quite comfortable for me at 6'4 225lbs. I don't own one but I tested one out before I bought my $500 xj750j.

 

IMHO, a "starter bike" is more than just engine size.
It is also a deciding factor regarding total weight, handleing, maintnence, ect.
A liter bike CAN be domesticated, just depends whose twisting the throttle.

Remember "Guns dont kill people, people kill people"
Same goes with bikes. Anyone can be stupid on a motorcycle between 149cc to 1800cc.
Anyone can be smart too, just takes more work

BTW the 750 was my starter, and a 600 now days will flip and whip you good if your not careful.

 

if you can't start on a 250 you shouldn't ride

 

I have a feeling that the Asian's aren't going to ignore a golden opportunity to sell us some new "Around-town-type" light or middleweight that will qualify as a "Starter Bike."

Right now, I don't see it in the showrooms, on the street or even being mentioned by the Cycle Press in any of the Bike Mags.

Back in the '60's. When Honda met the demand of anyone wanting to get on two wheels, there were some new models introduced every year.
But, the Market was different and there was hordes of people wanting the freedom to get outside and go.

Young people, today, are content to just sit in a big chair with the headset on and fingers going like mad on the Game Controller and don't think about wanting to get too far away from the action on the screen.

It's going to take a stroke of genius to build the bike those kid's want.
It'll happen soon enough.

I have a feeling that when it comes around, there are going to look very familiar to all of us.
Small, quick, uncomplicated and having a slew of add-on gadgets to make being outside fun again.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head. It really is more about the overall bike and the rider's attitude.

Before the R6 (123 hp and 357 pounds dry) I rode a V Star 1100 Custom (60 hp and 570 pounds dry). I know a lot of people that have successfully started out on the V Star 1100.

I wouldn't recommend the R6 as a starter for anyone. Heck, I'm glad it wasn't available when I was 25 years old because I probably would have killed myself. There were a few times back then that I shouldn't have even been riding the XJ650 I had. :twisted:

BTW, I started out on a 185cc two stroke and followed that with a 90cc four stroke. Those were great starter bikes and loads of fun.

 

Schmuck, my reference is dated. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

I'm new to the forum but as for choosing a bike with wieght, handling, maintenance, etc being a deciding factor is not the motives of most MC sales folks. Sexy sales, not sense. It seems that what they push.

I went into a dealer about a year ago and was shown the largest bike they had. Granted I'm 6'1" and 240 lbs but I was even asked how long I had been riding or really what kinda bike I was looking for. And when I told the girl that I wanted something smaller she insisted that I needed a big bike to the point that if I didn't get one of the larger ones I was weak.

Hey the joke was on her b/c I wasn't int he market for a bike. I was looking for accessories.

This sentment is expressed most bike ads.

 

the problem with starting out with such a small bike, is you get used to being able to throw it around. I used to have a 79 125 2 stroke enduro, and a 79 400 special II, both of those you could twist the trottle and spin out or ride a wheelie and it always felt like you were in controll, I made the mistake when I first had my 82 750 maxim that I could turn around like I used to with my 400 special on a wet road.
It got the best of me and I broke a blinker, mirror, break handle and windshield.....

 

Exactly. My xj550 was my 'starter bike' (unless you consider the 75cc Suzuki I had when I was a kid, haha) and it was perfect. But that exact same bike, even with 6" lowered on it didn't work for my partner. She couldn't reach the ground, had to lean forward and reach for the bars even with the longer pull-back bars that were on my Maxim on there. NOT how you want to learn to ride. She's got a new bike now that fits her that I look like a circus-bear on a tricycle when I ride, that would be a horrible 'starter bike' for me, but perfect for her. It's definitely more than just engine size.

One of my old co-workers got an 1100 Shadow as his first bike. Everything fit him perfectly, and it was a perfectly fine bike for him (and still is). But then again, he's a responsible adult, which is the problem most people buying huge bikes as their first bike don't have going for them. He didn't buy it because it was bigger than the next guys and he was afraid of looking like a wimp, he bought it because it fit him well and would be reliable and comfortable on long interstate trips.

 

Look what happened to Personal Water Craft- - try to find a 550 or 650 today !! Everything gets super sized.
What we have for starter bikes are scooters. I just happen to weigh 300 LB. and I don't think I could keep up with 55 MPH + traffic on a 125 CC bike. It wouldn't be safe.

 

My starter bike is a 750 maxim... when i was hemming and hawing if it was too big or not my sister (who rides a ninja 500) said "It's a cruiser, not a sport bike". granted it's 25 years old, but it will still go fast enough to kill me if i let it, though it doesn't look like it will do things like this... http://break.com/index/first-motorcycle ... oorly.html


I do wish the manufacturers had more models inbetween the 250 and 600 range but that doesn't seem to happen anymore.

 

Actually there are a lot of good bikes in that size range (the Ninja 500, the SV 650, V Star 650, and Shadow VLX come to mind), but they are always hidden in the back of the showroom or at the warehouse. The first thing you see when you walk into the dealer is the hottest sportbike and biggest cruiser - the profit makers.

I just read that Kawasaki's best selling bike is the Ninja 250R.

 

I agree with someone above that if you can't ride a 250cc starter road bike, you should probably not be riding. The 250cc cruiser bikes (Virago, Rebel, GP(z?) 250's) are very low seat height, lightweight and low on power. What more could one ask for? In fact, there are a couple in the 600cc range that may better suit SOME beginners. Let's face it, it will be a rare person that doesn't quickly tire of a 250.

Then there's the other end of the spectrum. My brother-in-law had never ridden. Well, ok, he says that one time when he was a kid he rode his cousin's enduro around the yard once. That doesn't even count. The dealer sold him a Vulcan "88". It's a 1500cc, four speed torque monster. He was signed up for his MSF course, but was out riding with some of his law enforcement co-workers when he went down. He told me that he just couldn't make the corner. I went to the scene and, well, frankly there really wasn't what I would call a corner. Hardly a gentle sweeping curve on a wide, paved two-lane road. It had to be rider inexperience combined with that big bike.

He spent some time in the hospital and off work and will never ride again. The upside of the story (I'm not ALL doom and gloom) is that he gave me the mangled remains of the bike. I hadn't had a bike since the mid-80's (my Yamaha 400 special). It was a mess. I have before and after pics. I brought it back to life, rode it for a year or so and sold it to buy my Harley. Now I only have the XJ to ride, but I can credit my brother-in-law with getting me back on bikes after so long. Once I get my son through college I'll have another bike....probably a Yamaha cruiser or another Harley. In the meantime I've already put almost as many miles on my Maxim as I did all last season on my HD. That's why I sold it. Too much money sitting there collecting dust. But....I'm getting off topic.

There are acceptable beginner bikes out there, imho.

 

When I was in HS, a good friend's dad bought a new bike. First bike ever. Figured he'd just 'teach himself' how to ride. He was about 5'2" and 120lbs... so naturally the dealer sold him on a 1600cc bike (can't remember what it was, just that it was the same displacement as my VW, haha). He made it three days before he dropped it in the gravel in their driveway.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. A whole lot of people buy BIG bikes when they've never ridden before and get themselves into trouble almost immediately. From what I understand, in a lot of the EU Nations, you HAVE TO start small and work your way up, without an "advanced" driver's license you can't BUY a liter-bike. Hence the greater availablity of small bikes over there...NOT GONNA HAPPEN HERE in the home of the almighty dollar...

 

just to put my .02 in, I started on a 1993 Katana 600. It was enough power to give you respect for the bike, but not quite enough to get away from you with little mistakes...Fast forward to now, I ride another 600cc bike, but it is much more powerful and burly than the old katana. Bike have come a long way. My wife bought a 2008 Ninja 250r for her first bike, and 3000 miles into it she still hasn't had a need for a bigger displacement bike. Her's is a great beginner's bike, anything bigger, i.e. my ZZR600, would be way too much.

 

I have a 85 Maxim X its got more than enough power but it just feels small and is probably i mean im 6'3 300lbs. I would like to find something bigger just my take.

 

I think the 250-400-600 cc range is the most practical, yet WIDELY unaccepted by the mainstream.

Fast forward to a decade from now. Gas @ $15/gallon. Bet bunches of ~250cc fly off the shelf.

There is alot of pride, devotion, and overkill in machines. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
I think with increasing fuel prices the options @ dealerships may increase.

If a "salesman" tries to tell ME what I need...he can go F himself
Only the weak let others tell them whats cool, or in style.
But only I can tell whats FUN

 

Found one of these on Craigslist for $900. Not what I want, but it had to come from somewhere. Canadian? Vento only has a v-twin 250 in the states.



Make Model: Vento Rebellian 150
Engine: 150cc Air cooled, four stoke, single cylinder, OHC,
Bore x Stroke: 62 x 49.5 mm
Max Power: 13.4 hp @ 9000 rpm
Transmission / Drive: 5 Speed / chain

 

Earlier today at one of the weekly gatherings of "Guys who buy expensive bikes and gather to talk about them" I saw this behemoth. I swear it had a car tire for a rear wheel.

The guy who bought it was bragging about it and come to find out it was a f*)$#g 8 cylinder bike... I think he called it a BOSS HOSS? HOG?

It was his second bike he said, first being a Suzuki.

All if this I caught while straining to hear what he was saying as he kept revving the Leviathan up......He kinda wobbled as he took off. Was wondering how long he'd last on it.

 

That "VENTO" looks like one of those Chinese bikes to me. I wouldn't buy it for NINE dollars.

The Boss Hoss bikes have been around for a while. Most come with Chevy 350's in them. I've seen them with up to 500 ci V8's. Whatever you're into. I looked at one up close and they are pretty bizarre to me. The tank is HUUUUGE!

I like pretty much all bikes, including Harleys and other big v-twins, but I have never cared for the wide rear tires. Just my taste, it's cool for those that like them.

There is some kind of behemoth for sale near me. It's a big dresser/cruiser looking thing. The emblem painted on the side of the tank looks like some kind of a "V" or "X", not sure. May be one of those Excelsiors or something. I should stop and look, but I don't want the guy to think he's got an interested buyer.

 

My 750 is also my starter bike. I'm 6'1" and around 250. (Yeah, I know, trim it down, tubby!) Anyway, it's really comfortable. When I was shopping around, all my friends (who mostly ride cruisers) were really pushing forward mounted controls and big engines ( > 1000cc). Even at my height, I find the mid-mount controls with the forward highway bars very comfortable. The mid-mount controls allow me to get aggressive in the twisties and the forward highway pegs let me relax on the long straights.

To my friends, a 750 is a small bike, but at 90 HP out of the factory, it's not one to be laughed at. Like Ass.Fault said, anyone can be stupid on a bike from 149cc's to 1800cc's. Stupid hurts! And on a bike, it can kill.

 

To add a couple more smaller available bikes to Jim's above...
Buell Blast and Suzuki GS500 both 500CC

Small bikes make great in-town commuters....

 

Well it looks like we have a long discussion and an old one by the last date. I'm new to this forum. All of what I have read is sensible. it is safe to say that the definition of a starter bike is dependent on several factors. My first " starter bike" back in the day was a new XT500. I was 18 and 6' 3" and did not have to take a driving test to qualify for an endorsement. To day my 23 year old daughter used an older Honda 400 as her starter bike. that lasted on riding season she now rides a 78 XS1100 with no trouble. So when we say starter bike it should be defined as any size machine that passes several requirements. Weight as well as cost as well as intention after you learn to ride. Do you intend to ride double for a medium length week end trip.
No matter how big the displacement the bottom line is confidence. I currently ride a v-star but I have an 84 XJ 750 I made a comment to a friend that If the XJ had more fork travel different gearing and knobbys It would be fun it the woods it feels that light compared to the cruiser. So we are blessed to live in a world wiht so many choices. Bob

 

My first bike was a Kawasaki KZ650.
Fit me well but eventually wanted something faster.
I think the most important factor is being comfortable on the bike.
If it's too fast put a throttle stop on it!

My .02

 

There is a Hondamatic 400 for sale down the block. I think my gal should learn on something like that, although I know nothing about the tranny. Twist and go?

 

I know a friend of mine in New Zealand said their motorcycle system mandates steps to get to bigger bikes. He started on a 250, after some time got up to a 400, and has recently got a 650. He does ride a lot.

I do wish there were more smaller starter bikes available - they would probably cost less than scooters!

 

no offense but putting someone whos never rode before on an rgv250 or aprilia rs250 is nothing short of stupid, a 4 stroke 250 single perhaps but its a lot easier to learn the basics on a 125 four stroke ala cg125 as they are just so forgiving. You can kill yourself coming off a bike at 30 in bad circumstances.

Edit - I used to have a part time job working for a riding school getting people ready for for the UK CBT - a test to make sure you competent to ride around on the road on learner plates before doing your full test, here in the UK we have seriously strict laws regarding gaining your test including capacity and power restrictions. Personally I cant imagine anything more horrifying than putting someone whos never rode before on some of the bikes being suggested on here, but my judgment is based on the very crowded UK road system.
In the mid 90's biking gained popularity massively and there was a jump in accident statistics where people were passing there tests (in the pre BHP/capacity restriction days) and jumping straight onto top of the range sportsbikes and smearing themselves across the countryside. As well as that there were the born again's as they became known - people who had passed there test in there teens, stopped riding after a few years and come up for retirement and bought a bike again - again putting someone who hasent swung there leg over a bike in over 20 years onto a sportsbike put everyones insurance premiums up for years

 

http://www.pagsta.com.au/

these are really cool, have honda engines, get about 100 miles to a tank, and can do 45mph....

the main importer is now in canada.... there are plenty of u.s dealers..
price for a tricked out 100cc is about $1000

 

Why do people buy chinese bikes? There is no quality control and built by slaves! The local craigslist here is full of warnings about these cheap bikes.
Sure they're cheap but they don't last and you can't get service.

 

Different strokes for different folks. You couldn't put me on a 125 or 250cc bike and expect me to have any fun with it. Too small and too light for highway riding around here in Jersey (Turnpike loonies drive 25 over the the 65MPH limit, I kid you not). I took a 2006 250cc Ninja out for a spin and I couldn't believe how underpowered it was. Granted, I'm 6 foot and nearly 200 pounds so it's going to take a little "omfph" to get me going and a "starter" bike isn't going to do that.

Now, for riders like my girlfriend who is around 5' 4", 125 pounds, then I'll agree that a starter bike NEEDS to be in the 125-250cc range. Maybe it's because I'm just trying to protect her, but I won't let her ride anything bigger than the 250cc Rebel she currently has.

 

When I got back into riding, I looked at the Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki 250cc bikes and ended up going with the Suzuki S40 (650cc single cylinder). It all depends on where a person is going to do most of their riding and how the bike fits them on what to get for a starter bike. The S40 is quick and nimble and very easy to control, plus it only weighs 350lbs. I bought my 750 Maxim because I wanted something a little bigger and more comfortable for longer trips but the 40 has no problems running down the interstate at 75mph. I am disabled and can't handle a very big bike, the 750 is plenty of bike for me and will keep up with everyone that I ride with.

 

don't forget about the 250 virago.