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1980 XJ650 - LED turn signals

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by das5150, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    OK... I tried my best NOT to post anything on LED signals here, realizing that there is a ton of info, but.... I can't get these things to work.

    I have read everything and realize the challenges and drawbacks. I've tried a bunch of different flashers, none work. I do not care about the self cancelling feature, I can deal with not having that. Now, I should just need a simple 2 prong electric flasher, right? Leave the yellow/green (self cancel) wire off, connect the brown/white and solid brown to the terminals and away we go, right? Nope.
    With the 2 prong set-up (that should work from what I've read), when I turn either the left or the right signal on all 4 signal lights come on and no flash. What's up? Seems like a bad ground or something? All signals are wired pos leads to LED and ground to frame. I believe they are "non-resistor" LED's. Just cheapos... These are the ones:
    http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/LP-U ... BLACK.html

    Is there a relay other than the original flasher/self cancel unit? I've heard ppl talking about the "signal relay". Are they just using a different name for this? Or is there actually a separate relay? If so, could this be the issue? I don't want to run resistors or anything. Just want a simple fix and for it to flash in the direction of turn when I hit the signal! Haha...

    I have a couple 3 prong units hanging around from when I thought it was simple plug and play... should I try grounding one of these to the frame? Should I buy a "no load electronic flasher"? Will that solve all my problems?

    If anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    We do have a flasher that will work with LED turn signals, and yours might, too, just be aware that you need to replace your stock incandescent turn signal indicator bulb (in the gauge cluster) with an LED bulb, too. We also carry those.
     
  3. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    I'm interested! Cost for the flasher and the bulb? How fast can you ship it? PM me if you want.
     
  4. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    There's GOTTA be a local (Canadian Tire? Pep Boys? Autozone?) solution to this... right? Like I said, I couldn't care less about the self cancelling feature. I have tried the following flashers (all electronic):
    EL12
    EL13
    HD12
    HD13
     
  5. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    Sent you a pm.........
     
  6. das5150

    das5150 Member

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  7. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    It sounds like your flasher is not grounded and/or your flasher unit is not a solid state or not an "electronic" unit. The OEM or magnetic type relay needs a certain level of current load to start interrupting or "flashing." Also if you just plug an LED flasher into the stock harness the wiring may not be in the correct configuration, hence not grounding. There should be a schematic on the side of the flasher, compare it to the 650 wiring diagram.

    I used an off the shelf flasher from PartsSource. You need an electronic "LED" variable load flasher rated something like .02A-10A +. I need to do some under the tank work today, so I'll take a picture of the flasher I used and post it later.

    Chacal knows what he is talking about and sells good parts, I have ordered from him in the past. He also makes a good point about swapping out the dash bulbs for LED ones.

    Take/post some pictures of your setup and I can help you out.

    I posted this in a different thread:
    An aftermarket LED flasher usually wont plug straight into the OEM connector. You can however pull the pins or brass blades of the stock connector and reroute the wires to make it work.

    The brass blades are locked to the connector by very small tabs (a small flat bladed screwdriver might work, but you can get a the right tool). I think Pico is the brand I have, comes as a kit of three and you can pull apart any pin/blade connector with them...inexpensive and worth the hassle reduction). Like these:
    Summit Racing - Pico pin extractors

    Once the blades are out you need to solder up and run a new ground wire. Check the schematic on the side of the LED flasher. That ground wire goes into the respective slot on the OEM connector.
     
  8. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    Here is what I used, available from autoparts store. "L" is your signal, and then + and - respectively. You need to reconfigure the OEM plug by moving the wires around (or cut and solder) to the correct locations as needed. You will also need to run a new ground wire.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    So which wires do you have going in? I have a brown, brown with white stripe and yellow with green stripe. I understand the yellow/green is the self cancel thing, so that's gone. Do I need to run a + lead (say from the batt) to the +, and ground the - to somewhere? Then that leaves 2 wires...
     
  10. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    What's your bike eg: 1980 XJ650 -->G?. I'll look at the specific wiring diagram. But should be able to give you a general answer based on the wire color.

    Create a signature on your account with your bike ID and set it to default attach makes things a bit easier for answering purposes.
     
  11. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    You can actually do this by just testing out the brown and brown/white positions.

    Ok
    #1- DON'T run a new (+) wire.
    #2 - DO run a new (-) wire from say the coil bolt to the (-) on the new flasher.
    #3- As you mentioned, cut and shrink wrap the yellow/green wire (self cancelling)
    #4- Either the brown or the brown/white is the (+) a multi-meter helps here
    #5- Either the brown or the brown/white is the "L" or load wire.
    #6 - As you can see it's a 50/50 chance for the two remaining terminals... try connecting one way and then the other..you won't mess anything up, but just a test so you don't risk blowing a fuse. Also disconnect your dash turn indicator bulbs. Reconnect them after you have the system working to identify if it's problematic to have an LED/Incandescent mix.
    #7 - I suspect that the brown wire is the (+) but colors varying according to make.
    #8 - Slightly counter intuitive but you only have one wire that "interrupts" or flashes both sides. That wire is most likely the brown/white that will go to the the "L" plug.

    :!: The new flasher will not plug straight into the OEM connector, so either pick out the brass blades ((they are a mother@#%$&* to get out)) or snip and re-solder the wires correctly to the OEM plug once all sorted.

    So a recap is: new (-) wire to (-) on the new flasher. Brown to (+) on new flasher. Brown/White to "L" on new flasher.

    Let me know the results and I can trouble shoot further if need be.
     
  12. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    Wiring Diagram - large image open in new tab

    This is what you most likely have. As you can see the brown (+) has a lot of duties. That's why sometimes with older (or PO messed up) wiring the signals will come on with horn beeps/brakes and so on...

    When I rewired my last project I wired the signals circuit to be independent of the other systems.

    I also have noted in another manual a possible mis-label of the wire colors at the handle bar switch on this diagram, but that should not affect anything here.
     
  13. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    ...and this is what you want
    [​IMG]
     
  14. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    You guys are awesome.
    OK, now... I'm at work so I'm not sure which wire was where last night, but I snipped the connector off, connected some female blades to the brown & brown/white. Then I ran a jumper ground to the coil bolt and hooked up the brown and brown/white. Had actual FLASHING for the first time! Only problem is it was all 4 signals. Crap. What does this indicate?
    Note that I hadn't taken the dash indicator bulb out. I will do that tonight.
     
  15. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    Also.... I just figured out now that I need to check the "attach signature" box.
    Sorry guys!
     
  16. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    Thanks..bikes are fun, sharing is good too...

    Cool now you can direct parades and use your signals as hazards when your old fuse box falls apart...mmm unless the signal fuse holder disintegrates. But in all seriousness your fuse box is the next item to upgrade, it may look fine, but it's just waiting to crumble. Search the forum for fuse box replacement blade style etc... Len/Chacal sells a good replacement.

    In all serious seriousness your 4-Way flashers is because of the single bulb in the dash cluster. You need to solder a couple Diodes into the dash cluster wires, easy fix, and all will be good. More on that below.

    You most likely have a G model XJ. Your serial number will show this. Add that to your signature for future clarity. For example: dash clusters vary quite a bit model to model. But I'm guessing you have a cluster with only one amber turn indicator, so that bulb is doing double duty. Like so yes/no?

    [​IMG]

    The schematic should be this:
    [​IMG]

    "Dg" should be Dark Green and "Ch" should be Dark Brown. Pretty standard configuration on all UJMs. Now see the two wires going into the one bulb? That's the issue it's making a loop because you mucked around the flasher wires/ LED flasher/ ground wire etc.... The "I want to ride right :!: now fix" is to snip one or both of those wires, and not have a dash indicator light. Here is the long term fix:

    [​IMG]

    Diodes are gates of sorts, they allow current one way but not the other so you have to solder them in pointing the right way. Easy Google search. I got mine at a store called B&E Electronics here in SK, not sure if that chain is in MB (presuming there is only one WPG in the world :D ). The Source may have them, but I always try to find industry specific outlets. 3AMP 200V is more than enough, although I think the smallest I could get were 3AMP 400V (?), no biggie. It's the amps that count here. Be sure to shrink wrap the soldered ends.

    Once all squared away the signal dash bulb will light up for either or the right/left, but the Diodes will block the circuit from completing to the other side. If your wiring is in order this should work. If you look at the large schematic, the two dash bulb wires are connected or "T'" off the the individual left/right Dg/Ch circuits.

    The reason one bulb works with the stock configuration is a bit lengthy to explain but it's partly to do with the amp load on the magnetic flasher... not a concern really.

    Have at it...
     
  17. das5150

    das5150 Member

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    Perfect! OK, I know of an electronics store that should have that. I'll give them a call.

    I feel like I really know my stuff because the fuse box is already upgraded! I had to do that in order to get it running when I bought it 4 years ago.

    Now, I run the risk of screwing up a VERY good source of info here, but.....
    GO BOMBERS!

    :)
     
  18. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    Good stuff. Might worth it to go ahead and clip those two dash bulb indicator wires since you have to anyway. This should get the left/right circuits independent. It would be a good baseline, and if the issue persists the next step would be to trouble shoot the wiring from there.
     
  19. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    That's good news. A funky fuse boxes creates the weirdest problems and can absorb so much diagnostic time chasing false problems. If you haven't done so already the next major item to check is the valve clearances. Lots of how-to's on this site. Properly shimmed valves and dialed carbs make these bikes go from good to amazing. Add good tires and decent suspension and the 650s are potential 883 killers light-to-light!
     
  20. Bruce_M

    Bruce_M Member

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    Ha ha..
    [​IMG]
     

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