Best way to get valve cover bolts out without stripping

Hey guys.
I know, they take a 5mm allen.
And they fit real tight, no play, and nowhere near stripped.
SO I want to KEEP them this way.
I got one loose with a regular old L shaped allen wrench.

But the others feel like they are going to snap my stanley brand allen wrench. I was going to use liquid wrench penetrating oil and then get a 5mm allen on a socket and crank with that.
Does that sound right?

I have NEVER used liquid wrench or any penetrating oil, do they really work? I have only used WD-40 when I could get in around the bolt and underneath it, but obviously I can't do that with a valve cover bolt.

Should I heat around the head area for each bolt?
Should I try the crayon or flux trick instead of the penetrating oil?

Every screw/bolt on this bike is mint and no signs of stripping or wrong size tools used, anywhere.

Also - is this: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-8-SOFT-GRIP-IMPACT-DRIVER-SCREWDRIVER-w-CASE-BITS_W0QQitemZ280269429548QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280269429548&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318
An ok quality impact driver?
I am trying to spend as little as possible assuming I will need up to 8 new shims.
I have to now look into the rest of the valve train, I hear you should also check the valves themselves?...And the buckets can wear out? God... I don't want to go too far into this...

 

This is the most important tool in my tool box for removing bolts on these bikes.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Brand-New-Ridgid-Co ... 7C294%3A50

I've taken three XJx down to the frame and stripped ONE bolt total...actually two, but I had the wrench on clockwise instead of counter-clockwise so I chalk that up to operator error

It's priceless in my opinion.

And YES, penetrating oil will help a lot on some bolts, but the valve cover bolts are sealed to keep in the oil (and at the same time keep out whatever you spray on them)

 

Figured that about the oil lol.

At this point I'd rather spend the cash on the shims/gasket/donuts.
So a cheap impact driver is what I am after really. That looks like a solid one though, I will be getting one eventually.

Thanks Mike.

 

heat gun, penetrating oil.

 

+1 on the impact driver. It will only take one snapped bolt for the wish that you had purchased one which is then followed by the thought entering your mind that the $60 would have been worth it. I can speak form experience after snapping two bolts off that hold the outside fins on the X. I spent hours undoing what had been done.

The old, and ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure type thing. If you happen to snap one of those puppies off, you are going to spend more than $60 replacing the head gasket (since you will have to remove the head to take it to the machine shop) and machine shop costs of removing the broken stud.

If you try other methods, be very careful. I used a 5mm socket head on a ratchet. So, I got more than enough torque to the bolt. The problem was that when I thought it had broken free, I had actually snapped the bolt off. So be very, very careful.

 

That's what I DON'T want... O_O
Broken Bolts are my worst fear.

No way I am getting an impact driver in all those bolts though... the center ones are way in there. From what I have heard, the center 4 are not as hard to take out. So should I just go with the socket idea? Tap tap instead of yank on it?

 

Joe there was a lot of 20 of those bolts on ebay yesterday They were listed as off a vmax but are the same as our X bolts from the looks of it. If I had the few bucks to spare I thought about getting them even tho I don't need any.

 

If you try the socket idea, I would place the head in the bolt and give it some nice firm raps. When you try to loosen the bolt, DON'T crank on it with one good pull or keep increasing your torque waiting for it to break free. That is what I did, and you are likely to experience similar results as I did. The steel in those bolts is a little on the brittle side.

You may want to use a solid breaker bar head and do the tap tap (not firm raps) like you mentioned and see if you can get them to break loose. If you don't see any progress, step away and spend the money on an impact driver. You'll only get one shot with a mistake coming at a high price.

 

Yeah, we'll see how 'tap tap' goes if it doesn't seem nice, I'll have to get a driver.

I have broken some bolts doing car brake jobs... not fun.
And those extractor sets? 75% useless.

 

Valve cover bolts are pretty beefy, doubt you'll break one of those. The "tapping" trick really won't do any good the bolts have shoulders stopped against the head. Slip a box wrench over the end of your allen and give a tap or two it'll break free.

 

Get yourself an impact driver. The kind you hit with a hammer. Hopefully you already have a set of allen wrenches that fit a 3/8 rachet driver.
This is mine:
Impact Driver

$23US plus shipping.

Saved me LOTS of hassle over the years. Cheap. Effective. Dun.

 

Just wondering how an pnuematic impact driver would be , is it too much oomph and brake bolts ?

 

Same principle but with air. Should be OK. If using 1/2 inch, I would turn the adjustment down and gradually work it up until the bolts freed.

 

Fitzy can you explain the box wrench trick?

 

I'll try. This is viewed from above; the black bar is your allen wrench in the top of the bolt (the round bit.) The blue shape is a crude depiction of a box wrench viewed from the side; you slip the "box" end over the allen wrench, the points in the box end will "engage" the allen wrench enough to keep it from sliding about and you can use the box wrench like an extender handle. CRUDE BUT EFFECTIVE (kinda like the drawing, but it's 6:40am gimme a break.) Depending on the size box wrench you use you might have to "flip it over" to get good leverage on the allen wrench.

Hard to explain but once you do it you'll understand. I can get you a pic but that would be this evening.

 

fitz
those red arrows look as if you are tightening the bolt. But then again it is 6:40 in the morning

 

why dont you try the same concept as the impact gun with out it. take you rachet set and you rachet 5mm allech head. put it on and turn it for the loosen. then pull it back the other way to tighten but not as hard. then pull it harder to the loosen side. and keep doing this. thats what an impact gun does. the only difference is some impact guns also push down. i would try it with the rachet i feel better knowing that i have full control. partly why i drive a standard vehicle. used penetracting lube any way it cant hurt even if you are using and impact gun.

 

Galamb; Yep it was 6 am. That's why it isn't a picture. The diagram is looking from above, and we're turning counter-clockwise. Loosening, honest.

 

Nice picture Fitz. Very informative.

 

I have two 82 XJ650 bikes. Both bikes had 17,000 miles when I bought them. I have removed both valve covers with a cheapo allen wrench. The force required is a little bit scary but all of the bolts came out with no problems.

 

Nice pic Fitz I have used a small pipe but that is a good trick.

 

Really not that bad a drawing fitz! lol

I am just worried about snapping the allen that way.


Halfcentury, thank you for that input. That makes me pretty happy actually.
I definately get what you are saying about 'scary force' because that is why I am worried.
I will try popping these off tonight

Thanks guys.

 

If you do, either you gotta buy better tools or Chuck Norris better start looking for a place to hide...

 

Tell ya what. If you're still 'up in the air' in regard to the technique, I'll shoot an actual photograph this evening and post it.

 

Nah I get the technique, just worried but then again - allens are cheap!

 

Oh yeah, and you can forget 'if' I can break them.
I can.

Chuck Norris... I'm on to you boy!

 

Hey guys - update.
Bought a $22 impact screwdriver from Hope Depot.
I know, coulda bought cheaper.
But it seems real heavy duty.

I used it to get my sidecover off.
Worked like a charm (had to remove aftermarket engine guards they blocked bottom left screw)
I will say, tested moving the crank and it was scary at first.
Felt like I was just moving the timing plate instead. But then I saw it turning the crank itself and then head the suction in the carbs.

Also, what I am most happy about.
Got a 5mm socket and cranked those valve cover bolts open.
The inside 4 had to use a standard allen, and it worked fine.
Outside 8... oh my jesus. Scary!

Put pressure on it, and wouldn't budge. Didn't really put a LOTTTT into it, but it was scaring me as is. Then POP! Oh crap I broke it! Wait no. It's loose. Thank god.

I went through that 'OH CRAP, oh, OK...' 8 solid times. lol.
I have yet to pop it off. Saving that for tomorrow (don't want to leave it uncovered all night).

I have all day tomorrow to measure clearances and such. Can't wait.
Think I will paint my aftermarket engine guards before they go back on, as well as MAYBE find some bicycle pegs to install as highway pegs

SO Happy that stuff is LOOSE!

 

Did mine, and went through the same senerio of Oh Crap.. phewww.. but it was either they came off, or they were coming off, either way it was getting done. Have No Idea why the hell someone would put those on so freak'n tight!!! I mean you snug them on and slight hair for good measure, not reef the living snot out of them! have 2 front centre donuts to change, probably sunday and no more Leaks YAYAY!!!! Good luck on the Valves tomorrow DPaw =)

 

dpawl, glad you went for the piece of mind. That tool will pay for itself many times over.

 

I used a rubber hammer to get the valve cover off once the screws were out. Tap tap tap tap tap tap. 10-15 minutes of tapping. You will have to get used to hitting the cover pretty hard to get it loose after its been screwed down for years.

 

Tapping may not be as effective as using the RickCoMatic hammer handle tool and a couple of strategic "pries" it will pop right off. The wooden handle won't damage anything.

 

I wish I had known about that when I was removing my valve covers.

Those header pipes in your pic are jealousy-inducing rust-free.

 

that's what I was going to do because I read your guide fitz

 

Got the cover off and started checking, please go here and help me! lol

 

You won't believe the secret: eBay. It took mixy-matching from four different eBay exhaust systems plus the original on one bike to get two good sets for my Secas. Then only a couple weeks ago, I got just the two right side pipes COMPLETELY rust free but the #4 has some nasty dings in it. But I got an absolutely perfect #3 out of the deal, and it wasn't expensive. I've been "pipe sniping" for a while now and finally have really clean sets on both bikes, except I still need a pristine #2.