converting lights to LED

IF you want to get creative, you used to be able to order great wide angle LED's off ebay for next to nothing, then the sky's the limit wher eyou put them, my turn signals and rear running light are hidden under the rear fender and are VERY visible(someone could go blind gawking at them too long.) The piece they were attatched to was custom made using some plastic and ha torch to shape it. i'll see if i cant find some pics for you...

 

I was just reading this thread and from what I can tell, some of you guys are the LED light experts on these bikes.........

I want to convert my '82 XJ650 Maxim (XJ650J) to LED's.....any chance someone can provide me with a complete list of which items I will need from your (best) supplier of choice? Meaning I would need the part numbers for the bulbs and relays, etc.....amber front and rear turn signals, red brake light, white license plate light, and whatever you recommend for the dash indicator lights and guages illuination. My self-cancel system doesn't work as it is, so that's no biggy for me right now, I've gotten use to hand-cancelling them.

Have anyone ever used a brake light modulator unit----and does it work properly with LED's in place of incadescents?

Finally, what headlight upgrade have you used/recommend?

Thanks!

 

I tired some LED lamps from the auto store but they didn't work very well because of not being bright enough to be seen in daylight. I think the only way to get enough light out of them is to use Luxeon brand or similar LEDs that come in 1 or 3 watt versions but they have to be mounted on a heatsink so mounting them gets complicated. If anyone is trying to use regular LEDs of the round 5mm variety use red ones not white because the white ones don't last very long. Actually, there is no such thing as white, they are blue LEDs coated with yellow phosphor so when the phosphor burns off they get dim. I've had some white ones last less than an hour although the Luxeon brand is supposed to last up to 50,000 hours before dropping to 50% brightness according to Philips. More information on this can be found here: http://longlifeledlampsareamyth.netfirms.com

 

Success! I recently changed my brake lights and turn signals to LEDs. The tail lights worked imediatly but the turn signals took a bit of doing. I baught two electronic flashers in a row but neither worked. As it turns out the cancelling unit wasn't allowing the turn signals to turn on. As far as I can determine from the schematics the cancelling unit essentially acts as a switch on the ground wire going to the flasher relay. Looking at the cancelling unit connector the middle pair of pins are the bike ground and the flasher relay common lead. I removed the cancelling unit and shorted the two pins together. Now that the cancelling unit is bypassed the signals work perfectly. (They don't auto-cancell of course)
The next project is to cut open an extra cancelling unit and see if it can be made to work with the electronic flasher.
____
| - - |
| - - | <-- Short these
| - - |
|___|

By the way, I'm using 18 LED tower bulbs from ebay. I'm very happy with them. Well made, bright, and they fit well. http://stores.ebay.com/All-Things-Interesting

1982 XJ550RJ Seca (In a state of ever-receding perfection)

 

I'd be very interested in knowing more about your efforts to convert Raisin. I'm contemplating the conversion simply to reduce the load on my electrical system. I've got a limited degree of knowledge on the solid state flasher unit on our machines but it has been a few years since I tore one open. I don't think there is any reason that on could not convert an electric flasher to work in conjunction with the older unit with a timer on it. Keep us posted, I'm curious to see the end result.

 

Well, this topic is very timely to what I'm doing with Serenity. I've just bought these:

http://shorterlink.org/1577

http://shorterlink.org/1578


And obviously they don't flash because of load. But what I found was one of these:

http://shorterlink.org/1579

A resistive load equalizer that should allow you to continue using the auto-cancel without modification.

(If these links don't work let me know and I'll post the originals.)


BTW - under what condition does the auto-cancel cut in? I haven't ridden the bike enough to know.

 

After about 25+ years of tinkering with electronics and wiring I really don't feel like messing with replacing the auto-cancel flasher system unless I'm willing to just say screw it and live without the auto-cancel.

Though I suppose if I knew the entire circuit and conditions under which it triggers I could come up with s circuit design to replace it that is LED friendly.

Though as you can see from the other post I've decided that I want the look and lifespan of the LEDs regardless of if I get the reduced draw or not.

 

C. Self-Cancelling Flasher System
1. Description:
The self-cancelling flasher system turns off the turn signal after a period of time or distance involved in turning or changing lanes. Generally, the signal will cancel after either 10 seconds, or 150 meters (490 feet), whichever is greater. At very low speed, the function is determined by distance; at high speed, especially when changing speeds the canceling determination is a combination of both times and distance.

 

Cool. Thanks for the info!

Now if I can just determine all the factors it's looking at then I can get a simple PIC or microcontroller and come up with a replacement. I just need to know what to program for. Time is the easy one. It's almost worth just using a simple 555 timer and making it adjustable.

For the distance I'm assuming it's counting revolutions on the speedo via the closure of the reed switch?

Something as simple as the bottom level Basic Stamp could be made to do this stuff without too much trouble.

 

You're welcome, and you're right, it's just counting the reed switch!

If you get a working replacement, you going to post schematics, and parts list???????

 

IF I get one made then I will definitely post details and a parts list. As with many things I'm behind on my circuit development stuff but I've recently consolidated some bills so I can spend some money to set up some things I've been holding off on.

 

Okay dumb question, but can we remove the self canceling feature and still have working lights. don't need it anyway, just have to turn it off manualy, which I normally do anyways

 

Oh and for the record, and oddity, a 4 ohm speaker across the turn signal leads makes the turn signal in question function properly. ;-)

 

Well...from the diagram shown me it makes sense that you could cut the wire between the flasher and the auto-cancel then replace the flasher with a two-wire electronic one.

http://shorterlink.org/1580

(And no I don't have anything personally to do with that site - I just Googled it up.)

 

Which also means that you could wire in four of these:

http://shorterlink.org/1583
(Mouser electronics - 4.5 ohm under "power resistors". Second one down - 50W.)

Which would be $20+shipping. About the cost of one of the load balancers I posted.

You'd have to mount them out of the way due to heat though. Make sure nobody touches them.

 

ooh ooh ooh! I want one too!

 

schmidtap you can replace the self canceling relay with a generic one. I did and took some pictures in this thread:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2156.html

Robert, I think using one of those load resistors to allow the factory relay to work puts the same load on the system as the conventional bulbs, defeating the purpose.

 

late rejoining the thread... if I missed some posts please forgive me

If you use a resistor you throw away any electrical gains you would have... that's where the heat is coming from.

It depends on why you're doing the mod, if it's to gain electrical overhead for a heated vest or gps... then resistors aren't the answer.

 

Which as you pointed out gets rid of the auto-cancel.

As I stated it did. (Though I have four Mouser 50W, 4.5ohm resisters on the way anyway to get my signals working immediately.)

I've picked up a Basic Stamp kit today to see if I can't develop something a little better as a complete replacement that will handle LED lights by default.

I'm thinking an auto-cancel using an accelerometer and software timing. Start a timer after a quick change in motion either left or right then cancel the signals X seconds after that. A prototype won't be cheap but I'm betting they could be mass-produced or even minorly-produced fairly inexpensively.

 

OK - got a question about the canceling of the turn signal switch itself. I've never taken one apart so could someone explain in simple terms how that works? Does the canceling unit trigger a solenoid in the switch or is it something else?

I've figured out that with what the Basic Stamp does all this can be done with software and a couple of relays. I can use a relay and a solid state flasher to do the actual flashing and turn it on and off using the Basic Stamp. The Stamp also can read PWM natively so not only can I use an accelerometer if I want but I can read the existing reed switch in the speedo as well.

It's almost like the Stamp was made for this job which is pretty cool.

I got the Stamp kit today so I'll see if I can come up with at least a circuit in the next few weeks or so.

 

:grin:

I'll see what I can do. I haven't done component level development in years so this is a pure joy for me to do. And like I said, it looks like this will be a slam dunk if I can figure out what I need for data.

 

I didn't pay too much attention to the relay, but it wasn't much. It was a resistor a fairly big capacitor and what looked to me like an electro-magnet. If you look at the link I posted with the pictures, you can see that almost the left half of that relay was the capacitor.

The electro-magnet had an L shaped piece of metal on the end that made contact with another piece.

 

I wasn't talking about the relay I was talking about the inside of the turn signal switch itself. Or are they the same thing?

If the switch contains a solenoid that physically trips the switch itself then the circuit I drew up tonight should work fine as long as I can capture the pulses from the speedometer switch and figure out exactly at what speed it starts the timer or shuts off the signals.

I've got some SCRs (basically solid state relays to the non-techie types) on order that I'm going to use to test all this with. I figure, bar the falling anvils of life, I can have something prototyped by the end of February.

Some part of me would like to do this with an accelerometer instead of talking to the speedo but that adds another $30 to the project and I want to try and keep it fairly inexpensive.

 

Hey, has anyone used this upgrade? It seems like it's a replacement stator unit, perhaps more tightly wound (?) than OE. Are there any other items needed/ramifications of upgrading to a higher-output alternator? Is the TCI and/or regulator going to like this? Will the extra 4amps fry anything?

Thanks........

 

the led's dont draw enuf amperage to heat up the bi-metal strip in the flasher unit,and open the circuit causing the lite to go out,then it cools again and lites the bulb again...wire in a lo-voltage time delay contactor in place of it,you can get them at most electronic stores...all you need is the volt/amp rating of all the led's and a volt rating. if your lucky, youll find an adjustable one

 

I'd like a variable rate flasher that works with standard bulbs.

I'd settle for a faster blink rate if there's an easy and inexpensive Mod.

What would be easy and cheap?

Did I mention cheap?

 

Wow I forgot about this thread.. I had promised some pics/vid of the tower LED's and never made good. I will take care of that later on today once the sun comes out. I did however come up with a way to improve the look of the dash panel while I had it apart, and took pics of that..


For starters, I went to a U-pick junkyard and grabbed a selection of Lexan gauge needles (the clear ones that actually light up) to replace the stock ones that rely on light from around the face. The ones that fit I believe were from a Ford wagon - the temp and fuel needles. (You may feel different, but the junkyard that I went to had burned me twice before, once for over $300, so I had no reservations about just smashing a bunch of gauge clusters and pocketing the needles.)

Next step is to remove the front panel from the cluster to get at the gauge faces. Use needlenose pliers to carefully pull off the old needles, and remove the two screws in each face that hold them to the mechanics. Do not remove the mechanics, because you will need to place the LED's around them. Then grab that tinfoil bulb hat the factory stuck in there and yank it out.

I ordered several white 6-LED modules from www.superbrightleds.com (WLED-6). Take some 22ga stranded wire double it up, and run an 8" tail out through the stock bulb hole. Then route the wires around the perimeter of the housing to get an idea of the length you will need (3/4 of the way around will do fine). There will be a bulb soldered to the end. Then mark 3 other spots on the wire to put bulbs (in clear spots in the housing so you dont interfere with the mechanics).. Heat up a pair of SHARP wire cutters with a torch or on the stove, and carefully open up a few millimeters of the insulation on both conductors at each mark.

You will now have to hook up a 12v source to the tails you left out the back of the gauge. Reason is, these LED modules are polarized (will only work when hooked up one way), but + and - are not marked on them so you'll just have to see which way they work. So starting with the end bulb, bend the wire leads off the wedge base of the LED, touch them to the wires to determine which way it works, then solder it on. Do the same thing at each spot you removed the insulation. Just be careful, these suckers are real bright and they will give you flash spots if you look directly into them.

Now that you have all 8 bulbs working, hot glue the bulbs to the sides of the gauge cavities (again, making sure they don't interfere with mechanics). If you point them sideways, you won't get 'hotspots' on the face of the gauge and it will light evenly. If you have a cluster with the computer monitor, make sure you point one of them on each side at the light pickups sticking out the side of the computer.

Now you have a very intense source of light below the gauge faces, and you are basically done. But before you put the faces back, you will need to do a little bit of scraping to allow your new needles to light up. The needles pick up light around the center pin, so take a razor blade and scrape about 1/8" of the black paint off all the way around the hole. Then all you have to do is put the faces back on and fit your new needles. The tach needle fit right on. The speedo needle needed to have its hole drilled out, (which I overdrilled, so I put a dab of hot glue on the pin and pressed the needle down). Depending on the condition of the needles, you may want to scrape the paint off the bottom of them and refresh it. Make sure you use a fluorescent paint (your choice of color!) because white LED's are high in UV light output, which makes the needles light up so much better.

Thats about it! Your results should looks something like this (I'm a little pissed that Yamaha chose to put a yellow filter on the faces of the gauges.. I would like the numbers to be white, but oh well).. When I get my new face panel I'll take some 'apart' pics to show how the bulbs are mounted. Since the needles no longer need surface lighting, I also want to 'seal' the faces so that only the backlighting shows and you don't see the halos around the faces.

 

Wow. Just.... wow.

 

Great job! I like the idea about the illuminated needle (kinda like fiber optics). I did replace the cluster lights with LED's, and I agree with you on the original yellow look - yuck. The bright whites look so much better. I would like to caution folks that "too bright" of an instrument cluster can effect your night vision. Now I'm thinking of first adding a water resistant micro-potentiometer to the circuit, your Lexan needle idea, and some additional red LED's (red light isn't so hard on your night vision). Then I can adjust the brightness based on driving conditions. Man, the ideas just keep coming...

 

As promised a year ago here's comparison videos of the 31-LED tower style bulbs vs standard 1156/1157. They are a little deceiving as far as brightness, because I think the camera is picking up the infrared that standard bulbs generate, therefore the standard bulbs look a lot brighter on camera than they really are. However, when you're looking at them, the LED's are not that much weaker. The most obvious difference you will see though is the instant on,. instant off that LED's produce.

Here's the LEDs only during the day (all bulbs LED)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/ ... MG1661.flv

Here's the same shot with 1157's in the tail light and an 1156 in the right turn signal. Left still has an LED.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/ ... MG1659.flv

And here's the LED's at night.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/ ... MG1656.flv

 

Outstanding.
I'd love to have an illustrated version of this Re-lamping w/ LED's Tutorial.
The narrative makes it sound too simple to me.
There has to be quite a lot of finesse involved to get the spacing right and the LED's directed at the center of the instrument from the perimeter of the gauge.

But, the end result is quite dramatic and I do like it quite a lot.

Another reason why the ingenuity of the members of this site amaze me!

 

Sno,

I think woot and 2fast answered your question but, the dash lights in my opinion would definately need to be "Superbrite" as any other low voltage led's seem to be lacking lumens or candella.

As for the turns, I changed over to led units(aftermarket) and changed out the flasher to an electronic and am living without a cancelling unit and a warning on my dash. It's a small price to pay for the power reduction.

 

I have been riding with front and back LED signals for 2 years now. They did not flash when first connected but 15 bucks and a load equalizer from the cycle shop cured that quick. I have not noticed any problem in the elctrical system since that time and my bike starts tip top. Easy to install and way better than a hundred dollar flasher/cancel unit. Well it was for me, I don't always have a hundred bucks. I also run 2 LED running lights on the tail end. Please don't twist connect the new lights!!! Take the time to solder... you'll save yourself hassle later. good luck.

 

ok now, this seems like a lot of trouble for leds. but basically, i need 1157 bulbs for the tail and/or 1156 bulbs for the turn signals in amber or red (whichever is applicable), and either a load equalizer/ load transistor or a blinking module so i can have blinking signals, taillight leds. is that all correct?
wow this is a long post to read in one sitting.

 

After doing a fair amount of research last year on just this subject I came to the conclusion that you can use a microcontroller, some added parts, and some custom programming to replace the auto-canceling turn-signal relay and eliminate the load resistors and other such devices. The problem is that I have yet to come up with a good program and circuit. (Between time eaten by work and our recent house purchase everything in that arena has been put on hold for quite some time now.)

It _is_ possible but you'll be spending the required $100 in parts no matter what direction you take to replace the auto-cancel unit. Regardless I'll still keep working on the problem when I can because I want to get rid of those large gold resistors under my seat.

 

I'm experimenting with CMOS 555 timers right now. They will handle the Vcc and can be rigged to run a astable state for a given period. Why not convert to this?

 

Wow, lots of info in this mega-thread. am copying a query from another thread; fits better here...

Electronic/LED lights sound good; most likely will be changing later. But it's great riding weather so right now want brighter headlight on stock circuit. Advice?

(Halogen is fine but not if I have to also take time now for additional conversions.)

Thanks for any help

 

i am looking at replacing my lights with led i got the numbers for the dash
but when i get to the tailight and license plate lights i am not sure for the taillight there are 12,15,24,and 30 led bulbs i assume 30 would be best but would i save any watts over the stock light
i am also trying to get some running lights on this bike but i need to free up some wattage to get them on there hence the led conversion

 

Because when it comes down to it I'm a sucker for punishment and can't let an idea go easily.

That and you can't attach an accelerometer to a 555 timer. ;-D

I'm still re-organizing from the move but the upside is that now I have a full garage space to set up in so I'll get to more of these projects. I'd love to roll my own speed-sensitive audio amp but that's yet another thing on the back burner at the moment.

 

True, but you can use an A/D converter with an encoder and AND those signals together to get your distance and timing inputs to control the flasher. I haven't quite worked out the logic on it yet but it is do-able.
Hope you get settled in easily. Moving sucks.

 

Has anyone looked into changing the headlight to Super Bright LEDs??

 

I thought about the issues with that and it _could_ be done but you're going to have to construct a complete housing the same size as a round (or square) sealed bulb with said reflector to allow the beam to spread properly.

Second I'm not sure if the beam in question would meet the distance requirements for DOT.

Third and last - LEDs in the quantity you propose would likely use less voltage overall but MORE current. Check into it - it's true. To regulate that many LEDs that are in _constant_ use almost requires a good switching power supply. Also super-bright LEDs actually put out a fair amount of heat and they _do_ burn out over time. Granted not as fast as normal bulbs but still on the edge of consumability. Especially if they are cheaply produced.

The technology is there but in its infancy. I'm not gonna tell you to not try it because hell I've done a bunch of things people told me wouldn't be worthwhile but my advice is wait about 2 years and consider the project again.

 

Doesn't Canadian Tire, NAPA, etc., sell replacement LED's for different stock signal/tail lights? Would that not be an easier option than all of the additional wiring detailed in the thread?

 

Those bulbs are sold many places but due to the size/current requirements for making the mechanical/thermal flashers work they are unlikely to include the necessary load resistors. They're fine if you've got an electronic flasher though.

 

I've been thinking of moving over to LED's on my 83 Maxim for the tail light and front/rear signals...would that be mechanical or electrical?

 

The brake/tail light bulbs should be able to be replaced with LED bulbs without modification.

The turn signals need one of two things done.

Either:

1) Replace the old mechanical/thermal flasher with an electronic one. (Losing the auto-cancel in the process.)

or

2) Add large wattage resistors in series with the new LED turn signals so that they draw the correct amount of current to properly activate the mechanical/thermal flasher. (These resistors are also sold as an assembly online but sometimes if you know how to solder/crimp you can get the resistors cheaper individually.)

 

I have an 83 XJ750 Maxim and the turn signals are round. Will this LED mod work? I can go back through the thread and find all the parts required but does someone have the complete list of parts required and where to get them?

Thanks to all the dedicated people that like to experiment.
Joe
XJs Forever

 

Physical shape/size of the turn signals _does_ _not_ _matter_. Period. What matters is only if you have an electronic or a mechanical flasher.

Mechanical flashers and LED lights require load resistors. If you poke through either this thread or search the forums you'll find notes about what resistors to use.

 

Just a thought.
The reason to go with LED's is to lower the amps pulled.
If you insert resistors inline then aren't you defeating the purpose?

 

Yes and no. The response time for LEDs is much faster and can help quite a bit in an emergency situation so you gain that much. But yes if you want power reduction you'll have to go with an electronic flasher and lose the auto-cancel.