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Xj650 maxim - rear wheel offset?

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Jmkrull, May 20, 2018.

  1. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Just wondering if the rear wheel is offset. I’m trying to align the wheels and they do t match up, even with the adjustment screw dimed in the whole way or out the whole way. Any tips?
     
  2. XJ550H

    XJ550H Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    your xj650 has a rear adjuster? got a photo?

    chain drives have adjusters.,

    my 650 s do not have adjusters, shaft drive

    the only thing at rear wheel to adjust is the rear brake
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  3. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Sure thing:
    [​IMG]

    And here’s what I’m looking at:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Maybe it’s supposed to be dog-style?
     
  4. Door dude

    Door dude Active Member Premium Member

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    I wonder if PO. took the driveshaft off at some point and forgot to put a spacer pack in on reinstallment ??
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    That isn't an alignment adjuster. The swingarm bearings are tapered rollers, and that adjustment is to set the bearing preload. See section 19 in that chapter, and re-do your work so the bearings aren't damaged.


    Sometimes wheel spacers get damaged when shops change tires.

    The rear isn't perfectly in alignment with the front anyway.

    How close is the crown-edge of the tire to the left side of the swingarm? There should be about 1/8" of a gap with stock size tires.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  6. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Any missing spacer would be in the final drive, or wheel.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  7. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    All present and accounted for, so it seems...

    There a washer behind the castle nut, spacer tube in the final drive spline cavity, the axle, a washer on the brake-side outside cover and the bearings and stuff in between. If there’s one gone, I’m not sure where it’d go.
     
  8. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Something has to be F’d up. I’ll pull it apart tomorrow and see what’s up
     
  9. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    It’s about an 8th of an inch, actually. Looks close, but I can see space and the ruler is giving me that. The more I look at the manual, the less I think there’s anything missing. Just seems odd. Maybe I never noticed. I read that shaft bikes have offset rear wheels, maybe ours is...
     
  10. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    you have to start at the back, pull the string forward and make the front wheel true to the back. check that the wheels are square to the floor too
     
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  11. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    There's another spacer in the final drive housing. It's shown in the "FINAL DRIVE" folder of the parts catalog, not in the rear axle diagram:

    HCP4751 OEM rear wheel center hub SPACER TUBE this 2-1/2" long tube spacer fits into the wheel hub, and the HCP1795 flanged spacer ring fits onto the right end of it. For all XJ550 Seca, XJ650, XJ700, and all XJ750 (except XJ750RL models), Each:

    HCP12325 OEM final drive output/wheel clutch hub SPACER TUBE this almost 3” long tube spacer fits on the wheel side of the final drive housing, into the splined clutch hub on the left side of the wheel. If this spacer is missing, you will not be able to align the rear wheel properly side-to-side within the swingarm. For all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and all XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models. Each:
     
  12. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Hey, yeah, I have that in there. Didn’t really think of it since it just kinda keeps the bearings put. The tube with the lip.

    That tube in red is currently in the final drive housing. It’s thick and heavy.
     
  13. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Well, from what I recall (don't have them in front of me), both of the spacers are pretty much the same size/shape/etc.........in fact, because the only meaningful difference between the two if their length (2.5" vs. 3"), it's easy to get them swapped.
     
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  14. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    So, I took the wheel off and everything is present and in th right spot but I looked at the chapter 19 kmoe was talking about to load the swingarm bearings. I think it may be starting at the swingarm and affecting the tire.

    So, It doesn’t say much about the order or process of those two bolts, just to “slacken the nut on the adjustment side and tighten it down to 5-6kgs). Does the other side have to be fully torqued or does that happen afterwards? Does anyone know the order of operations?
     
  15. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The opposite side is just tightened and the special locking tab staked. There is absolutely no adjustment possible at the swingarm, so it cannot be out of alignment.
     
  16. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    The non adjustable side gets tightened and locked first with the locking washer. Then you tighten the adjustable side to ~ 50 in-lb or until the swing arm pivots smoothly with no side to side play. Once that is achieved you tighten the lock nut to 72 ft-lb without disturbing the pivot shaft.

    As far as alignment, there really is no adjustment for the rear. I'm not sure if the wheels are supposed to be aligned, maybe you could try the front fork reset procedure to ensure those are in alignment. If you search up the forum you will find some good posts from Dave on the procedure.
     
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  17. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Sounds good. I’m beginning to think maybe it’s just the tire being a little wider than stock since they’re both relatively new. Just seems the factory didn’t leave a ton of room between the arm and tire
     
  18. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    This part is true! Not the first to question the small gap there.
     
  19. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    I went back to the swingarm and when I load the bearings tightening down the dogeared lock nut side to torque then loading the adjuster side to 50, I barely have enough bolt left to put the lock nut on it (maybe 2.5/3 rotations). Then, I put the tire on and it’s fine until I tighten the castle nut, it’ll hit the swingarm. I’m not sure what to do. The swingarm is bearing, seal, spacer each side (not really hard to mess up, i guess). I really don’t want to start pulling stuff out either, it’ll break my heart to basically disassemble the bike again. I took some pictures of my setup:

    This was in the final drive:
    [​IMG]

    This is flush on both sides:
    [​IMG]

    Final Drive looking in:
    [​IMG]
     
  20. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    This doesn't sound right. Did the left side regular bolt seat all the way?
     
  21. Jmkrull

    Jmkrull Member

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    Yeah, it’s in there. Before I disassembled it, the adjuster was out quite a bit, but the arm could shake a bit horizontally, so I wonder if it was because of the tire or something?
     
  22. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    You are correct, not much you can get wrong on the swing arm installation. Do you have the "collar" in place on both sides? If not, that would cause some issues. Are you running a stock size tire?

    Swing Arm.png
     
  23. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    Here are some other pics that might help.

    Wheel clearance to see if you wheel is off center:

    Right side dang close to 1.5"

    IMG_1970.jpg

    Left side is close:

    IMG_1968.jpg

    Here's where my adjustment is at:

    IMG_1969.jpg
     
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  24. kerriskandiesinc

    kerriskandiesinc Active Member

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    Whats more important than 'just' clearance, is how much your F and R wheels are, in line.....how much 'off' is that alignment ....swingarm or frame tweaked???

    I DO remember a Bike (UK) motorcycle mag, from the early 80's. testing the (then) new GSXR750's at the B'ol D'or 24 Hour races....they measured and rechecked the fresh out of the crate F>R tyre alignment, and it was off.....maybe 2-3 mm's....when asked, the present Suzuki technicians said.....'inscrutably?..."Who says Front and Rear wheels have to align?"........
     
  25. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    They are right.

    I know that the rear on my and a friend's first-gen Viragos aren't aligned with the front. The same goes for my XJ, and many of the other shaft-driven XJs that I've worked on.
    Many of the early belt-drive bikes (cogged belts, not the leather belts from the golden age) also have rear wheels that are not meant to be in-line with the front.
     
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  26. kerriskandiesinc

    kerriskandiesinc Active Member

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    This was a (race derived ) chain drive GSXR750 though, lol !!!
     
  27. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    I realise. It's still not all that uncommon for the rear to be offset from the front.
     
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  28. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    that clearance looks about right to me. mine was touching so i smoothed the weld on the swingarm a little and spun the tire and touched the very edge with a disk sander.
    now it's about 3/8 inch clearance. once it's all tight, clearance is clearance
    this was a 130 kenda tire
     
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  29. kerriskandiesinc

    kerriskandiesinc Active Member

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    F R inline, as much as can be, more important than clearance........
     
  30. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Yamaha didn't think so. They never were directly in-line to begin with. In any case, the two stop being in-line as soon as a turn is initiated.

    The one exception is if the front (when pointed straight ahead) and rear aren't rolling on parallel planes. If the rear has any caster to it, she'll handle like crap and tend to want to crab. For a shaft-driven XJ, that condition would indicate a bent frame or bent swingarm.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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