Dreaded starter clutch replacement

My yellow seca starter clutch was slipping quite badly in 2019 , I had bought a another engine from Joe Eliff all he knew it had 38,000 thousand , so swapped it in oh the joy it ran great . All was good till last weekend rode 350 miles stopped to fill up and it stated slipping, finally got it started , rode 80 miles from filling station stopped at Mickey D's ate lunch ...and it would not hit at all there was an incline was able to bump stop bike . Rode the last 60 miles with no STOPS . When bike is cold starts perfect, get it hot and it slips. Did usual changed oil again , even swapped starter ...no joy . So doing the deed , pulled the original engine out ,and started tearing in to engine . There are many threads on this subject....but it never hurts to have another . My work bench space is limited and would not take the weight , so a couple of weeks ago on my way home someone was throwing away a wooden pallet , drug it home ( my wife wanted it for the wood for a pinterest project) this is perfect and keeps engine from getting marred up .
Day 1 drained oil, pulled clutch and left side cover .
Day 2 removed alternator stator , hit first snag getting the rotor out , threaded in bolt and no joy . Went to my local dealer , I'm lucky local dealer has been in business since late 60's and he has helped me out . I had a bolt but he had a a stepped tool and off it came . Snag number 2 the rotor seal cover one of the torx screws would not budge , ended up drilling and an easy out . I got all the electric harness and components off engine . Got most of the upper the fasteners loose over the gear box . Almost ready to flip over to pull oil pan. Taking a break but here are some pictures of some tools that make it much easier and pictures of engine tear down.

 

You will have those cases split in no time with the progress you are making.

 

Day 3 got case split and starter clutch out !!! I had bought the replacement spring and roller, but I also bought the whole assembly. I elected to go with the whole assembly, the springs are slightly longer and are a little more firm and the oil holes are larger and chamfered on edge. Now the part I'm scared of...putting it back together.

 

Have you got a replacement guide for the starter alternator chain?

 

Exellent work, lets see the clutch failure point.. Separate that starter clutch assembly. I'm curious if it was the springs, rollers, or roller surfaces?

 

No apparent failure this is the orginal engine worked fine till engine got hot and would slip . The rollers looked fine but the springs maybe weak . Checked them against the new springs and new are slightly longer .

 

The guide appears good the original engine is extremely clean inside .

 

Yep sounds like springs collapsed from heat/age and use...

 

I'm with @Mechanic1978 here - allways nice to know what actually failed (or as here was occasionally failing).
So it looks like the springs were weakened then?

 

If possible I wouldn't mind seeing the inner ring roller surfaces... up to you of course. Lol

 

I was worried that there might be cracks in face plate but it looked okay . The caltric clutch actually looked better than old assembly. The springs are longer and the oil holes are larger .

 

So did mine but I changed it anyway in view of the minimum cost for the guide and the amount of work involved should it fail later.

 

Isn't this quite due to fail because of age and not milage? If so I would also definitely change while you're in there!

 

Impressive work btw...

 

Yes they fail due to age. Then gear selection problems happen when the guide breaks up.

 

My xj550 that I maintain, only has 11k miles on it, but also is still using all original parts. Were 3rd owners of it, original owner bought it new and only put gas in it. I have over years replaced clutch packs, and a few bulbs. Everything else is original. so I believe your correct, mileage not so big of a role in it, but more the use and abuse.. Any starting issues I never keep cranking on it, I look for the no start issue, with minimal times testing the starting.

 

Looking at the cost in parts and time to rebuild the engine (especially if the top of the engine is stripped down too) then it is prudent to replace the guide. That's what I did anyway, each owner must decide for themselves.

 

Change that alternator chain guide. You'll regret it later if you don't do it now.

 

Calling it an evening got starter clutch back in place , I forgot to get Yamabond the other day would rather use this than RTV on case halfs . I still need to clean up halfs . Took some time to inspect the rollers in the starter clutch one has a gouge or flat spot not sure if photo will show. I also have a photo of the larger oil holes on the new starter clutch vs the old one . I hope I'm showing decent pictures that shown the internals . I inspected the crank bearings these and crank are in great shape as I recall engine had 12 thousand on it.

 

Probably should but going to chance it and leave it as is , these appear to be in good shape and still pliable.

 

Your chain looks better than mine did but with only 12,000 miles on the engine it should.

 

Had to pull starter clutch back out...in my haste and overlooking I had not put oil on the rollers , know oil will flow down oil holes ...BUT I did not want to take a chance . Started putting a few item back in , but started cleaning mating surface of cases . Now I'm worried getting the shift fork on the drum was my major concern.

 

Take your time... sounds like your on right track...

 

Once you get the gearbox components in and you are reassembling the cases spin your selector drum a few times by hand to make sure all the gears are selecting property. I tried without sealant on the cases a couple of times before l coated the joint faces and assembled them.

 

Another tricky bit is getting the bottom of the tensioner side cam chain guide in the pocket in the lower case. You will know it's all right when the cases go together easily.

 

Down to cleaning oil sump and case halfs . Took stock of my gasket set , had used oil sump gasket on the engine that is in the yellow seca. Xj4ever to the rescue ordered gasket, clutch bolts and eBay for the exhaust gaskets . I have not put the case together yet , I went to my Yamaha dealer for Yamabond and they were out but the owner had a bit of it in the garage he gave it to to me...great dealer.

 

when you get to the sealant part, put some in the corner of a baggie and snip 1/16 inch off the corner
then you get a nice thin bead and you can practice making little flowers with the leftovers, like the lady at the baker shop
works for 5 minute epoxy too

 

I'm bummed I made the mistake on the oil spray nozzle I drove it in snapping off locating tab , I attempted to do a hillbilly repair drilled it and put a small screw in cut to length and trimmed down diameter. It worked , but this bothered me I would be worried it not being aligned with oil hole or not spraying right . So Xj4ever to the rescue again ordered a new nozzle. Until I get parts I'm dragging my feet about putting lower case on , well will take the time to clean up parts .

 

You can repair the old one as a spare using a roll pin. @k-moe mentioned it in another thread.

 

Well as the old saying goes " Here's mud in your eye" put lower case back in place , went back in for the most part without much trouble . As far as I can see forward guide is in place in notch and shift fork is on the drum . Installed the bottom bolts still need to flip over and put top bolts in place . Making progress but have to wait on parts tomorrow will put a little more parts back in . Got alot of cleaning to do !!! I was sweating so bad from the humidity, tried to fire up yellow seca ...this starter clutch is toast ....slipping cold as well . So will have to do this one as well . I have learned a few things now as long as this one works fingers crossed. At least my Johnny Cash bike runs

 

Can you spin the selector drum by hand?

 

Omg I started reassembly and engine will not turn over at crank over turns a few degrees...going to tear it back down . I know I should have checked this first ...give up for the night will look at in morning.

 

Yesterday took lower case back off , found one of the right upper case bolt behind cylinder head snapped off and was very rusty . I had so many types of extractors no luck, even tried heat , ended up drilling and tapping . My parts from xj4ever showed up whooo , l spent some time cleaning oil sump , cleaned out the oil level sensor and found the wire cover cracked and the connector not so good . Put heat shrink over orginal sheathing and a new wire plug , looks factory . My goal today is to get cases cleaned back up will see how that goes .

 

Success got lower case on and after fighting it got shift fork in place , engine turns over with a wrench on timing wheel . Making progress will see how far I get today.

 

Starter clutch wise.
Did you disassemble it?
I only ask because I have seen the main core of the clutch with a crack completely through it that can't be seen without yanking those hex bolts.
Probably hard for the mechanism to work properly if the base is flexing.

EDIT: sorry, only just realised you were putting it back together. I had this issue once in 2 engines and it was cracked right through, so I thought I'd mention it.

 

Nope put a new starter clutch in with new springs and rollers . Now that I know what I'm doing now, the engine in my yellow seca won't be as bad if I decide to do it.

 

When Jetfixer

 

If this runs afterwards ...then I might do the deed

 

It will run.

 

Making progress got clutch and clutch cover back on ,my intent is to fill with oil and spin it over with starter . Calling it a night still cleaning up left side cover.

 

A quick note anyone needing to do this here is a list of things you will need:
1. Pan gasket for oil sump.
2. Clutch cover gasket.
3. Shift cover gasket.
4. Red and blue lock tight.
5. Starter clutch spring and roller kit.
6. Optional a new starter clutch ...I put new in .
7. My chain guides were in good shape but if it is breaking up you will need new guides.
8. If you do guides you will need to pull head so you will need head gasket and guide gasket.
9. Recommend Yamabond sealant .
10. Of course oil and two oil filters....after running engine run for short period , drain engine and change filter . The reason is any swarf in the engine will be washed out in the oil.
Fill with fresh oil.
11. Optional if removed valve cover gasket might need replaced.
12. New intake gaskets.
13. After engine is reinstalled you will need new exhaust gaskets .

I'm sure I left something out but these were some of the things I found.

Cheers

 

14. patience

 

Four torx bolts for middle drive gear.

 

I should have added somethings for this task.
1. Several large zip lock freezer bags.
2. Sharpie marker for labeling .
3. A couple of cardboard boxes ...draw out with sharpie the pattern of the case to keep the location of the bolts , I marked them with the size of bolts for location.
4. Recommend , I have a set of 3/8 inch drive Allen wrenches as well a set of Torx these are real handy .
5. Of course 10, 12 mm wrenches as well as sockets in this size as well. A 30mm socket for the clutch nut . A 19mm wrench is my preferred for the left crank shaft nut. ( a crescent wrench can be used).
6. 2 torque wrenches inch pounds ( in/lbs) and foot pounds (ft/lbs).
7. Degreaser / cleaner .

Well I hope I have helped anyone having to do this

 

Went to put rotor back in housing , engine would not turn with crank bolt took it back out the torx screws were dragging on the back of the rotor , took them back out tapped plate no help screws were not flush . Broke out my aircraft sheetmetal tools ...had to blow dust off ( been in managment since 2010) took out a countersink opened the fastener holes on the plate , the screws are now flush and remounted rotor and ...engine turns over with no dragging.

 

Put shift lever cover on , poured oil down cylinders left spark plugs out. Poured oil in and put starter in ...and it cranks .!!!! Sounds good to boot . Still have to put stator and cover back on , might pull engine out of the bike and this engine back in .

 

I started removing the engine out of my seca ,down to mount bolts and wiring hope I can get it out in morning maybe.

 

Removed engine , reinstalling repaired engine had a bunch of problems getting it back in . Finally got it in place , got left side mounts in but had to call it a night . This has taken me 9 days if I could have worked without interruptions could have done much faster . Trying to decide if I'm going to fix the engine I just pulled right away or not.

 

Oh joy when I got engine in I did not look at the drive shaft boot ...it was wedged between the drive flange , had to take out mount bolts and raise engine slightly ...but got it. Got electrics hooked up ,engine cranks over very well , down to exhaust and installing carbs .

 

You can do your spare motor in your sleep now.