Why the inline 4 and why not the inline 4?

The reason the manufacturers went to a inline 4 from an inline twin was for more power and smother running. The reason most manufacturers went to the v 4 was because it was much narrower and for the most part smoother. V 4s turn rpms look at the hondas v65s 10k redline v max has the same redline as the xjs do. The main reasons they went for a v twin was the old mighty dollar. People wanted harleys but couldn't afford them. The manufacturers saw that cha ching lets compete. Some they even ofset the the crank so it would sound like a harley and shake. And the low end grunt appealed to people the useable power was right where you cruise at. I have a 700 virago the same chassis design as my maxim x. Lets say a roll on in top gear 2k or so there isnt an xj out there that would stay with me. The 1100 would run me down first with a bunch of speed in hand 750s and smaller would watch me pull away for quite a while till they got wound up and the virago turns just over 4k at 60. most people do not want to have to downshift when they ride. Everyone with an xj doesn't mind we like the top end rush. That's why the 1100 was so popular it made so much more torque at lower rpms. The thinner motor when you compare my virago to my maxim x makes it feel like a mini bike. The four feels like a gyroscope with the long crankshaft spinning. But would much rather ride my xj then the virago anyday it feels more like a motorcycle should.

kpcart go ahead ride an xs850 don't think you will like it. Bike does make more low end torque they are rough huge motorcycles very tall center of gravity thats why they never caught on when yamaha came out with the fours they were quickly forgotten. When i was working for the dealership in the mid 80s i was sent to get a customers bike 45 miles away. Drove me seca 750 to go get it and drove it back. I was glad to get my bike back.
And as far as 4 cyl cruisers They had them as far back as 76 with the kawasaki ltd then came the suzuki l hondas were always taller with the k series

 

i only meant id like to try the engine characteristics of a xs850 triple. i have also just heard from someone else that the actual bike is big and rough and not as nice to ride as an xj. id like to test ride a triple one day of approx 750cc or bigger on a bike around the size of an xj, i just think it would be nicer to ride in normal commuting, and might actually sound better at lower rpms. but i may be wrong on all that!

what do people think of the xs1100s? are they similar to xj bikes in anyway? (its the same 4 cyl engine right?) id imagine they are more comfortable and have more low end torque, but heavier, and possibly no gain in low end tractability to say an xj750 because of the extra weight?

 

The XS1100 has more torque the XJ750 through all ranges of the RPM's. It's a fun bike to ride. I only get about 29 to 30 MPG on the XS but I'm still dialing everything in. The XS11 is more top heavy and is harder to "flick" around and while in a hard turn hitting the throttle too soon can break the rear tire loose and send you sliding across the road.

The XJ750 handles much better the XS11. It's lighter and more responsive in the twisties. Still has plenty of power. It will be blown away by the XS11 in the straightaway but will hold its own on the twisties. I'm also getting 50 MPG with the XJ.

Riding two up or long distance, between the two I would take the XS11. Any other time I would take either bike.

 

Major difference between the 750s and the 1100. The xs 1100 has so much more low end. The XS is just the older model 1100 maxim. They are quite heavy but drive really nice. The XS is a lot taller then the 1100 maxim. And much wider then the 700s are lots of crankshaft hanging out of both sides If i remember correctly it turns 3500- 4k at 60 mph but Don't quote me on that. They are getting harder and harder to find as they get older as most bikes are. Honestly since you are trying to not have to heavy of a bike and want low end power you might be better off with a v twin. The inline 4s are going to have to have a large displacement to give you low end punch but you will be looking at much more weight. Like i was saying earlier i have a maxim x and a 700 virago they both are built off the same chassis design the virago seems much smaller then the maxim does

 

no they don't. that has nothing to do with it. Its all about torque and traction. Not revs like a 4-banger. Also there are plenty of high displacement inline 4's available still, both air and liquid cooled. As far as someone saying 4's make more power, that is inaccurate as well. Big Twins make gobs of horsepower and are planted in both sport and cruiser style bikes, i.e. ducati and KTM, Guzzi, etc.

 

I think that is a very overgeneralized statement. It seems as though 98 percent of drag bikes use inlines 4s. I see a lot of KZ1000 motors in those bikes. I have never seen one of these crotch rockets that did not have an inline 4 or less. Inline's are still the way to go in my opinion, I don't care for a bike that is loud but has no power like the Vs.

As far as cars, inlines 4s are very desirable to the right crowd. With the low compression, I have seen some crazy turbo set ups that get over 400 hp. In a car that light, what can an old muscle car do with its big block with the same hp? It is easier to put HP into a big block sure, but getting HP out of an inline 4 is efficient HP. (I love muscle cars and hate ricers with a passion but I just know what can be done with these motors on cars)

 

What I think would make a nice mid range cruiser is a bobbed venture keep the air ride system and loose all the luggage and plastics would take a lot of imagination and ingenuity but I think it would be well worth it. Mono shock, water cooled fat front tire oh and its a Yamaha

 

My cousin has a V-Star 1100 classic and I have the XJ1100.
V-Star 1100 HP 53.5 @ 5,900 rpms
Torque 57.9 @ 2,500 rpms
XJ1100 HP 95
Torque 65 ft/lbs @ 6,500
my bike is just starting to eat when his is nearing redline. I will take the inline 4 any day.
Having rode both bikes my xj is easier to corner and is every bit as comfortable as his crusier.

 

apples to oranges...the ducati Diavel or any 1100cc Duc for that matter would eat your XJ for breakfast

 

sorry i didnt mean to knock them. i know you can have great 4 cyls, and obviously i own one too with the xj 750. but you must agree, even though great things can be done with inline 4 cyls, they dont have much character appeal to other engine configurations.

 

but how much torque does the xj have at 2,500 rpms, where the v-star is making quite a bit. probably half. to me that is important (and obviously to millions of other bikers too) as that kind of rev range is normal bike riding, not racing. who actually rides there bike at 6,000rpm on public roads? its uncomfortable and annoys everyone else on the road. those numbers to me show that the v-star would be much nicer to ride in normal commuting and much nicer to cruise on, and its only deficency compared to the xj is that it wont beat it in a race. (im only talking about engine drivability, not cornering or sitting comfort). id imagine the v-star sounds much better too.

 

I do, for one. I regularly run my box-stock Seca 550s to 7K or even 8K in traffic, and nobody gets "annoyed." Neither bike is uncomfortable with 6K on the clock; but it is something that takes a little getting used to if you're used to slower-revving twins. But then I'm also running the stock exhausts...

The XJ is a "racebike for the street" and one of the pioneers for that matter. Comparing them to V-twins is simply apples and oranges; it depends on your riding style and what you like.

 

But you can also say the V motors are much the same way. Less character than that of an inline 4 due to it is all bark and no bike so to speak. I guess it depends what you are wanting in a bike. Me personally, the closest thing I would ever consider for a V motor is a Virago or one of those random old V Kwakas.

 

The 4 cyl engine, eiher inline or v (like honda magna) is he perfect balance in 4 stroke combustion, a twinn 4 stroke only makes power on two strokes (except some bmw's where both cyls fire at the same time and he old 454ltd Kawi's). You see between power strokes, a twinn has one cyl on compresion which slows he crankshaft while the other is coasting with the exhaust valve open (making no power). An evenfire 4 cyl engine always has one cyl making powerwhile one is making compression and the other two are coasing with open valves, thus a 4 cyl engine is ALWAYS making power. If the compression is fairly even, and everything is dialed in pretty good it can't help but make it run smoother (all the time) and produce more power in the upper rpm's. HD and honda has odd fire v-twinns which have a boat load of torque down where our 4cyls are just above fast idle, but they hyperventilate when the 4's are just starting to make peak torque. Then we can run away from them.
Honestly, I wish yamaha would make an affordable 90* v-4, (maybe 2 cyls horizonal and two vertical} that would run like an r6 or r1 for the same reason that HD made the sportster, which was a slightly longer wheelbase & a narrow chassis. Of corse the HD was designed in he 50's (thus any immiation sportster is retro)
By the way, Suzuki makes an excelent 650 v-twinn (Bandit/Gladius), I wish they'd put it in the S-40 rather than that lame thumper motor.

 

Having the XJ650J & the XJ1100J I can say there's a whale of a difference in the two bikes.

The 650 is nimble, feels light as a feather when going into turns compared to the 1100. I keep looking for a 6th gear on the 650, not that there's a lack of power but I'm still not accustomed to higher RPMing bikes. The 1100 is a completely different engine and to the rear wheels, the RPM to MPH is not the same as the 650, the 1100 most definitely runs at a lower RPM at a given speed and more to what I am expecting.

my 650 is in excellent mechanical condition but the 1100 was horribly out of tune with abused carb settings, saturated air filter and needing cam tensioning adjustments. I have yet to check the shims but I expect to find them needing some replacements. With the lousy tuning of the 1100 I can tell you it was still one of the finest highway rides I've been on in a long time; power up the wazoo and acceleration whenever I wanted it and plenty of it. The cornering is less agile than the 650 but when going up a hill, the 1100 has no hills compared to the 650 and it's pretty amazing. I'm looking forward to having it in as good running condition as the 650 by spring. The 650 can get 55 mpg tops and the 1100 in it's untuned condition only got 35 but I know that value will be improved when I get it running properly.

I'll keep my 650J because of the gas mileage and the ease of physical dimension & weight but the 1100 absolutely will become my choice on most moderate trips and probably on all long trips.

Someone mentioned the Ducati; they are quite the bike and I'd love one, same with a Moto Guzi but to my thinking, I could buy quite a few XJs for the price of one of those Ducatis. Considering the way I drive, the Ducati would serve me no better than the XJ.

Now my friend Victor... He would use the Ducati as it was meant to be run...

 

I have had a few inline twins and inline 4s and I will take an inline 4 over an
inline twin, V twin, any twin, any day. Its like night and day. On my 4 I just
ride away and leave them. Beautiful smooth power its like riding on a turbine.

 

anything after iron head v twins makes me snooze looking at them...

im kinda surprised some people who rode gutless 90's and 200s and smaller as a kid would complain about any size inline 4....

 

DW- How many ducati v-twins do you see on the road here in the Dallas Tx area I have only seen 1 or 2. But I have seen thousands of V-Twins from all the other makes. On any given saturday or sunday around here you see groups af 15 to 20 bikes riding together all riding v-twins and no one really looks at the bikes as they are so common. But when I take my XJ1100 out after doing work on it everyone looks at it. Yes my cousins V-Star does have more torque thru 1st and 2nd gears but when I hit 3rd and get up around 3,500 to 4,00 rpms he is suckin hind tit.

 

KA1J- To answer your original question. With similar displacement, design, and cam timing, an inline 4 cyl vs. a 360 deg parallel twin like the xs (which is a lot like a single cylinder engine, really) will provide more total power and a LOT less vibration, at the expense of a little torque. The reason torque is lost is because the same displacement divided by only two cylinders, each cylinder has twice as much force acting on the crankshaft. That force is called torque because it's acting rotationally. The I4 has more power because the same displacement is spread over twice as many cylinders with the same piston diameter (by the definition of a similar design, above). The pistons in I4 can travel faster due to both the lower mass and less vibration (mostly less vibration). More bangs per second, with slightly less torque due to mechanical losses (half times two is the same, right) means more overall power FOR THE SAME BASIC ENGINE DESIGN AND DISPLACEMENT. Period.

To all: With different displacement, design, and cam timing all bets are off. That is why Ducati L-twins have so much POWER (desmodronic valve control). That is why Harleys have so much torque but no power (ridiculusly huge engines that can't rev high without vibrating apart, but FEELS right when driving around town), and that's why a Triumph 675 and a Triumph Street Triple have totally different engine specs (almost exact engine, but different valve timings).

And whoever said an inline 4 is least desirable in both cars and bikes (and I really don't mean to flame) is nuts. Inline 4s have great primary harmonic balance, and are second only to inline 6's in their secondary balance. They have a good power to weight ratio, too. Sure, they're not as good as I6's or F6's, but they're a lot smaller, too. And far superior to any twin out there, i.e. V, Inline, or Flat (not Ducati or Harley, or whatever).

If anyone has any doubts, Wikipedia has a LOT of really good information about engines HERE

 

Rick, I am disappointed in you! :lol: Automatic? :roll:
When I arrived in Israel two years ago I called it "a country of pussies" - all I could see were scooters, from the tiny 50cc, two-stroke, to yamaha sofa-beds @ 500cc, four-stroke. And the ultimate shame? automatic! p**** rides!!
I explain: I came from Sao Paulo. 15 million people moving around mostly in four wheels (cars, trucks, buses). To survive in a bike you need to ride as if you are playing a chess match (anticipating the "enemy"'s moves) and shifting gear as needed. Manly shifting gear, I mean! :twisted:
Ok, ok, I know you are talking about cruisers, it's another equation. But I could not resist to put on you a little.. and mostly to berate scooters. They are not very manly, really! :wink:
My I4 XJ400 is about to come alive. Israel's highways are smooth as a carpet. I will let you guys know my "first impressions".

Aharon