Wow. This beats MY dash 'thing'

I bought this thing @ Walmart, has two temp zones and a clock.
Bought it so I'd have a clock, and the temp.
2nd temp zone gives me wind chill. Awesome.

Basically, I found a way better version, which has exactly what I want.
A battery monitor with DIGITAL readout, screw the needle!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DIGITAL- ... ccessories


Oh yeah! Buyin' that next Friday!

 

Interesting, but where would you mount it?

mikeg

 

Look at the discription " water RESISTENT" Are you planning to pull it off the bike when it rains?

I Have had experience with some "water resistent" products that are VERY water resistent. Keep us posted on how this works out.

 

i dig it .... i think that would be a good C.Y.A. part to have monitoring your stator output in real time throughout your ride, but it does present an issue for me - unless i can stuff it in my helpmet i have nowhere to put it

I need the 2in X 2in version

 

Not sure what you mean here. The FTC blocked companies, most specifically watch companies, for using the term WaterProof back in 1960's. Even a Rolex Sea Dweller, which is rated for like 3300ft of immersion, is labelled Water Resistant.

 

I have the 1.5" X 2" version. I wondered when I first got my first Seca 550 how useful the volt meter actually would be, or why they included it in the first place. Now I know and it's like the world's tiniest security blanket.

 

I mainly wanted a cheap battery monitor with digital read, since the needle isn't all accurate to read - especially @ speed!
Searched EBAY couldn't find what I wanted, till I snagged a peek at that.
Love it, can't wait.

As for where, not dead on positive but I think straight across the top of the gauges. As for waterproof... we'll see when I get it. If I don't trust it, I'll set it up as removable with a removable wire setup.

Can't wait to see the voltage changes! I build custom PC's and love watching voltages to overclock and such. In a PC, the voltages are supposed to NOT move, but I want to see the bike one move!

 

I have one of these on my seca. works very well. I went a step farther and rewired the external temp wires to a temp sensor between my return line on my oil cooler. I get to see the post cooled oil in real time. I also mounted an electric fan to my oil cooler for in town driving and I get to see how effective the fan becomes when I turn it on.

Anyway,

I found this gadget to be really useful and I mounted it just under my gauges between the bars and the turn signal indicators under the gauges. Fits great.

 

Rotory- is it the same exact thing?

The temp really goes high enough to read the oil temp? If so, I might mount that somewhere I can read mine!

 

Now THAT'S entertainment. I wonder if it can keep up with the turn signals? (The turn signal flasher seriously drops the voltage as it operates.) It won't be boring...

 

lol, seriously Fitz... I'm gonna be smiling at myself... probably get some VERY odd looks from others!

 

SQLGuy,
In reference to the water resistence thing. I understand that all watches are labeled water resistent even though they are good to 3300 ft. They say that so if there is ever an incursion they are not responsible, although Rolex would cover this. But in 30 years spent on the lakes rivers and high seas I have seen my share of water resistent components last 30 minutes in the rain then take a crap. If they last 30 min they are water resistent. I bought a digital clock for my bike last year that was "water resistent" and after 2 weeks of intermitent rain, no problem. But after 430 miles in the rain it went south.

I was not being critical of the purchase, just would like to know if in fact it holds up in the rain.

This question comes out of experience, not meant to offend anyone.

The Buff

 

Well, I finally got around to buying this, and decided to take a look at other stuff before I committed.

Not going to get it, unless I don't like the other one, but check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-GL ... 240%3A1318

Pretty slick looking right? I just don't like the idea of 'its somewhere between 12 and 12.5' lol, allthough I think it's a bit more accurate.

So I found what I already posted above, except $25 + $3 shipping instead! Sweet! That's better than $40 for sure!

So it's on the way, will let you know when I get it, and how it does.

On a sidenote, the seller I bought from was also selling this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MOTORCYCLE-TURN-SIG ... 7C294%3A30

Hmm... that right there makes me want to go LED. Anyone even try something like it?

 

I've never undstood the purpose of "load equalizers". They just add resistance to the turn signal wiring so that the stock flasher (and, in the case of Yamaha's, the auto-canceller too)----which requires a certain amount of "load" in order to operate properly----will continue to function. LED's have such a tiny power draw requirement that they don't put enough load on a stock flasher to allow it to operate.

But the whole idea of LED's is to reduce the power requirement on the electrical system (alternator), and once you add these resistors back into the system, well.....there goes the electrical system "savings" because that load is now being created by the resistors in the pretty red box, instead of in the filaments within the stock incandescent bulbs.

And except in certain instances, stock 27W turn signal bulbs are much brighter than any single aftermarket LED bulb, and even the bulb arrays of 20, 30, etc. LED bulbs.

So: same electrical load on the alternator, less light output, and the expense of new signals and the load equalizer.

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Len.

Now - to go LED I was under the assumption it was a wicked pain.

What is the problem with a faster flashing blinker?

Can't you just swap out the relay for a LED one?

What is involved?

 

If you just substitute LED's in these bikes, you won't get a "faster blink rate", you'll get "no blink rate", as the the load being drawn thru the flasher will not be enough to heat up the contact spring enough to force it open (and that's what makes and breaks the circuit, i.e. making the signals "flash" on and off as the circuit opens and closes.

Some type of automotive relays respond in the opposite manner, when a bulb is out (= less electrical load on the signal wiring circuit), they flash faster (in order to let you know that a bulb is out). I believe that those are all solid-state type of relays; the older mechanical types just stop flashing at all when they don't have enough load on them.

You can use a solid-state (what they call an "LED-compatible relay") in the system, but you lose the self-cancelling function, since it works off of the stock relay, and solid state relays don't have the proper internal wiring and current flows to allow the self-canceller to operate.

 

Hmm.

Well.

I think I'll go solid state then. Because honestly, I thought it was certain models with the self-cancel. Apparently those few times I sat at a long light and the blinker went off, it wasn't just me losing my mind. haha. I don't need self cancel, I am a trained blinker-turner-offer-er. lol.

Thanks Len. Will get LED's and a relay when I find a good place to (probably shmeebay!)

 

You missed Len's point regarding LED turn signals:

Len's right you know; most LED turn signals* are much less visible to "other motorists" (cage jockeys) so unless you have a burning need to "unload" your system a bit, then why?

You can get sexier bulb-lit turn signals; I used FJ/Radian style Yamaha "pattern" aftermarket signals on my '83 (thanks again Len.)

*I said turn signals I did't want to re-open the LED tail light debate.

 

I'd say it was your bike losing its mind. The self-cancel used on the XJ's is time AND DISTANCE based. So, even if you're at one of those lights where your bike doesn't have enough metal to trigger the change, the flashers will still keep flashing and not auto-cancel.

By the way, Len, there's no bimetallic strip or heating involved in the XJ flasher module (at least not in the Nippon Denso ones used in the Seca 750s). It uses a pair of coils wound on the same pole piece of the relay. The flash cycle is basically an RL time constant where the current draw of the lamps actually causes the relay to open. I wrote up more about it here: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14068.html

Cheers,
Paul

 

I really like the Radian turn signals as well. On the other hand, I do have a need to reduce electrical draw on my system to offset the load of the fuel injection components.

On the third hand :wink: I've got to say that my (cheap) LED turn signals are WAY bright and very noticable. I expect they're at least as bright as stock, for about 1/20th the power draw. I'll see about making a short video one of these days if you're interested.

Cheers,
Paul

 

Yes, I would like to ses them. I've never been satisifed with any of the various aftermarket 1156 or 1157 style LED buls that I've tried....and I've tried a bunch. I even had some custom-fit LED boards made stuffed full of the brightest LED's they had for both the round and square turn sunal housings and the rear brake light (550/650/750 Maxim style tail light housing) and..........zip. The stock 27W high-output bulbs beat them hands down in brightness. The LED's draw much less power, and have the instant-on/off feature, but in terms of brightness, it was a huge letdown.....


Didn't realize that about the flashers. So what are those contact points inside used for?

 

They're relay contacts.

I didn't say that these flashers were solid state; I said that there's no heating involved - their flash interval is based on how long the current drawn by the bulbs takes to energize a coil (build up a magnetic field) rather than how long it takes to heat and deform a bimetallic strip.

Here's a video with one of my old turn signals with the standard 1156 bulb hung up next to one the LED turn signals. The old turn signal is just jumpered to the battery, so it's on all the time here and getting actually a bit more voltage than the LEDs (since they're running through the turn signal switch, ignition switch, and flasher module). I think you can see it in the video, but from straight on the LEDs are definitely brighter than the bulb unit. From well off-axis the bulb unit is a bit brighter than the LEDs, but they still have good off-axis brightness as well.

http://residentialcolorado.com/images/LEDTurnSignal.AVI

Cheers,
Paul

 

It's interesting to note that Resistor/Inductor timing circuits would be less of an energy penalty then the bi-metallic strip circuits, when discussing regular bulbs.

The inductor gives back its magnetic energy into the system after the voltage is released. The heat, obviously, is lost for good off the bimetallic strip.

 

So, Len, what did you think of the brightness of those LED's?

 

You can still retain the auto cancel feature with a little fancy wiring. I posted a diagram (with part numbers even) that i drew up a while back on how to make it work. I'll look for it and post the link.

 

Do so, that would be great...

 

as requested...

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=13520.html

 

Funny, I just sort-of cross-posted on your thread. We had done a lot of the same work on this stuff and I had also posted how to on basically the same circuit (on the FAQ suggestions forum), as well as details on making LED tail lights work with the SECA computer.

Cheers,
Paul

 

Hey Paul, my box needs more sw to view that file, and I'm not in the mood right now for that, so I'll look at it later!

 

It's an AVI file... Chacal - are you on a MAC? lol... Boo, that's like ridin' a Honda and selling Yamaha parts...

 

ok guys. I got the dash thing. its 5 1/2inches long 1 inch tall and 3/4 inch thick.
it has a constant power and ground - and a 12v signal sense to turn it on, which I will attach to the wire in the bucket that I wired my driving lights to.

now the hard part. where and how to attach it? I want it up front so I can watch my voltage while riding. but there are not any real good spots. any suggestions? I'm almost thinking of the gas tank... but would really like it on the dash area somehow. almost thinking of covering low side of tach since theres nothing there, and keeping it more on that side to keep my speedo trip visible.

ideas/suggestions?

 

Can you mount it on top of the handlebar brackets - on top of the triple tree?

Can you post a pic of it next to your gauges so we can get a better idea?

 

OK so here are the pics of where I think are my only options.

Aside from somehow making some kind of mount for on the gas tank.
Ideas?

First off, the gas tank:

I'd have to fabricate something, and I'd be stuck with some wires somewhere...

On the bars, well, it's a bit uneven, but somehow it could work.


This just won't work, more or less to show you the size.


Last but not least, what I think is the most feasible idea.



Now a bit off the topic of mounting options, I DID wire it in temporarily and just stick it up front to test it out.
One note - don't let it touch a spark plug wire haha. BEEP BEEP BEEP lol.

Anyway, at idle I was 12.2~12.4v.
If I flick on my matching 30 watt driving lights, I droop to 12v or 11.9v. Willing to bet the longer with idle, the lower it will go lol.

BUT! As I rolled up the motor... Ooo... 13volt... oooo! 13.5v...

I was averaging ~14.1v and hit nearly 14.8v at one point. Cruising @ 6k on the highway I believe I was sitting dead set @ 14.6v.
All of the above voltages : WITH my 30 watt lights on. Are you kidding? Guess my alternator brushes don't need looking at... O_O
Awesome.

Can't wait to get it mounted. Heck, it even has a black ice alert and freezing temps alert, as well as stopwatch, and two temp zones.
God, Best $28 I think I've spent on a 'fluke' item in a long time.

 

What about above the gauges, between the windshield and the package.

 

not enough room, shield is virtually on the gauges. wonder if I could orient the sheid different tho... hmmm...

 

You know what's really cool? The voltages you were seeing at cruising speed on the highway is exactly what my little analog gauge on the 550 Seca says.

As for mounting; how about get a spare ignition switch surround plastic piece and mount it to that; it's what I did with my clock:




I used a double layer of double-sided automotive weatherstipping mounting tape. It's NOT moving.

 

I put thick velcro on the back of mine, and velcro'ed it on the plastic key switch dash area.

I think mine is now dead... it never got wet either. I would not consider it water proof, I ended up making a plastic shield for it that made a U shape with the open end facing me... that worked.

It will not measure windchill either, only ambient air temperature.

My recommendation for someone looking for a voltometer is the nice datel ones... they can be flush mounted onto anything plastic... perhaps even the dash.

 

This might be interesting for ideas...

http://fjr1300.info/howto/datel.html

one could make a home brew riser right off of those bolts that hold the bars

 

If I had any way of doing that, it'd probably be done by now

Wish I knew where to start, and had the time/tools to do it.

 

hmmmm Man I would like one of these to tinker with. I wonder how high the temp readings go up to. Could I mount a probe to or in the coolant system and keep an eye on my coolant temp?? Do a before and after voltage drop with standard and LED signal setups? Not to mention I would like to have a clock visible while cruising. Too many thoughts for the hour in the Eve.

 

It said on the box I can't remember - but not high enough for coolant

I can use EVERY part of the thing really... I beg to differ on the wind chill setup 'not working' as I have used something very similar on an old bike, and it worked like a charm.

I use: Clock for time. Damn skippy.
Coundown timer (to the 100ths) for 0-60 times etc
Both temp zones.
Voltage monitor, obviously. Freakin coooool. Especially when running lights like mine.
Freezing temp alert/black ice alert. Two temp warnings LED and or sound.
Will alert when temp is approaching freezing AND black ice temp meaning not quite freezing but close enough to cause black ice.



So one thing I was thinking of - is 14.8v REALLY good to have? Or is that too high? I can't see higher voltage being put out by the alternator being a bad thing, I wouldn't think anything 'breaking' or wearing out could cause HIGHER voltage, could it?
And on the topic of that... I know my lights draw about .2v while cruising. But is it drawing too much amperage? Even though the voltage is up, could the amperage be draining?

 

Ummm....no they don't! Your lights draw at least 12 volts.

Which "lights" are you talking about? Headlights and dash lights and rear brake "running" light? If you are using the stock headlight, that's 35 watts, the indicator and illumination bulbs are about 3.4 watts each (think there's a total of 2 that are on all the time), so that's 6.8 watts, and the rear tail running light bulbs are 8 watts each (16 total), so we have 35 + 6.8 + 16 = 57.8 watts which we're gunna round up to 60 watts which is 5 amps in a 12V system, since W = A x V.

Of course, if you are using non-stock bulbs in any of your fixtures, you would have to add up their rated wattages.

Polock, who is an electrical genius by traade, may wish to comment further about the relationships between all these factors and guess at what the ".2v" figure that you are seeing actually means...........

 

wrong wording. I meant I see a .2v drop in voltage with my 'fog lights' on. I have dual 30 watt driving lights intended for automotive fog lights on both sides of my bucket.

so that .2 is from say 13.8 to 13.6v.

still ok for my system? been running fine for a week but I don't wanna blow my alternator or something.

 

30W x 2 = 60W on a 12V system means 5A. That's a bit for an alternator that only puts out about 19A max. Means that you might be running off the battery in a number of situations...........meaning your alternator will be working on recharging it more often than usual.

Your brushes may wear out sooner. Check them regularly.

 

RE: Wind chill

Wind chill is the apparent temperature on exposed skin. It is the product of air temperature and wind speed, meaning that at 60mph and at 0mph the perceived temperature is different. I can work in a t-shirt at 50F, but I can't ride down the highway that same day in a t-shirt. It also explains other such phrases as - "it's a cold wind"

The external thermometer on that meter will not know wind speed, or calculate wind chill... however, it will give you an accurate air temperature.

It definitely is nice to know what the temperature is... but even nicer to know that when you turn your heated grips on that you won't drain the battery. It's a pretty cool toy.

Heated grips btw are about 30watts (or less) and therefore draw 2-3 amps.

 

Understood, windchill is not an easy factor to establish especially using standard temp sensors.

All I know is I like to see the two different temps. The one 'out in the open' always runs lower as I ride, and stabilizes to match the main one behind my windscreen when I slow down.

I know it is not an accurate tool at all for 'wind chill' all I am stating is that it does offer a 'sense' of it.

 

windchill is calculated and can't be "read" with a thermometer.


FYI...


Tair = air temperature, V = wind (km/h):
WC = 13.12 + 0.6215 × Tair - 11.37 × V 0.16 + 0.3965 × Tair × V 0.16

 

Christ guys, chill out.

Pun intended.


All I am saying is the second sensor reads a LOWER temp when I am rolling. When someone asks me what temp it was outside when I am riding - I tell that that one, because I like to brag it's 20 degrees out an I am on a motorcycle.

Physics, weather stats, everything else aside. I know it's not a 'real wind chill' or anything, period. But I truly don't CARE about that stuff.

Two words, WIND + CHILL, and I get blasted with technicalities. THE SENSOR READS COLDER, WHEN I GET ON THE HIGHWAY. What-EVER that is, that's what I am calling windchill.


Yay! Now everyone take their panties out of a wad and help me design a mount for my 'non-wind-chill-arrific-amazingness'.

 

consider my panties un-twisted. lol

humidity can certainly have an affect the temp reading in the wind. if the temp bulb has moisture on it, it will evaporate faster in the wind than when standing still. when water evaporates, it cools the surface it's evaporating off of. much like the way sweat cools our skin.

as for the mount, i vote you fab something up off the handlebar mount.

 

Thank god, finally someone using their non-technical noggin.

Thanks Andy.

I definitely want to do a riser style mount... and ideas?

I am doing another sync and tune tomorrow. What are you up to?
Maybe we can try to figure something out for a riser... You're the electrical guru, I could use your help cleaning up my side-light wiring, and working on something for the new toy.