XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector? [SOLVED]

First things first... does the rear wheel have to be moving in order to shift progressively??? I would not think so because on my XJ650 Maxim I can shift into any gear I want at a stopsign with the clutch.

My problem is properly advancing in gears as I go down the road. It will only change gears at the perfect timing right now (aka clutchless shifting). So is my problem with the CLUTCH ADJUSTMENT or with the GEAR SELECTOR on the shifter drum?? I swear I've tried every possible clutch adjusting position and it still refuses to shift properly. I have taken the clutch cover off with the bike on sidestand and have found nothing out of ordinary on the gear selector, just by peaking at it.

When coming to a stop I am able to force the gears to drop down to #1 (a lot of the assistance comes from perfect timing aka clutchless shifting) but then struggle to put it back into neutral. More often than not, I just kill the bike, turn the key back to On position and then kick it back into neutral with no hesitation. Therefore, I can get the gears to change without the bike running. Guess that answers my first question...But that's what confuses me about this whole situation.

Oh, one last bit of information: My drive chain has proper 'free-play' so that is not binding up the gear shifter. Discovered this might have been part of the problem so I made sure my 'free-play' in the drive chain was at proper specs.

Any help fellas? Thanks in advance. I've never had this type of issue with my first bike... *knocks-on-wood*

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Put the bike on the center stand with the bike running and in neutral. Pull the clutch in and drop it in to gear but continue to hold the clutch. If the rear wheel starts spinning aggressively and suddenly your clutch is worn. If the wheel spins up slowly then your problem is elsewhere. I am changing mine next week.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

the wheel slowly starts to spin at a steady pace, no sudden movements or aggressively

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

It's the clutch. I'll give you a better response when I get some time; I didn't ignore your email.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Aaron, do you have any room to adjust the clutch cable? Sounds like it is a bit TIGHT. You need to loosen it some. I imagine that Fitz will be giving you the info for that...........

Dave

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Yes now I agree its gotta be the clutch since the problem of shifting through the gears does not exist when engine is operating. When its operating the transmission has enough "grab" to the friction plates causing a bind, which results in a "stiff" shifting process... that would be my hypothesis anyways. Don't quote me on that...

So I admit, the solution (hopefully) would be a clutch adjustment in which case I've read Rick's guide as well as Fitz's tutorial, in addition to the Clymer manual. I'm just surprised I still wasn't able to find the 'sweet' spot over the past two evenings which has left me disappointed. Can these clutches be that much of a little gremlin? <LOL>

...so there ya have it. I've owned the 650 maxim for 4 years and never had clutch issues. Consider myself lucky I suppose

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

guys it feels like I'm not getting anywhere.

IIRC, problem occurred after I changed motor oil. The oil that was left by previous owner.... AND YES, I replaced the old oil with correct motorcycle wet clutch CASTROL 20w50 OIL, as well as a new filter.

I've adjusted the clutch so many times and gotten to a certain spot where it just feels right. So I put the bike on centerstand and fire it up. Shifts fine when rear wheel is raised off ground. I can go thru all the gears normally, up & down. Once I get on the bike and slowly drive around driveway, the issue comes back. I cannot sit anywhere with front brake applied and hold the clutch in to change gears. It becomes STUCK and almost impossible to get back into neutral.

So I wind up killing the bike, then with a little budge it pops back into neutral. I've had two highly recognized folks help me out & we all agree its the clutch but I'm outta ideas... Dad also agrees I have the clutch adjusted at a nice position with just a hair of freeplay.

FWIW, the drive chain free-play is also in correct specs.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

So dad looked this over with me... and is wondering the same thing I am.

WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING: I put the bike on centerstand and pull the clutch in. I pop it down into first gear, and remain holding the clutch thinking we have it fully disengaged.

SHOULD THE REAR WHEEL SPIN AT ALL, AT THIS POINT?? My father & I (being the noobs we are) believe that no matter what gear its in, as long as the clutch is disengaged (meaning we pull the clutch lever in) the rear wheel should not spin, correct?

Well in our situation the rear wheel spins and spins while holding the clutch in. And it spins pretty fast, so fast that I could not stop the wheel from spinning with my foot.

BTW, we also thought maybe the clutch lever itself was not adjusted properly. So we took channel lock pliers and forced the "rod" & connection lever all the way clockwise to fully disengage the clutch. Same scenario with the rear wheel.

Needless to say we are confused, and I've been working on this every night for the past 3 nights. Its not like I'm rushing to get this procedure carried thru TONIGHT; I'm just updating as we continue to work and try different things. Any suggestions fellas?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

You should be able to stop the rear wheel with simple toe pressure if the clutch is pulled in; what you're describing is indeed a dragging clutch.

If it's adjusted correctly, then I suspect somebody ahead of you has reassembled the clutch "guts" incorrectly.

Read carefully: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29541.html

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I'll look into the clutch "guts" Fitz, but is there any explanation as to why my clutch started grabbing after I changed the oil?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Anything is possible; it's 30 years old. Have a peek.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

The video in my sig might help if you've never taken the clutch apart. Complete with tips along the way from all the bigshots on this forum.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

went through all plain plates and friction plates. nothing out of the ordinary. scrubbed them clean with scotchbrite pads and smeared them in oil. Re-installed everyback according to your "guts" assembly Fitz. Adjusted clutch cable "raw" at the bottom and then fastened the "fine" tuning kurl at the perch lever.

Nothing changed = my gears are still very stiff to change through when sitting on the bike and engine running. When the engine is not running I can change gears perfectly fine since the transmission is not binding up. And yes I'm smart enough to realize that if my engine is binding against the clutch assembly, my clutch cable is not doing its job. However I've tried all variations of adjusting and to no avail I can't change the symptoms. So just posting again to bump my thread and see what else people can suggest.

I should note that I can change through gears as I blip down the road. Its stiff but easier to bump into another gear when the rear wheel is moving. If its not moving I can't seem to change gears whatsoever, even with clutch supposably dissengaged.

Sorry for being a noob & sorry for making this thread seem like a personal blog; but I haven't gotten much assistance from other than one or two fellas. I have been dealing with this since Sunday evening and every night I come home (from work) and feel like I don't get anything accomplished. Gets to be depressing because the bike itself SOARS. Believe me this little 550 has kick to it, but I know this minor issue needs to be smoothened out.

Any other advice? I'm stuck...

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Have you taken a look at the springs on the shift shaft yet? Part#'s 5 & 6 in the schematic. Part# 5 is the most common problem.

If the bike has been hammered through the gears at some time it is possible that the springs may have been tweaked. This will allow the shift cam/forks to run slightly out of position causing a stiff shifting situation.

While you are in there take the chance to replace the shift shaft seal if you haven't done so already.

Another thing to look at is the clutch push lever shaft. If the push lever has ever been removed. It is possible that the shaft turned a bit so that it will not have enough travel to disengauge the clutch when the lever is pulled.

Try rotating the push lever a tooth or two on the shaft spline.

Ghost

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Guess I don't understand the "mechanics". Only have one question:

When the clutch is disengaged and you knock it into first gear, remain holding the clutch lever in. What causes the rear wheel to begin spinning (when on centerstand) if the clutch is in-fact still disengaged?

I realize on my shaft-driven 650 this also happens where the rear wheel begins to slowly turn. How fast would the wheel have to be spinning to determine the clutch isn't working effectively?

... this goes for any bike since I seem to understand that all bikes begin to move (the rear wheel anyways) once its in gear, even though the clutch is still disengaged

Thanks MiGhost. I'll be doing some thorough investigating this weekend

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

the "moving the rear" wheel is because even dis-engaged, the clutch still has a bit of internal drag. This is enough to cause the wheel to spin, but you should be able to easily overcome it with your toe.

There is one other possibility here: your clutch cable may be worn, or even have a couple of broken strands in it so that it "stretches" rather than applying its full amount of movement to disengaging the clutch.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

When the clutch is disingaged it acts like the tork converter on an automatic trannie due to the oil. As the clutch wears there is more surface area for the oil to act against, therefor the stronger the tork converter effect is.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Good explanation guys, normally when disengaged the 'wet' clutch will be influenced by the oil-hence the moving tire that can easily be stopped. This clutch simply isn't disengaging like it should, and so something, cable, lever, or internals isn't pulling apart the plates like normal.

When adjusting the clutch on my 81 XJ550 I found there is VERY LITTLE tolerance on the disengaging side, and plenty of on the engaging side. I couldn't get mine to slip but it was easy to get it to drag.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I HAD all of the same symptoms as your bike, just replaced the friction plates today. Talk about night and day. No more wheel creep, no hard shifting, just smooth riding.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Yeah I haven't [SOLVED] this yet because I'm going to do the same thing actually. Purchasing a set of plates anyways so I'll report after that.

Bigfitz went above & beyond the call of duty for me. After discussing this with him in detail I changed the clutch cable to a much newer cable that actually had a "3rd" nut for the adjustment process. My existing clutch cable only had 2 nuts for locking it and I had to turn the cable with a 5/16" wrench. I gotta feeling that the newer cable is working much better, its just I still get a few symptoms I previously described. Its shifting better but occasionally I struggle to find neutral & it wants to creep still.

I'll report back after new friction plates are installed

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

God call on a new clutch cable, hopefully that along with new friction plates ad a proper adjustment will get you riding and shifting smoothly again

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I notice with the old clutch the SWEET spot is very narrow. Now with the new one even when the clutch cable loosened up a lot, it still shifted beautifully.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

so I haven't received my new friction plates from ebay yet... starting to get worried. That's why chacal is the go-to-guy. Its the confidence of buying online through him is what makes his business go so well.

Anyhow; I've ridden the bike as is, with a slight stiffness in shifting gears for about 30 miles over the past week or so. Due to all the rain here in western Ohio valley over the past week or so I haven't ridden much, so I fired her up last night and cruised down the road about a mile. It starts squeaking like a squirrel!! Same thing tonight. Its definitely in the clutch area and I'm thinking it could be the throw-out bearing that sits beneath the center mechanism of the clutch assembly. Somewhat noisy when driving down the road. Very noisy at idle in neutral, and no noise at all when I pull the clutch in.

I found a thread to something similar but the OP never came back to say what the problem was...

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Well God answered. And I'm still in no running order yet.

New friction plates, wafer bearing, hardened steel washer next to the wafer bearing, gasket, and a much newer cable. Now when I blip the throttle causing the clutch to operate under load, the bike DON'T move. Almost as if the plates a slipping under very little pressure.

Any help would be appreciated.

Oh, and the 5 bolts retaining the pressure plate are close, if not exactly, to torque specs.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I answered your PM. Not typing all of it over again; if it helps, post result.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

It helps. Thanks Fitz for putting up with my stupidity and failure to double check things over. The reason the clutch would not operate correctly under any type of load was because of a missing friction plate. I failed to put a new friction plate in the first position, therefore two drive discs closest to the engine were just riding along one another.

Sometimes, if not all the time, these mistakes are preventable if you just take your time. I'm back in running order with EIGHT new friction plates and SEVEN used-good condition drive discs, and new springs. I am pleased with the operating conditions and will adjust the cable accordingly to get the sweet spot in finding neutral without hesitation.

Again, thanks to everyone assisting me along the way. Like Red Green always said; "Remember, we're all in this together"

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

:wink:

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

MARCH 23, 2013 UPDATE:


question about clutch in general. rather than starting another thread I was curious to see what you all thought by just posting my question(s) on my own thread again. it's clutch related as well

The pullrod has a thrust bearing and washer. What would happen if that washer was missing and I replaced it with a washer that is same inner and outer diameter as pullrod, but the thickness is not correct?

I have done just what I asked. And now my clutch will not engage. I drop it into first gear and the bike won't move. Yes my friction and clutch plates are installed correctly, along with the clutch boss spring. Yes I aligned the dot on the pressure plate with the dot on the clutch hub. And yes I put the springs back to correct tension. Why can't I get anywhere?

Oh, and Fitz, that squealing noise I described to you went away & is not an issue. I replaced the thrust bearing along with a washer that I described above. Sorry if you feel I'm taking a shortcut; I wouldn't think a simple thickness variation for a freakin' washer would determine whether my clutch engages or not...any help determining what I missed?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Opened it up and found this. Something looks too greasy and gross going on in here. What's the cause for all this black gunk?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I guess if it was too thick it could be holding the pressure plate off slightly?

EDIT just saw the pic, looks exactly like that washer is too thick & causing the pull rod to foul and grind against the centre nut & shaft, gunk is metal filings...

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

pressure plate off what?

my thoughts were since the washer was thicker it would create more tension in the springs sooner. that was my only "problem" I believed would've happened by using a thicker washer.

To be honest, can someone find a linky or describe what the two mating surfaces do between the pullrod and that circled area on my second picture? I haven't quite understood the concept on how these clutches work

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

The end of the pullrod is holding the pressure plate off the stack, not letting the springs push the plates together. put it together without the springs and you'll see what I mean, that's why the end of the pullrod & centre nut are grinding together, you can see the circle marks where they're fouling each other right?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

nope, the gunk is greasy black smoot. There are no metal filings

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

OK

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

OK, it looks like ground up metal to my eye. But I still say it's too thick, can't you see the damage on the end of the centre nut & gearbox shaft?

EDIT-: what happens when you pull the lever is, the pullrod pulls the pressure plate to the right (toward the case) against the spring pressure & that stops it pushing the plates together.

I can see your reasoning about a thicker washer giving you more pull, you have the right idea of how it's working but there just isn't enough room for the bigger washer to fit & the whole lot is "hanging up" as the end of the pullrod hits the end of the gearbox shaft & centre nut, stopping the pressure plate from pushing against the clutch stack.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

I stand corrected Dan, and I believe I can point out what the situation is now.

Over time my pullrod has been grinding against the centre nut & gearbox shaft. I was not aware of this until I pulled out my service manual started studying the pictures. So lets move forward; Two more questions:

1. Why did my pullrod grind against the centre nut & gearbox? Fitz, could this be a reason as to why I was having high-squealing sounds I described to you?

2. What has to be replaced? I certainly don't want to change the gearbox shaft... and I don't have a clutch holding tool just laying around... fer' crying out loud this is going to be a mess and a disaster to fix properly. Any help or guidance?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Right, I see. Thinking about it, the damage does look a bit more than if it'd only just started doing it today. :? But did you not have any of that gunk last time you stripped it down?

RE-EDIT-: noise went away on reassembly with new plates, could have been caused by low stack height causing pressure plate to sit too close to clutch centre & allowing pullrod to foul centre nut.

As to why it'd be too close in the first place, only things I can think of would be incorrect stack height (too thin, pressure plate held closer to centre) or that the pressure plate/release bearing/original washer/pullrod were incorrect.
Personally, if the stack height is definitely correct (assume you measured when you replaced friction plates) I can only see an incorrect washer being the cause.

What happened to the old washer anyway?

EDIT-: first thing I'd do would be pull all the plates out & double-double check the order & stack height, as with that in spec, provided all the parts are correct for your bike & a new thrust washer is fitted, the pullrod *shouldn't* be able to foul up :?

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Ummm... how thick IS it?

The Bloke could be right; if the washer is too thick, it could have been pushing the pullrod against the center of the clutch.

And that black gunk is indeed liquified aluminum/metal.

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

UPDATE 4-28-2013:

Took the clutch boss and hub assembly apart today. Thanks again Fitz for your support with this. Is this gouge between the clutch boss and the clutch hub noticeable to anybody else??? It is prevelent on the three back sides of the bolts holding the primary driven gear... as well as the back of the clutch boss. Look closely at the back of the clutch boss within the inner diameter area where the five holes are. Do you notice the rough looking gray area also??? that is all scuffed and burred up as well...

Can someone help me identify the washer that goes between the clutch boss and the clutch housing please...(?) My clymer's manual has it labeled as [25. Washer] but the www.yamahapartshouse.com diagram shows it as a [6. Plate, Thrust 1 (3Y1-16154-00-00)]. I do have this Thrust Plate that yamahapartshouse shows but even so this thrust plate separating the clutch boss and clutch housing unit aparently has not served its purpose if I have considerable amount of rubbing marks, right?

Anyhow why in the world would I have these gouges and/or scratches? Somebody took my clutch assembly apart and didn't put it back together correctly, so I'm baffled. I never had clutch issues with my 650 but never took it apart either so I don't really know what to compare this 550 clutch to. Anybody else got pictures to help me out examining these clutch parts? Also I'm cautious about purchasing from ebay now cause if somebody else has similar situations but sells the parts online, what good would that do for me. However, new clutch assemblies could get expensive rather quickly... ugh

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

Zoomed in pictures...

 

Re: XJ550 Maxim clutch or gear selector?

The "thrust plates" that I've seen (in my 550s) were more of just a big, plate washer rather than the part illustrated.

Set the hub back in the basket with the thrust washer in between and line up the bores; is it still rubbing? It shouldn't.

If it doesn't, then I would wonder if the damage isn't from a previous misassembly that has already been corrected. If it does, replace the thrust washer and see.

 

So far the problem has gone away as of last night.

What I did was purchase a whole different assembly (basket & clutch boss, with spare plates now too) and replaced mine with the different one. My clutch boss had too many scuffs and scratches as you can tell from the above pictures. Also before mounting the clutch boss I took 1200 grit paper and polished the grooves where all the plates sit. Removed any burrs and scuffs to be certain the plates would move freely.

Put the assembly together and noticed one thing before finishing the installation. The clutch pullrod should be able to freely rotate beneath the pressure plate, even with the springs fastened to 5.8 ft.lbs. Originally the pullrod was not able to freely rotate and was pinned between the pressure plate & gearbox shaft/centre nut.

Here's my thinking... the centre nut was slowly becoming loose (I don't know how, previous owner issues I'm sure) and creating less space for the pullrod to freely move. I do recall that the centre nut was NOT tight when I removed it to separate the clutch boss and housing basket. I still had to use a clutch holding tool (thanks fitz for the spare plates) but it was not 50.5 foot-lbs like the book says it should be. Hence the reason my original pullrod was rubbing on the centre nut and gearbox shaft (see pictures above)...

So between this issue and possibly some burrs on the clutch boss grooves, I had struggled with clutch shifting for a very long time. Although it took me awhile to get around to solving the problem (recently moved outta the parents house), I'm zipping around town as of last night, and will ride for the rest of the season without a problem

I love the 550 8)

 

And we love fresh honey on our biscuits! You're welcome, and thank you!

You did use a new LOCKING TAB on the center nut, right?

 

I have a xj550r 81, with the same problem. I’ve done much work on it, part of that being replacing the clutch with springs/and all. Same problem.