Pod instead of breather hose on 1980 650 Maxim

I bought a 1980 650 Maxim a couple of days ago. The guy had said he couldn't get it running and the battery was dead. I brought a battery with me and got it running. It ran very well, in fact, and the transmission seemed good as did acceleration, especially for a cold bike. I took about a mile down the road and back. It even idled! Neutral is pretty tough to find, though.

When I got back I realized that my left boot and pant leg were covered with fuel and oil. For some reason the breather hose that connects from the left rear crankcase/shifter cover had been replaced with some kind of a little pod. That seems to be where most or all of the fuel and oil was coming from. Any idea why someone would do this?

 

well if it still has the factory airbox on it, then you can just put a hose back onto it and run it back to the airbox the way it was deisgned. I'm not sure why someone would do this, if they didnt install pod filters on the carbs. But I also dont beleive it should be blowing "that much" out of the little pod thought either.

 

That Vent is the Crankcase vent.
A Hose, from the Outlet that the Filter is fitted too, to a Receiving Inlet underneath the Airbox, is missing.

You can easily fabricate a well-fitting substitute with Hardware Store-bough Hose and a pair of Right Angle Hose Couplings.

A great deal of Oil, Fuel and Condensation is NOT supposed to blown from the Crankcase, there.
The Crankcase might be OVERFILLED with Oil.
The Crankcase might be contaminated with FUEL, ... overflowing from the Carbs.

Open the Oil Filler cap. Smell for FUEL.
Observe the Level of the Crankcase through the Sight Glass.

If you smell fuel; drain the Crankcase.
Change the Oil and Filter.
Install a LEAK-PROOF Valve after the Petcock.
Shut-OFF the Fuel Supply when the Engine is Stopped.

You need to TEST the Petcock for Leaks.
Test the Carb Float Heights with the Clear Tube Method.
Adjust LEVELS or replace Floats Valves and Seats with KITS if found to be leaking.

Briggs and Stratton Valve <<<>>> Installed after Petcock

 

Why a PO does anything is beyond comprehension.

If the bike still has the stock airbox, by all means replace the hose with the correct one and vent thru the airbox as designed.

Rick is right though; and considering you have no idea of the history of the bike (take everything PO said with a grain o' salt) I would definitely check the crankcase for evidence of gas pollution before riding it.

The "hard to find neutral" is probably because the clutch is dragging, not uncommon especially if it's been sitting.

Looks to be in decent shape, just in need of a lot of TLC (and of course the "regular" stuff.) Good find.

 

Thanks for your replies, guys. The bike was $300. I was ready to pay $200 for it not running if the compression was decent. Better to be able to start it and ride, though, by far. I didn't realize that it had a non-YICS motor until I saw it.

The PO said that a friend of his put four carb kits in it last summer and charged him $450 for the parts which I can't quite get my head around. The manifolds look to be in good shape but don't really look new. Who knows... If the guy put new floats in without setting them up properly, maybe that would explain it. He did say that he thought the petcock was not working properly.

It's hard to know how much I'll be able to do before the glacier moves in. I'll definitely investigate the oil situation and refill. If I am not able to run the thing again before winter and I do find gas in the oil, do I need to be concerned about fuel having thinned it out enough that the inside of the engine might not be adequately coated to sit for 5+ months?

Maybe I should do the petcock, too, so I can refill the tank with treated fuel for the winter. Rick's 2nd fuel valve idea would certainly be a faster option since it doesn't appear to be leaking any fuel around the valve. The carbs I'll bring in and work on inside. I can see that the throttle shaft seals are leaking, so that definitely needs to be done...

...as does lots of other stuff, but the rest will probably have to wait until spring. Thanks again!

 

CHANGE the oil. Right away. The bike uses the same oil filter as your 550.
Don't store it with whatever the heck is in the crankcase right now; especially since it runs. Change the oil, and then disconnect the fuel line and drain the carbs (if you can get the screws open) before you even pull it apart. That way no matter what the condition of the petcock, it can't fill itself with gas again.

When you pull the carbs off, stuff a wadded up paper shop towel in each intake mainfold and rubber-band a baggie over each one.

Fog the cylinders first or oil them down with a tablespoon of motor oil each.

Be sure to plug the exhaust pipes too after it's all done.

Nothing wrong with a non-YICS XJ, the 650 Secas were not YICS bikes either, here in the USA.

My 650 at time of purchase:



It sorta runs but absolutely PUKES gas all over itself, I think all 4 floats must be gunked solid, so it also floods itself out after about 30 seconds. Guess what I get to do next?

Plus, the front brake lever comes to the bar, the master cylinder is TOAST (it's just out of the pic) there's road rash on the left muffler, you can't see the black tape on the seat BUT it's all there and somehow the "Seca 650" emblems are perfect.

 

What's the oil capacity? I don't have a manual yet. On that topic, has anyone ordered the CDs that are offered on eBay that include service and owner's manuals plus supplements?

And then turn it over a few times?

Nice to see the pic of your bike. There is no paint at all on the valve cover on my and I was wondering if it might have been black originally. Looks like it must have been. Thanks, Fitz.

 

You really don't know what you got 'til you get-in there and have a look at them Carbs.

I've seen Carbs the PO claimed came-off a running bike that were proof-positive he was lying.
You may want to invest in Kits for your Carbs if you get-in there and find-out you was fibbed-to.
Happens all the time.

Fighting to get the bike in Neutral needs to be addressed before you get frustrated and start hammering on the Shift Lever and messing things up.
Read the Clutch Adjusting section of the Link in my signature section.

Basically, what it amounts too, ... is you getting the Clutch Cable adjusted so well that when you --> Move the Clutch Lever --> the Cable is tight and the Throw-out Lever moves ... TOO.

Run your Cable so you get the most throw-out as possible.
You can get the fight out of finding Neutral.
But, it hops into Gear like flopping the Tailgate down on the chains of a tough old pickup.

 

The good thing is that I shouldn't be in much of a hurry on this one. I can get them apart and then order what I need and take my time.

I've referred to that a number of times already! I'm glad to hear that something that simple might fix this.

Thanks, Rick!

 

I have seen something similar to this on a bike I was robbing for parts at an auto salvage yard once. They had the crankcase breather vented with a hose, and on the end was the old style yellow fuel filters ment for riding lawnmowers. The hose with filter on the end, came out next to the carb bowl overflow tubes in front of the rear tire. Seemed very odd to me at the time. But your post made me remember it.

 

It's cast into the clutch cover right behind the filler cap; 2500cc IIRC.

"Fog the cylinders first or oil them down with a tablespoon of motor oil each..."

Yep. Just want to be sure the walls are coated. Remember to unplug TCI for any non-sparking motor spinning.

As for manuals, I prefer paper; I bought the Haynes right away when I got the bike then took my time finding a decent deal on a factory book.

The eBay seller is flagrantly violating copyright law; same debate we've had on the site over the XJ CD. The choice is yours... http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27817.html

 

the 81 and 82 models held 3.4 quarts with filter. 3 quarts without filter change. you should also have sight glass on right side of engine right below the oil filler cap. or a diptstick if the 1980 model didn't come with a glass.

 

Vedalkin: A filter from a riding lawnmower? Was there any evidence that he had a cutting head mounted on the bike at one point? Now there you'd have something...

Oil capacity: On the 550 the number on the clutch cover - 2200cc - translates to 2.3 qts, which is what's specified if you don't change the filter. A new filter adds .3 qts to the equation.

So, 2500cc is about 2.7 qts, and if the filter is the same as on the 550, then that would make it 3 qts with a filter change.

Snowwy, did the 81/82 models actually hold more oil or use a different filter or what?

Thanks, guys.

 

The G model (1980) was the basis for the subsequent models (81~83). They used exactly the same filter and had the same sump volume. No difference (my 81 lives on with the engine out of an 80).
You will notice, should you have the factory manual, that the basic manual is the G model with the respective model updates in a supplement attached behind the basic manual. This includes the normally aspirated Seca's, however I'm not sure about the cobbled-together LH (turbo).

 

Thanks, Robert. I just ordered a manual on eBay so I'll make a note of that.

 

Well, there was definitely gas in the crankcase. I drained about a gallon out so, if the oil was at capacity to begin with, there was about a quart of gas in there. I'm sure glad I only rode it a mile or less. Impossible to know how much it had been ridden before the PO discovered that.

I've never worked on Hitachi carbs before so I was surprised to see that the vacuum line to the petcock was connected to the #2 manifold tube. Is that correct or was it another creative "modification" by a PO?

Also enjoyable was trying to drain the bowls with the #2 & #4 bowls reversed so that drain screws were aimed inward. Nice. Plus, is the fuel supposed to drain out of the little nipple on the back of the bowls? It didn't.

 

Any Manifold Port will supply Vacuum for the Petcock.
The hose is usually on 3.

If you put it on 2 with longer hoses for BOTH Vac & Fuel ... You can maneuver the Tank to get to the Sync Screws and Pilot Screws without removing the lines.

When you Undo the Carb Drain Screws ... Fuel should flow from the Bowl Nipple.
That blockage will need to be unclogged before you can do Float Heights using the Clear Tube method.

Position the Fuel Bowls with the Screws :Outboard.

1<<< -- 2<<< [o] >>>3 -- >>>4

 

Gee, my '83 came that way, with transposed float bowls. Immediately calls into question the "expertise" of whoever it was supposedly 'did' the carbs.

Aren't these the carbs that allegedly just had $450 spent on them?

Impressive.

As for vacuum line placement, generally speaking the 550s used the #2 port and the bigger bikes the #3 port for the petcock vacuum line. Why, I'm not exactly sure.

 

That would be handy.

As I figured. I noticed that some of the needle tips on those drain screws are fairly worn. I was thinking of using the old drill and emery cloth trick to smooth them out but it probably doesn't really matter much as long as they don't leak, right?

Thanks, Rick.

 

Everybody makes mistakes. Putting the bowls on the wrong carbs is a small one. Carbs that dump fuel continuously is a big one, but possibly the last one a guy will make on any particular cycle

That's interesting because the line on my 550 was connected to #3. I thought that made some sense because of the fact that the sync on #3 is non-adjustable. On the other hand, I would assume that the precise amount of vacuum pressure is not too critical for petcock operation, is it? I mean, unless a cylinder was totally fried it would produce more than enough vacuum to operate the petcock, wouldn't it?

 

The 1980 XJ (Maxim-I only) did not have painted valve covers and didn't use the donut seals. The black was the scheme on the SECA which didn't start until 1981, (on the Non-YICS)

 

Sure; and from what I can tell it really doesn't matter on the earlier bikes.

HOWEVER I also know that on later bikes like the XJ600s that the #2 carb is jetted slightly differently; I always assumed it had to do with that carb operating the fuel system.

 

It's all Vacuum.
Placement doesn't really matter.

Testing the Vacuum Operation of the Petcock requires "Takin'-a-drag" on the Vacuum Line with the Hose placed to your lips.
Not much at all.

 

You know, I guess that makes sense now that I look at it again. The cover is so completely free of paint that I thought it might have been power washed or stripped, perhaps.

That is not to say that I might not paint, though... Thanks.

 

WinstonC is correct (except the Seca was an '82MY only bike in the US) your 1980 would have had a "naked" valve cover.

If it were me, I'd boil it in lemon juice and then highly polish the raised features.

 

I like the brake bleeder tool. the little hand operated vacuum pump deal. Keeps the petroleum in my diet to a minimum.

 

If you get petroleum sucking on the petcock vacuum port, it's another diagnostic aid. The vacuum side shouldn't HAVE any gas present. The Mity-Vac has no taste buds.

 

Just don't inhale.

 

I got the carbs apart last night and the #4 float height is pretty dramatically different from the other three. That could explain why the crank case had fuel in it. I've only worked on the Mikuni carbs on my 550 previously, so I've got a few other questions about these Hitachis. I think I'll start another thread for that, though, which I'll post in a few minutes.