XJ600/FJ600 51J Project Advice

Thanks for all the comments - I got speaking to someone who runs motorcycle maintenance and more advanced classes in the area. Unfortunately covid has done for the current semester but there's a chance they'll pick up in the new year.

You can bring bikes to work on and the classes are in a proper workshop - with a selection of tools and someone who knows how to use them.

I'll keep you updated on anything I do in the meantime but they're likely to be smaller jobs. I had been focused on a job interview lately but did that yesterday so went back the bike after work today. Just tidied the garage up and tidied up the trim I gave to the rear fender/tail so it looks fairly neat now.

@Yammaat thanks for the reply. Good to know it's a safe swap.

@k-moe cheers. I've already rounded an Allen bolt on the rear wheel holding on the brake disc. Short of getting someone to weld a nut on to it I'm at a loss. The other 5 moved but took serious work with a breaker bar.

 

Hi Gary Interesting stuff. Most enthusiast around here use what I would call 'hobby migs' up to 120A 0.6 or 0.8 wire etc.. Industrial ones are often 3 phase so that's a no no for most people also the big ones can take up a lot of space and we don't have big houses or garages in the main. Also the (argon/mix)gas is expensive. traditionally that was due ty 'British Oxygen' or BOC having a monopoly on the supply. You had to rent a gas bottle which was expensive and then pay for refill. once set up cost is OK.. BUT Pub (C02) gas is everywhere and is used to propel beer from casks and also to make fizzy soft drinks on demand. You local landlord may 'lend' you a bottle.. That said I've heard rumors that pub gas can sometimes contain nitrogen nowadays..

 

I have been looking at the Clarke Mig 90 one you referred to a100man. I might get that.

 

Hi I think the #Pro 90 is better than the 90EN. some are flux core wire only (gasless) and not much cop. Also the Pro90 has a lowest AMP setting of 20 IIRC
Should be able to pick one up s/h for 100 quid on ebay. Take care that its worked recently though ask for a video even.
Smooth wire feed is everything on these machines... I don't have a Clarke but I relined my MonoMigs torch feed with net curtain 'cable' to improve the feed!

 

Hi folks. Got my rear wheel back today so I'm going to work on cleaning it up, stripping the paint, and respraying it. I can then look at doing bearings etc. before proper reassembly. I am putting off the rear suspension swap and swingarm refurb till a later date. The plan then is to get the front end off the ground, again sort the front wheel, fit progressive springs and do a fork oil change, bearings etc. I have the calipers cleaned and ready for reassembly but I'm considering stripping their paint and respraying them as well. I'll have to rebuild the rear master cylinder too.
Then the plan is ideally to look at replacing the exhaust system and hopefully, at that stage, I'll have a running and driving XJ/FJ600 - albeit not the world's prettiest one.

In terms of shopping, I took the plunge last night and bought:

1. A new gas tank - wrong colour but looks to be in really nice condition and was a bargain price. I might see how the spare tank looks on a different bike I have and see if it's worth repairing.
   
2. A radian top clamp which is supposed to be a straight swap. Will allow me to fit any 22mm bars I want - provided they clear the fairing. A nice ebay buy and by making an offer on the buy it now price I saved £5.

All of that will be for nothing if I can't identify an electrical fault I'm experiencing. I know less than nothing about wiring. The issue isn't a lack of voltage, the battery is new and on a trickle charger. When I turn the key in the ignition I can use my lights, the neutral indicator lights up, and I hear a faint click from the fuse box. When I press the ignition I get nothing - the bike doesn't even attempt to crank. I suspect starter relay may be the issue but I'd really appreciate feedback that a simpleton like me might actually have a chance of understanding. Any electrical gurus out there - your help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Hi Ciaran

On th eback wheel you might want to check/replace bearing before you paint in case you have to get angry with teh wheel - up to you. I've no exerience with progressive springs but why do you think you need them? I'd start with just a flush and oil change to start with on the forks - are teh seals OK?. You've already got enough on your plate.

With regard to electrical the starter relay should click when you press the starter button (although usually you don't hear it above the noise of the cranking engine) I don't know what click you hear when turning the key. You can check the starter motor by taking it off and connecting direct to a 12V battrey - or if you are feeling adventurous you can try shorting the two big terminals of the starter relay with a screw-driver. You'll get some sparks but the engine should crank.

 

I had been thinking of doing the bearings after paint but I guess my main plan was to get the old paint stripped off first. Hope to tackle that process this weekend. As for the springs - I guess I don't intend to take apart this machine too often so I felt I was as well to freshen up the springs while I had it apart. Maybe there is no need to go beyond just seals and oil. I haven't identified the exact source of the click when I turn the key in the ignition but I can confirm there is no noise whatsoever when I press the starter. Simple things first - the ignition switch fuse seems to be absolutely fine. I swapped it out for one of the spares I had just in case and still nothing. I think my next step is to pull the starter motor and test to see if it works when connected directly to a battery.

Hopefully that's all it is. I assume if I had messed up in a more serious fashion then all the electrics would be buggered and not just the starter.

 

you can try the starter on the bike ,by shorting across the two large nuts on the starter solenoid, make sure the bike is out of gear, you may get some sparks, but the starter should spin.

 

So as I've said before this is my first project bike - with the result I sometimes have to wait to source appropriate tools and equipment for jobs. All this is made a little more difficult by COVID and the hassle of getting to shops (if they're even open). So that being said I've pulled the battery and the starter but I'm going to have to wait to the weekend to buy some jumper cables.

I had been thinking of applying paint stripper to the wheels etc. while they're off but looking at Bensalf's café build I think he painted over the original black. Given the amazing quality of that build - if it's good enough for him it's good enough for me. I have attached a pic of the rear wheel before - and after - some cleaning and even that alone made a big difference. I used something fairly severe on paint for the cleaning as I had originally been thinking of stripping the wheels, and I used autosol to polish the bare metal.

Finally, my new XJ tank arrived (the one on the bike has a crease from being dropped against a door frame by the PO). Coincidentally, it may just be a perfect match (well almost) for my KZ650 - which I bought a few weeks ago and aim to turn into a café racer. I know the tank isn't exactly a perfect café style but it cost me very little so I'm happy to compromise.

 

Pulled the starter motor and tested it and it spins up fine. So the problem lies elsewhere.
When I hit the ignition on the bike the lights don't dim so does that indicate that the ignition switch is to blame?

I'm disappointed that it's not the starter as at least then I'd have identified the problem and could work on sorting it out.

 

does the starter solenoid "click " when you press the starter button?
ignition on, neutral light on, kill switch on?
stu

 

I can't hear the starter solenoid click - if I hold down on the ignition nothing at all happens - complete silence. Ignition is on, neutral light is on, and kill switch is on.

I do hear a faint click when I switch the kill switch from off to on and vice versa but not sure if that really means anything.

 

are you refering to the starter button? ignition switch is the key.
the fact the lights dont dim, just means power is not getting through to the starter motor, which you already know

 

Sorry yes, starter button is what I meant.

 

so if the starter solenoid isnt clicking, does the engine spin if you short across the two large nuts on the starter solenoid , with a large screwdriver ,or the like

 

Hi everyone and hope it’s ok to crash in on this thread. An ‘87 XJ was my first bike and have biked since.
Recently bought an ‘88 Model - unfortunately awaiting pick up when restrictions ease here in Scotland. Am planning very much along this thread - get it running and MOTd then cafe racer, I think.
One thing I am considering is potentially a tank change. Heard the early RD350 tanks look good on these, in terms of lines?
Thank for all the early heads up here - you’ve saved me a bunch of trial & error.
Alan

 

Please start a thread for your bike so we can provide the help that you need without confusing future readers.

 

The tanks on these bikes in my opinion is this worst styling feature (or maybe it's the bulbous aluminium tail unit??) Anyhow the way it tails off at the rear and blends into the seat will make it difficult to re-use for teh Kwak, however if you can find a local sheet metal worker maybe you can experiment with some 'cut and shut' - after all you can't exactly ruin the looks of that KZ650 ;-)

 

Beauty is in the eye...

 

I've been inactive for a bit but I made the sensible move and disposed of the KZ650 as it was going to be a senseless money pit. Between a Christmas break and other bits this project has stalled a bit but I hope to get stuck in this weekend and prepare the rear wheel for paint and new bearings. I will also try and figure out if the solenoid needs replacing and try get that ordered asap if so.

All the comments re the tank of the XJ and I have to say I actually think they're a pretty machine with the fairing on. Not the world's most beautiful bike by any stretch but not a minger either!

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. and is why we always need people with your perspective on a lad's night out.

 

Hey Ciaran, I have an xj 650 fitted with 600 mikunis and airbox - my question is, how the heck do you get at the idle speed screw to adjust it - it's buried way in there between the airbox and the starter?

 

the idle knob has notches on the end , get a long flat blade screwdriver and set the end in a notch, and lightly tap the end of the screwdriver , from the r.h. side of the bike, tap at the bottom to increase revs , tap at the top to decreace
stu

 

Thanks - I had thought about doing it this way, it just felt wrong.

 

So, absolutely terribly overdue with an update on this bike. I took a chance on ordering a replacement starter relay because mine was in such shoddy shape and I fitted the replacement last weekend. The replacement is slightly larger than the original so stuffing all the wiring back into place turned into a right nightmare and will have to be addressed properly down the line. At first I thought my work had been for nought - not a peep from the bike. Of course, I had been an idiot and had the engine stop firmly at off.

A flick of that this evening and she tried to turn over. I refitted the old tank and let a bit of petrol through but she doesn't want to start right now which is a shame. Battery has been on a trickle charge and I fitted new spark plugs a few months ago so had hoped she would go. I'll try again in the daylight and see if I missed anything obvious.

We're in near total lock down right now here in Ireland but I'm hopeful that I might be able to get vaccinated in the autumn. There's a motorcycle repair course a few miles away and I spoke to the guy who runs it previously - people all bring project bikes to it to learn what to do with them. In the interim I'll try and tackle smaller jobs as and when I can get my hands on parts. I now have my mind firmly set on a pure resto mod so the bike will largely look as it would have new (all going well). I am relenting through and have gotten the top clamp from a radian and will fit standard 22mm bars to it down the line. The one trick piece I might splash on are the rebel moto switchgear - I've seen them on a few bikes and think they just look amazing.

Now that I don't appear to have any electrical gremlins to chase down I am feeling motivated so I'm going to try and tip away a little bit every day - I have just switched jobs and have a few other commitments so finding time will be the challenge.

 

I have done this with a stick as a roadside adjustment.

 

I have done this with a stick as a roadside adjustment.

 

What's the plan for these switches? Start and kill ? setting up for indicators could be a nuisance.

WRT to lockdown my friend in Co. Donegal is still working and gets stopped once or twice a day by the Garda to check on her while driving to and from work. Seems like they have nothing better to do at the moment!

 

Yeah the indicators could be the problem. Rather than a switch you end up with an independent button for each indicator left and right. I had a think about it before and it's amazing how many functions standard switchgear takes care of. It seems the rebel moto switches pair really nicely with the m-unit - so buttons can cycle through functions. I'm not entirely sure just yet what is down the line for it - those are style considerations I'll have to keep till nearer the end of the project - one I'm only just scratching the surface of. This guy (skip to 12:20) runs through a brief overview of how his system is set up with the rebel moto switches.

 

Just like BMW. Though their switches are one on each bar.

 

yeh , pretty sure if you use the motogadget control box ,you would loose any self cancelling feature ,for the indicators
stu

 

Hi. sorry to revive an old thread but I've finally gotten around to working on this bike again. Just summarising where I am to date on it for anyone looking now.

So last year I got the bike running with an oil change, new battery, new filters (oil and air), and new spark plugs, and an inline fuel filter. It ran for a while before dying completely. I have no understanding of electrics but by process of elimination guessed that the starter relay was at fault. Replacing that with a new relay got the bike turning over again but it won't start. And so the project rested while life got in the way.

I recently returned to the project and found that I have spark, and fuel (at least getting to and through the clear filter). I knew the carbs would need a rebuild and suspect they're gummed up and need a rebuild.
So today I set about the task and reached the point the Haynes manual optimistically refers to as 'sliding' the carburetor backwards to release it from the intake rubbers. Well, I've nearly put my back out and was nearly lifting the front of the bike off the ground trying to release the carbs. I've slid the airbox backwards as per the manual, loosed all the clamps, the throttle cable, and technically nothing should be stopping the carbs from coming loose.

I'm trying to keep those intake manifold rubbers intact as they're very expensive to replace - but - given they've been there since 1989 (as far as I can see they look in reasonable condition) should I replace them anyways?

 

They may look good but will be hard as a rock with no flexibility. That is why they are fighting you in getting the carbs off. A heat gun or even a hair dryer may soften them up enough to get the carbs off. Then you can evaluate, but would be best to get new ones. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the reply. After posting this on Sunday I went back out and used a heat gun to try and soften them up and with some difficulty managed to get them off. Only got as far as removing the float bowls (which were well on there). The float bowls themselves were amazingly clean. I hope to order everything I need for a carb rebuild this week and will post photos when I tackle the job in full.

 

Glad to hear you got them off. If the old rubbers are not cracked, you can put them in boiling water or just use the heat gun again when you put the carbs back on.

 

Google for "Rubber softening with wintergreen"
It works. If the rubber isn't cracked this will prevent it from doing so for a long time. However, it only buys time before they definitely need replaced. That might be a year, maybe two or more.

 

Hi all, long time since I posted (life very much got in the way). But I have a bit of an update. I somewhat lost hope on this project and briefly considered selling the bike when I saw an XJ900 in good condition for sale for small money from a reputable dealer but ultimately I decided to commit to a restoration.

The bike is with a mechanic who has a number of vintage yamahas of his own and he is working on it when his shop is quiet. He has given it a once-over to make sure there are no catastrophic issues that would require significant unforeseen costs and it has gotten a clean bill of health.

I'm hopeful that the swap to the top clamp from the 1991 model is as smooth as I read (about a year ago now). I have invested in new springs for the front suspension and will research the best option for a budget rear shock replacement given the one on the bike has seen better days. I think my only option for a replacement exhaust (new) is from Marving so that's the next big purchase.

Other than price I can't determine the difference between their 4/1 Master and 4/1 Racing systems so if anyone is familiar / or can even hazard an educated guess I'd be glad to hear it.

 

The XJ is alive. Just got it back from my mechanic yesterday and there's some fine tuning required but it is running and driving. I love how light and flickable it is, plenty of power, and stops well. Cosmetically it's a hot mess though.
I need to sort the carbs out a bit more, he had to adjust the air fuel mix and the power comes on a bit strangely in first as it is. I also need wing mirrors that will give me more clearance with the fairing - as it is the handlebars are tilted backwards to stop the brake reservoir hitting the fairing at full lock.

Mods (front to back): Braided brake lines (rebuilt brakes with new pistons etc), new progressive Wirth springs, new led indicators (matching at rear), top yoke conversion to run gazzini sports bars, nissin master cylinder, new wing mirrors (to be replaced), replacement fuel tank (old one had a big crease in it), Marving exhaust, YSS rear suspension.

Mods to come: New bellypan, new mirrors, bar ends, replacement rearsets (I bought a set of Tarozzi rearsets that were advertised as a direct fit but the mechanic couldn't fit them, considering Raask rearsets).

Comments, suggestions, criticism welcome.

 

The original mirrors have a weird horizontal dogleg on them before they rise to the mirror head, might be that's what you need.
As far as I know, the fairing is the same part as on the XJ9, the belly pan might be, too.

 

These are good copies of the originals, as far as I know.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172030515544

 

Thanks Dave. It's partly a consequence of moving away from the stock bars. I splashed out on some bar end mirrors last night and I'll find a different way to mount the master cylinder to work around the issue. I have a supplier that makes the mounting kit and replica belly pans in Germany - their website is trade only but if oyu contact them directly they do sales to individuals as well.

My main issue is that I need new springs and diaphragms for e the carbs. I expected them to be cheap parts but from my usual websites they're either not available or ludicrously expensive.

Any sources/non oem alternatives would be really greatly appreciated.

 

http://jbmindustries.com/
Is worth a careful look for diaphragms and boots, as long as you know exactly what fits.
Carb springs are a problem - they're bound to be shared with other models, but that kind of info is lost.
However, the '88 FJ600 shares that spring with... (cross-check your carbs)
https://www.partzilla.com/product/y...?ref=70e6260b457db865fd2ac94088bc83f6423f4db5

 

I never expected things to be held up by such small parts being so hard to source. At great expense I can get the carb diaphragms new from Japan. Those screws seem to be non-existent though.
I'm wondering if the springs need to be super specific? My mechanic did mention he had some second hand springs he felt would work - so the diaphragms were my main concern. Would have been nice to get new springs while I was at it.

I'm considering getting Raask rearsets as the Tarozzi's I bought weren't a fit according to my mechanic (still waiting on the retailer to get back to my lodged complaint on that one!), but I hope to also order the replica bellypan and mounting kit soon too.

 

The spring values are critical to carb function, so must match and be very close to the originals.
What's wrong with the old ones, and is there a good one you can measure the strength of?

 

I managed to get the springs in from Japan but got badly stung with the diaphragms. They were supposedly the right ones to fit the bike but in the end weren't a match.

Between the diaphragms and the rearsets I'm out of pocket quite a lot for no benefit.