Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-shoot!

One of our Members on the road is in contact with me and we are trying to think of why his 1 & 2 Carbs have suddenly started acting Rich and "Sooting-Up" the 1 & 2 Plug.

Carbs recently done.
Tests for Air Leaks negative.
>>Fuel Consumption suddenly bad.
1 & 2 showing excessive DRY soot on Plugs

Proper Pilot Fuel Jets in Place
Orifices of Pilot Fuel Jets not altered
>>Air Jets in proper placement
Correct Jets for Bike confirmed.
Hitachi's on 700
Pilot Mix Jets on 1-2 side at Minimum (1.5 -2 Out)
3 - 4 >> 3 Turns or more.

Diaphragms OK
Pistons NOT Stuck / Binding

I'm going to recommend running a Hotter Plug until he gets to the bottom of this.

What are we overlooking?

 

Something got in the airbox and is pluggin up 1&2 holes?
Needles weren't shimmed on 1&2 by chance when they were done?

I know when i moved my needle up one position, i could have my mixture at 1 turn out and it ran rich as hell, at idle or at speed.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Almost 30 year old needles and seats starting to leak on carbs 1 and 2.

 

Carbs #1 and 2 flooding?

Head gasket?

 

+1 on both of the above; my best guess would be something got into the needles/seats on #1 and #2 so they're both suddenly dumping fuel, or at least the float valves aren't shutting off fully.

 

did he run it really low on fuel and some tank boogers came down the fuel line while it was on its sidestand?

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

By sooting-up do you mean that there is black carbon like matierial building up in the spark plug electrode? If this is the case it sounds like oil fouling to me. Now being that its on two cylinders next to each other and not on just one leads me away from thinking its bad valve seals. I would pull out the yics plug on the left side by one and two and see if there is oil in there.

 

I had mentioned the possibility of Oil causing the soot.
Especially, if he has 1 & 2 nearly closed-off Pilot Mix wise.
But, the kicker is that he's got bad Fuel Economy.

Gene swears that the Pilot FUEL Jets aren't altered.
He also says there's NO chance the AIR Jets are reversed.

>> He has a NON-Vacuum Operated Petcock.
The Petcock might have something to do with it.
Although, ... he was running good ... then, suddenly started with the 1/2 Holes being too Rich (or, ... being too Lean and burning Oil as Fuel.)
BUT, if he WAS too Lean on the 1/2 Holes ... what explains the Low Mileage figures he getting.

Last time I talked to him, ... they were shooting for arriving at Mount Rushmore, today.

 

Our Member making this Cross Country Ride is: mestnii

Gene Grinshteyn Cell Ph.# - (216) 632-0127 {Published w/ permission}
Next stop:
Tabernash Colorado

Thursday:
Alton, Utah

Gene would like to here from any Member willing to assist him in straightening-out his situation --or-- willing to provide a work space and tools to get him un-bugged.

He's high in the Rockies right now. Obviously, running rich due to high altitude.

San Francisco or Bust.

Personal note:
I envy this guy. Just hearing about eating-up all that highway and the sights and sounds of crossing America was a thrill. I cant wait for the ride report and pix.
I have Carb "Parts" all over the place.
I'll FedEx what I got to help-out if we can keep his wheels rolling to Frisco.

 

Go Gene, GO!

 

If it was running fine, then developed this issue, I'm guessing head gasket. I don't think contaminated fuel would cause problems with only 2 cylinders. He needs a compression check. Carburetor settings don't usually change by themselves. A head gasket failure could give problems to just 2 cylinders. Unless there was a muffler collapse or obstruction on 1 side of a 4 into 2, but then you'd hear plenty about that issue.

MoralDK
1982 XJ750J

 

I know there are a couple members that are in CO.... I am sure someone is close and give him a hand. hate to see something bad happen to his bike because of this!

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Please keep us up to date Rick I'll be checking in as often as I can
Thanks,
James

 

I sent out an S-O-S

Vickery MotorSports

Greetings Vickery Service-- One of our five thousand five hundred Yamaha XJ-Series Bike Owners is attempting a Cross Country adventure enroute to San Francisco. On Wed Aug 26 he arrived at Tabernash CO - near you with an unknown problem causing him to Soot-up his No-1 and No-2 Carbs following a complete cleaning and tuning before he embarked for the Coast. If there is an opportunity for our member to have his problem diagnosed and his Bike adjusted to enable him to complete the journey... we would like to include you in the Article as coming to the rescue. Rick Massey http://xjbikes.com/ Moderator Members name attempting to cross America-- Gene Grinshteyn --Grin.sa.ten-- Gene is presently in Tabernash. Please visit the Yamaha XJ-Site and read about Genes adventure. XJBikescom - Forums - XJ Chat - Attention. Member On-the-Road. Carb Issue Troubleshoot. Genes Cell.. 216-632-0127 Tell them -- Rick Massey's on it. S-O-S

Vickery MotorSports Inc
2231 South Parker Road
Denver, CO 80321
Ph 303-755-4387

Mon: Closed
Tu - Fri: 9 - 6
Sat: 9 - 5

If these folks at Vicery check us out and lend a hand ... we should reward them somehow.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

I live about 2 hours south west of Tabernash in Minturn CO.

I have a lot of tools (compression tester, wrenches, sockets, etc) and a place to work. If he can l get here he can use my "stuff."

My cell # is 970 904 one six one zero.

Have him call me.

Jim

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

I'm with Big Fitz with the #1 & 2 float valves sticking, you gotta think that with the poor fuel consumption & the abundance of gas in those two jugs.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

I just spoke with Gene.

He is fixed for now and is taking a tour around the metropolis of Tabernash.

He said he will call me if he thinks I can help.

For now all is well.

Jim

 

As far as I know, Gene arrived in Colorado.
I haven't heard from him today.

At least there's resources out there and member's like minturn to step-up and help-out inn a pinch.

I think Gene will read the Posts ...
If I don't hear from him, soon ... I'll call for an update.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Gene called me. We spoke for about 20 minutes. What a nice guy.

He is at a friends place in Tabernash, a town of about 150 people. His bike is still running a little rich. Says he can smell gas and sees black smoke.

He rode through a freezing rain storm on Berthoud Pass (11307 feet), but I don't want to steal his thunder for his ride report.

He plans on heading through Utah or as far as west as he can get tomorrow. It will be MUCH warmer there.

I won't be much help, except for moral support, once he gets past Grand Junction, Colorado.

That's it from Colorado.
Jim

 

minturn, that is awesome for stepping up!

Rick, I love the SOS you have sent out! well done!

 

if the floats are leaking from some junk in the needle sometimes it helps to put it on prime and open up the drain screws to flush it out, if he has a clear hose, smack the float bowls a few times and turn his clear hose up to see what the level is

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Concise & pragmatic as always, Polock.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

He might of had a jet fall off into the bowl. Making it rich on those two cylinders via the yics passage. Not likely but it can hapen.

 

I'm totally green with envy over Gene doing an Iron-Butt X-Country Ride and telling me a little bit about what it looked like approaching the Rockie Mountains.
Damn.
That's riding.
I get a modified Mountain rush every now and then. But, it's small-spuds compared to the Continental Divide. Actually, ... going uphill. Not just up a grade. Although, It gets interesting up in New Hampshire where the road winds through a huge notch of solid granite.

Thanks for the props on the SOS.
I was looking for someplace where Gene might have found a guy willing to wave a Magic Wand for 15-Minutes of fame and 55-hundred of his new best friends.

It's all about Gene getting to San Francisco.
Ride on Gene.
San Francisco 800
San Francisco 250
San Francisco - City Limits
Welcome to San Francisco!

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

So glad to hear its running better for Gene, nice work on the S.O.S Rick. And way to step up minturn its so cool how folks on this site are old school in there willingness to help others. You just don't seem to see that as much anymore.

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

What was the verdict on the bike running bad?

 

No news is good news, ... I guess.
Last I heard he was in Colorado.

I figure ...
If it was a Head Gasket goin' ... Headin' into the Rockies would kill it.
He kept going.
I went over the list and looked it all-over ...
I figure it's the NON-Vacuum Operated Petcock
When he gets gas ... the Floats can't handle holding back a whole tank of gas.

Can you jockey a Non-Vac Petcock to slow the flow?

 

pinch the fuel line?

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

If its a non-vac. petcock it should have res.-on-off if this is correct maybe Gene can remove the fuel line from the carb and turn the petcock from off towards on until fuel starts comming out the line. Like half way from on to off. He may then have to turn the petcock all the way to on after say half a tank of so.

 

That's along the lines of how I would deal with it, ... if it is that Petcock.

I think there are others who made that Mod without a performance issue.
You just have to remember to turn it off.

 

WOWZERS guys i am completely impressed with the rally to a FRIEND in need. kinda reminds me o the marine corp. when a buddy is in need u will crawl through hell to help himout. U GUYS ROCK and the advice dispensed was timely(although when u broke down time stans still and patience is in short supply) thorough and reflected the in depth thought processes of a WORLD of impeccable guys reachin their own hands out to help. KUDOS,APPLAUSE AND THANKS are simply not enough but it is all i can offer at the moment. Rock on Gene,keep the wheels spinnin and good luck for the rest o the trip. San Francisco is a great place to visit just dont leave your HEART there...hahahaha

 

anyone got an update on Gene?

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Wow! is all I can say! Thank you everyone for the support.

Big thanks to Rick for talking me through some basic trouble shooting steps and a big thanks to minturn (Jim) for calling me up and offering a helping hand.

Here is a quick recap on what happened. I made my way from Cleveland, OH to Chicago, IL and then out to Iowa. I was getting mileage in the high 30's, and once even 43! As soon as I made it past Cedar City, IA the bike started coughing out black smoke from the left exhaust and my fuel light would turn on at 50 - 60 miles after each fuel up. I got a chance to take everything apart somewhere close to Waterloo, IA and everything checked out fine.

Once I made it past Denver, CO my gas mileage suddenly increased to 35, and all 4 plugs were running rich. I attributed this to the altitude as I was just about to start climbing Berthoud pass. I figured I rode the gremlins out of her and pressed on. (This is the night Jim and I talked). Next morning, I headed west to Utah and as I steadily decreased in altitude, so did my gas mileage. I rode all through Utah averaging 26-29 mpg (and had a near heart attack when I saw that the next gas station was over 100 miles away and I was already 30 miles in. I barely made it using the extra gas can I had).

Now, this is where it gets strange again. 180-220 miles outside of Las Vegas, my fuel economy jumps back up to 36-39. I have been racking my head over it and believe that it may be stuck float valves dumping in extra fuel. I have read over all of the other advice on this post and have been able to rule everything else out (except maybe the 30 year old needles and seats leaking). I arrived in Las Vegas this morning at 5 am (met a biker on the CO and UT border who said the best time to cross was at night to avoid the heat. Seeing as it was 90 degrees at 7 pm, I took his advice). I will be in the Henderson, Vegas area until Monday morning and will look over the bike tomorrow as today I just want to rest. I also noticed that the on-off fuel valve I have started to leak around the seal holding it to the gas tank. This is a question to Chacal, and anyone else who may know, what is the name of the sealant that is applied to the valve, the gasket and the gas tank to create a good bond? A small tube of it was provided when I bought the part from Chacal, but I no longer have any left.

Sorry for the long post or if something does not make any sense. I am a bit loopy from the ride and am trying to sort out my thoughts.

I'm also attaching a teaser picture. This is after I talked to Rick on Wednesday and did the climb up and through Berthoud pass. Before I got off the phone with Rick, he said he envied me. This picture was taken right after I rode through a freezing rain shower on the highest part of the pass (11,000 ft or so). All I could think of was how I envied Rick as he was sitting at home, nice and dry.

 

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET,thanks for the update Gene. cant wait to preview the tour photos

 

Hey Gene, the gasket-maker material is called HYLOMAR, but just about any brand of fuel-resistant gasket maker should work as well (I think Permatex has a similar product that can more easily be found in retail stores such as O'Reilly, Autzone, etc.)


That stretch of Interstate 70 in western Utah (coming out of CO) is some of the most scenic travel in the US.........the landscape is something other-wordly, and it's easy to understand how some people would choose that area for where a "staged' moon-landing would have occurred!

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Update: Played with the bike today. Fixed the leaking fuel valve gasket and tore apart the carbs. When I took the carbs off, I saw that fuel had been slowly leaking into the #1 cylinder. Floats probably not closing or that one was set too high. Just in case, I dropped the float height by 1 - 1.5mm. Put everything back together, went to start it up and it needed WOT to even run. I think the engine got flooded with fuel. I kept the throttle open and after 40 seconds or so it started to act normally. I rode it around the parking lot and the engine was making all sorts of awful noises I never heard before. Pulled her in, and as she was in synch when I left all I did was colortune (let me tell you, colortuning at noon in Vegas is extremely unpleasant as it was over 100 degrees).

Idle screws on #1 and #2 are set at roughly 3/4 (three quarters) of a turn out and I get nice consistent blue flame. Idle screw on #3 is about 3 turns out, but was a bit rich, so I turned it in to 2.5 or so and got a nice consistent blue flame. #4 screw is set at 2.5 or so and I also get consistent blue flame. The idle sits perfectly at 1000.

Started her up again and rode her around. Engine noises disappeared and she is running quite nice except that when I give it a lot of throttle when taking off from a stop, there is a slight stumble until it hits about 2k rpm. I think #3 carb is still a bit rich and it causing the stumble. At this point in time, I can not mess with it any more. I got it into a condition to make it to Lake Tahoe tomorrow, and San Francisco the day after. Have not yet had a chance to test gas mileage. Hopefully setting the float a bit lower on #1 will help as there was no more black smoke when I test rode it.

Only time will tell.

Until I get internet again, thank you all for the help.

 

Gene:

Pingle makes a Vacuum Operated - Inline - Fuel Shut-off.

Only problem: Costs more than a Brand New Petcock!

http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo_9050.htm

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

quick update: made it to San Fran last night! Rode out here averaging 35 mpg through the Sierra's and then 43-45 (!!!) once at lower elevation.

Once I get a place to stay and internet I'll start posting up the trip report!

Thank you for the support!

 

Awesome Brother Gene congratulations on a safe arrival!!

 

Hey, Gene, when you headin back? wanna swing up to portland to get a card and camera?

 

Re: Attention! Member "On-the-Road" Carb Issue Trouble-sho

Happy to see you made it to San Fran I can't wait to read the write up of your trip good luck-
James

 

helmet - I moved here. I'll be living in the area for the next year and then the plan is to head off to grad school.

 

very cool! I figured you were taking the vacation that most of us can only dream about!