Bike wont start and it s breaking my heart

Hi everyone I'm Jonny maritime and it is truly awsome to have discovered this site and its purpose. I have discovered that practically all aspects of the xj s are covered , lots of helpful info and seem to be a fine tuned site. Im glad to be here and hope to learn and share alot .

The history of my Xj and its problems.
I have purchaced a 1983 maxim 650 , from a girlfriend of a friends mom. Allot could be said about that... for now I would like to mention that the bike is in great over all shape. However, It will not turn over. I bought a new battery, removed, and cleaned the Carbs, and put in new gas , it sounds like it wants to start, but doesn't fire (she did mention it was back firing before she decided to sell it, 2 yrs ago, ) she hasn't ridden it in over a yr. as well( i paid 400$ for it )

* engine wont fire( I think its a fuel issue)

*headlamp wont come one(may have to turn over first?right)

*blinker comes on but doesn't flash( i'm guessing its a relay?)

* speedometer needle is broken off...(i purchased a new cluster from ebay)

*front brakes were seized up( I removed the caliper and took off the pads, will bleed the brakes, if they jam up again, ill rebuild the master cylinder, and caliper assembly)

Her reciept from 2005 included new tires, rear brake pads, new plugs, rebuilt carbs, new front pads, inline fuel filter, new gasket. and a few other things .

Thanks in advance for any tips, and suggestions about getting it road ready. Really looking forward to my first riding season.

Best regards
Jonny

 

Hi Jonny

I've just been through all those things you are now experiencing!

Bought a very unloved '83 XJ750 Maxim last fall & it now purrs & all the electrics function just fine.

Where are you in Montreal? I'm on the West Island.

PM me

Oldgoat

 

Jonny,

Give a shot of starter fluid in the air box.
Try and start her up.

If she starts and then dies you have a fuel issue
If nothing happens then you have an ignition issue.

We will goe from there, just give us a report!!

BTW, how clean did you ge those carbs...good enough OR good enough to eat off of..!?

 

PS are you cranking with a full charged battery?
Sorry for that question but sometimes you never know...

 

Replace the fuse box... just to eliminate that possible weak link:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=6350.html

 

Tanks for your quick replys! Ill definatly try the starter in the air box....would a little gas work ..its the fumes I want right? as for the carbs.. well they were Uber clean..
After removing disassembling cleaning and reassembling my bike inline4 carburetor - I placed it in Harley bag within a garbage bag. I then put it in the corner in the kitchen . Amy( my GF approached me about 30 min later . She asked me what was in the bag...as the sent of fresh shrimp filled the air the nervousness in her voice I had figured she made an error. I opened the bag and found most of the shrimp carcasses directly on my rebuilt carb body. And the shrimperator was born . The end. I then cleaned it again and 3 hrs later I was clean enough to eat off of again ... not shrimp though , I hate F%#n shrimp.. one for the books .

The battery Was just baught and freshly charged. Should I boost it any way? Would it being on its center stand have anything to do with it? is there an anti starting device for this year?
Ill Keep you posted ...

 

The purpose of starter spray is to isolate weathjer it will start w/ said spray in carbs.
That spray is super easy to start, I could rub my hands together w/ it and *poof* flame ON.
What I am saying if it starts w/ the fluid you know the ignition is working.
If it does not then fuel is not the issue, but ignition is.
Dont put gas vapor in there, thats pretty much what starter fluid is.
I dont know what would happen though, but for diagnosis reasons just use the spray!!!

Thats good that you have a Harley and Trash bag together
Ones cheaper than the other yet they do the SAME job!

Being on the center stand will not affect the start procedure, make sure your in neutral though.

Keep the battery full chaged for accurate diagnosic reasons.
Dont want it to be a weak battery causing all this trouble.

After all this, just make sure that everything is in optimal condition so that the faults can be ruled out.

Ever seen pulp fiction?
Mr Wolf says "Is there anything I need to know about this car? Anything"

 

Thanks for the tips. hope I don't blow up my bike and burn my friends condo to the ground... how much do I put in .. like a can or two? ....... i'm keeeding. I assume I just remove the seat, Air box , spray a bit into the box 2 seconds, close box, attempt to fire.

 

Just being a smartass here, but I thought the title of this thread would make a great name for a country song... Maybe if you play the song backwards, the bike would start?

 

Just a little bit of Starter Fluid.
See if it will fire on an external source of fuel. If it DOES ... you have some Carb~Fuel Supply issue to find and correct.

My experience with those who have done their own Carbs has taught me that many People neglest to Clean the Starter Jet related portions of the Carbs.

The Starter Jet comprises the Siphon Tube and the Well in the Fuel Bowl that the Siphon Tube extends down into.
ALL the Jets and Metering Poets need to be free and clean.
If the Bike isn't getting any Top-end Fuel to assist in the Cold Start ... an XJ-Bike is very stubborn to start.

Try seeing if she'll Pop for you with some Starter Fluid.
If it does ... you need to get after the Fuel Delivery system and revisit the Cleaning process and do a complete and thorough job.

 

Well tonight I shot some starter fluid in the air box , and it fired for a second. and the headlamp came on. So now I know its not a starter or electrical prob.

I watched an air bubble in the gas line from the petcock to the inline fuel filter pass by it as the engine sort of fired ,go down past the filter and then back to the top , as if there is no vacume . Anywho My guess is its a carb problem.

I got some plug and wire cleaner / contact liquid. Ill run a voltometer on all the ignition components and clean all electrical contacts in a couple of days .

Is there some way I could have flooded the carb? Can I keep cranking the throttle ? Wish I was part motor cycle so I could understand it .. Its like having a relationship with a woman . But I am having a great time, and love it . Im tired , The End .

 

RickCoMatic I should have read your reply, before writing mine . So Im tired ... thanks RickCoMatic , ill tackle that carb again .....again.

 

Is it possible that a clogged oil filter, or just nasty black oil could have an effect on starting up the max ?

 

The nasty black oil is a clue.
Get a compression test done to see if you have low pressure on any of those holes that would contribute to blow-by.

If you have below specs compression, the bike can't get the mixture compressed sufficiently to ignite like it is supposed to.

That your oil is nasty and black means that either it has not been changed in a good while or the cylinders were letting the gases that were supposed to be exhausted-out the tailpipes blow past the rings and contaminate the oil in the sump.

The only way you are going to know for sure is to have a Compression Test done at Wide Open Throttles and see what the readings are across the board on those four Cylinders.

 

is there a "best oil" for this bike , I was going to add some 10w30 SAE gold whatever Canadian tire brand.

 

I would say some 20w50 motorcycle oil.
Without any "friction modifiers"
Long story short use M/C oil and your cluch with thank you later on.
Keep up the good work and get that oil filter changed soon too.

*Edit* Might want to get some thinner oil in the climate your in, but you would still be alright once it warms up a bit

 

I have the filter but the bloody bolt is STUCK..
thanks for the advice

 

I've been reading about oil lately and am convinced that there is no benefit to "Motorcycle" oil other than being sure you don't have friction modifiers. I am convinced that synthetic is a better choice than conventional oils.

In the states you can get Rotella T 5W40 for about the same price as "Motorcycle" oil.

 

I would love to run synthetic, but am unsure how to do a proper flush. I know contaminating the synthetic with conventional oil is bad news... anyway my manual says 10w30 or 5w 30 depending on the temperature I ride in ..im thinking 5w30 is best here ..and it also states nothing about frition modifiers . So no to cut the confusion, the expensive brands (Formula 1, Castrol... )state on the bottle that they have friction modifiers... so ill stay away from those .

 

Which XJ? There wasn't 5w30 when these came out. My understanding is that all the 5w30 oils have friction modifiers.

If I recall correctly my manual calls for 10w30 for low temperature operation and 20w40 for high temp.

I haven't heard any issues with not doing a flush going from synthetic to dino oil or vice versa. Regular Shell Rotella T is 15w40 and would also be a good choice if you don't want to go synthetic.

I'm thinking I'll probably use the standard Rotella T and just change it every 1000 miles (1600 km).

 

Micarl... you are 100% right SAE 20w40 "SE"
SAE 10w30 type SE

My bad
...thats what I dont understand I thought SAE was SE..?
S= Gas engine
E= grade .SF is better , SG etc

 

The SE is the API (American Petroleum Institute) rating for the additives. SE is a rating from the 80s which I believe was superseded by SF. They aren't necessarily backward compatible.

You will not find an SE rated oil. The one I've been running is a 10w40 which has the SF rating. After the article I read I'm convinced 10w40 is a mistake. As I understand it the 10w40 is a 10 weight oil with an additive of long molecules that gives it the 40 viscosity at high temperature. Problem is the gears in the transmission chop those additive molecules up, lowering the viscosity.

Since a 20w40 oil is based on a 20 weight petroleum it's viscosity hold up better.

In other words, the 10w40 oil I've been using is really no better than 10w30 (which I can't find anymore) which is for cold weather applications. A modern substitute for the 20w40 SE would be a 20w50.

The synthetics come by their viscosities "naturally" so there aren't the long molecules to be broken up by the transmission.

The Rotella lubricants are made for diesel engines. High levels of detergents to keep contaminants (the black stuff in your oil) suspended longer. Also formulated for high temperature and high pressure applications (air cooled motorcycle anyone?). Finally, no friction modifiers to mess up the clutch.

Here's the article: LINK

 

That's the reason I use 20~50 Exclusively.

Everything that needs lube ... gets lubed and stays lubed!

No viscosity breakdown.
Peace of mind.
No matter how fast I'm going or how warm it is!

The good stuff.
Racing oil.
Undeniably the best thing for the high-revving motorcycle engine.
At least in my personal opinion.
And Pit Crew Chiefs around the World.

 

In the tests referred to in the article the motorcycle oils and car oils broke down at about the same rate. Pretty much shot at 800 miles.

The Castrol GTX 20w50 held up well at 800 miles.

The Mobil 1 synthetic was still pretty much brand new.

 

I was surprised to find-out that Mobil-1 is THE recommended lubricant that Chevy insists you use in the 60 Degree V-6's like the one that's in the Monte Carlo I recently bought used.

As a matter of fact, Mobil-1 5W-30 is lettered right on the Oil Fill Cap.
Not only does Mobil-1 offer superior protection to this Chevy V-6, it also retains its lubricating qualities much longer than non-synthetic.

Chevy says NOT to change the Mobil-1 as frequently as a non-synthetic.
They let the Engine determine when the Oil needs changing by using an Oil Life Monitoring System which you reset after changing the Oil.

In some cases, where there are NO extreme conditions met, the Oil Life will exceed 7,500 Miles or more before the Monitoring System recommends its changing.

The Owners Manual states that if the Oil Life Monitor does not indicate that its time to change the Oil after a year; you should do it anyway!

I'm using Mobil-1 10-30 for Winter.
I'll use the Mobil-1 5-30 when the good weather rolls-around, again.

I'll be staying ahead of the Oil Life Monitoring System; too!
I want this slick V-6 to give me 100,000 Miles or more!

 

I use 20w 50

 

In order to get an engine to run you need three things. Compression, Spark, and fuel. My best guess from the information given is fuel. Lack of air might also be the case, but fuel is my best guess.

Compression guages aren't horribly expensive and are useful from time to time if you're always wrenching something. Rickomatic suggested checking the compression, I second this. If the compressions fine, nothing hurt.

If you put in a proper spritzing of starting fluid and all you got was a POP, that shouldn't be. It should crank a few times, then sputter and die (assuming theres no fuel)

I'm sorry, but I have to ask, I catch myself doing this often- is your petcock on or off? Check and make sure the valve isn't closed.

Check the throttle cable and how it interacts with the butterfly valve... Is it operating properly? It might've just given you a pop because there was insufficient air.

When you tried to start it with the starting fluid, were you opening the throttle or no?

 

Yes the petcock was on "ON", Throttle operates fine , Bfly valves open and close , choke open. When i tried starting it I do open the throttle .

Im going to try putting some new oil in today, Clean the plugs with starter fluid, and put a bit of plug /wire lube on each. I smelled the exaust and does not smell fumey ....So I ll see what happens, if this doesnt work Then the Carburetor is coming off and getting another cleaning with a full disassembly Rickohmatics way.

 

These bikes don't like to start if you twist the throttle.
Idle only, or just crack it open 1 turn of the idle set knob under the carbs.

And as for "choke", look at the forks, and just barely lift them up - - don't choke all the way, spray again. . .

Try that. . .

 

I will definetly try that'..seeing as its the opposite of what ive been doing . thanks

 

One more suggestion...Whats your air/fuel mixture? Lean/rich?

Let us know how it goes.

 

If you have a vacuum operated petcock & you have recently cleaned the cars then "maybe" you don't have enough gas in the carbs to run.

You can't turn the engine over enough to generate a vacuum long enough to fill the carbs.

If you have a "Prime" position for the petcock, set it on that, as the gas flows without a vacuum & will fill the carbs. Just watch out for overflowing due to stuck needle valves.

 

Well today , I removed the spark plugs and cleaned them up.
Plug #1 was Black and gritty and dry

#2 was wet and black

#3 had gas on it
#4 was BLack as #1

Sooo I put some fine sand paper to the contacts, sprayed em off them with starter fluid. and now they are cleaner . Then I added some 4stroke motorcycle oil 20w50 , 1.8 L . Then I tried cranking it with some starter fluid in the air box and choke barley on , and it popped , then the second time it did nothing because my battery is losing its charge.. ( loses its charge fast eh..?)I would imagine a boost from my car battery should do the trick?

I know there is a vacume , I have 1/2 gal of fresh gas in the tank , I set it to PRI for 10 min , then put it on reserve because ther is only 1/2 gallon in there. Ill try again tomorrow with a boost. the batt is on a trickle charger right now. if this does not work I will remove the carbs again and clean em up again ...
Old goat I really want to make this work , I dont want to trouble you to come take a look . Ill try a few more things . Maybe the oil filter is completely blocked , maybe the battery is the cause . I really appriciate the advice guys .

 

Just make sure your car isn't running when you boost the bike! Very bad things can happen!!

 

A fully charged battery is a must for running these things. Sounds like it is time to spring the $40 and buy a new one from Wal-Mart. Using your car battery is ok so long as it isn't attached to a running car at the time...
Just in case, you should pick up a new set of plugs while your at it. Cheap and usually makes a hard starter a bit easier to start.

 

Once again.. good to know . My battery is Brand new . And Plugs will be my next investment . I m really looking forward to having this bike purr.

 

If you hook it up to a car battery you'll be able to crank it all day. DON'T

20 seconds cranking and then a couple minutes to let the starter cool. If it doesn't start in 20 seconds it's time to work on something anyhow.

 

wait a sec... Hook the bike directly to the car battery, or run the car battery to the bike battery to boost it . what will happen if the car is started ? just want to know. over and out

 

A good battery charger works for me.

 

Don't run the car while running the bike off the car battery. Try starting the bike a few times then unhook it from the car battery. Start the car, charge up the battery for a little while and then use it again on the bike.

One question, and maybe this is a dumb one but is your bike one of those that won't start if the kick stand is down? And I have to ask - is the kick stand down?
thx,
baz

 

you can have your bike on the center stand or the side stand and will start/run just make sure its not in neutral

 

johnny,
no twisting the throttle while starting, you're flooding the engine. Just use the choke to start, no messing with the throttle. But since you have been using the throttle, open up the airbox, the cover is under the fusebox. Make sure your airbox doesn't have gasoline in the bottom from twisting throttle. Also check the air filter. If it's soaked with gasoline, you might not be getting enough air or not enough clean air. And don't worry about mixing conventional and synthetic oils. It doesn't hurt anything. Just drain your old oil and put in some good quality 20w50. Any good oil Castrol, Belray, whatever. And a new air filter. New clean plugs, properly gapped.
Make sure the battery is charged then try starting with JUST the choke and starter button, no throttle twisting.
Good luck and let us know how you're making out.
thx,
baz

 

I changed the Plugs and put the choke to barley open, and she fired Right up ..woowho! seems to idle smooth but is reving very high, like 3000 rpm.

 

Bike is running, but is backfiring every second in idle, It seems to come from the right side exaust.

I have discovered there are leaks on both sides of the exaust
(between header and tail pipe), and the two join on the underside. nothing is rusted or punctured , but pulled appart rather .

im using a muffler putty to seal the joints for now to see if thats the cause of the backfire .

 

Job well done! Glad to hear.

I doubt holes in the exhaust would be the cause of backfiring... When I bought my bike the mufflers were taken off and it ran without backfiring.

When you have too lean of an air fuel mixture, it tends to backfire.. Check and make sure your mixtures just fine.

As far as the idling, Try what I tried to see what the problem is:

Disconnect the throttle cable from the right grip and don't pull on it. Fire the engine up and see how it revs... if its 1200ish, then the cable is being pulled on too much at idle... To remedy this, under (and attached) to the right grip is a hard little pipe with threading... loosen the bolt and screw it in (shortening the pipe) a few turns and see how it idles with the cable attached to the grip.

If disconnecting the grip from the cable has no affect on the idle speed, then I'm not sure.... I'm unfamiliar with these engines..Is there an Idle adjustment screw??