A new project, the abandoned xj650RJ

Re: A new project...

So I am back home and looking at the starter, I also looked at the wiring diagram on the manual, all wires are color coded... except for the starter

There are two plugs coming out of the starter and my gut tells me that the two prong is probably the one that goes to the battery... right?

 

Re: A new project...

The starter motor on the engine? It doesn't need a color code, it's one of the three wires on the bike that are as thick as you pinky Only the starter needs a wire that thick because of it's current draw.

There should be a red wire going from your (+) battery terminal to your starter solenoid (relay). A black going from your (-) battery terminal to the engine (ground) and a long black wire going from your other solenoid terminal to the starter on the engine. The starter motor itself is grounded to the engine by it's mounts.

 

Re: A new project...

Manbot,

You are really patient, I should think, look, then ask questions on that order. I got so excited about getting home with the new battery that didn't look at the box of spare goodies that my friend gave me. That is where the starter motor is for the spare engine. Now I need to ask on the Buy/sell/trade for bolts to mount the starter to the engine.

I feel like I made some progress today but I wish I had more time to dedicate to this project, between full time job and little baby there is not much time to read, learn, ask stupid questions and work on the bike.

Here is a picture of what I've done so far: remove seat, gas tank, exhaust and battery. As soon as I have bolts to mount the starter I will get some compression numbers.

 

Re: A new project...

Not sure what the specs are for those bolts, but you should be able to source them locally. Should be a dedicated 'bolt & nut' type store that with the specs-length, thread, size, etc. they will have them. A source like that will come in handy when 're' building.

 

Re: A new project...

Ecologito,

Congrats on your new baby girl...Save your $. It won't be long before she's able to look in your eyes and know...she's got you in the palm of her hand . Real similiar to what we have with our mothers especially when we are young. Speaking of saving money...what Manbot and MM are saying is "solid". I would, however, try to be as cost effective as possible. Test the compression on the existing engine. Remove the bolts from the existing starter motor and see if you have them in your box of "goodies". If not, use those bolts to install the spare starter on the spare engine. Once you have the compression numbers for the spare engine remove and dis-assemble both starter motors. Clean, inspect and test both. The best commutator and brushes are the ones I would use. Of course, if both sets of brushes are out of spec, which I doubt, replace them.

Gary

P.S. - When you remove the existing starter motor bolts do not dis-engage the motor from the starter clutch by pulling out on the motor itself. Thataway, the motor will stay put until you are ready to actually remove it. The bolts should come straight up and out. One is longer than the other so keep in mind how they are located.

 

Re: A new project...

Thanks rocs,

I did have some time after dinner and before baby's bath to remove battery box and starter motor from the engine in the bike. I will be testing compression on the "good" engine tomorrow morning. I am hoping for good numbers, if they show to be good enough number I will get shims to get things measuring right so everything is tuned and the engine is "sharp' and ready to run.

The next step will be to test the ignition system and service the carbs before attaching to the engine.

So far this process has been pretty simple with all your help.

 

Re: A new project...

Good attitude.

Did you find a service manual yet?

Once you tear into the carbs, and then get to the front brakes, the "simple" is going to fade out of the process. You're gonna need a book.

 

Re: A new project...

Bigfitz,

I downloaded the Yamaha Xj650 G Service manual as well as the Hayes Owners workshop manual.

The Hayes manual is proving to be really wordy where the Yamaha Service Manual is more graphic, and I am a visual learner so words don't make much sense sometimes.

I found a youtube channel from one of the forum's members:

http://www.youtube.com/user/mrmaxstorey

This is the best way to compliment the digital version of the service manuals. Watching somebody do it is a whole lot better and makes more sense than reading it (at least for me).

Here is a great one about adjusting valves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3gxT57eoDE

I just got back from the store to get gauges to measure gaps and the new battery is getting a full charge.

 

Re: A new project...

So I got everything hooked, fogged the engine and got some compression numbers...

C1 - 150 psi
C2 - 165 psi
C3 - 130 psi
C4 - 130 psi

The first one I tested on the very first reading was 65 psi and got really worried. I applied more fogging oil and moved on to the rest. When I came back to it it read 130 so I am wondering how much this variation is due to the engine sitting on a shed for 2 years without turning, once some oil was in it was turning a little easier.

Are these good numbers to begin with? I know that the next thing to do is to get the valve gaps adjusted and shimmed properly.

 

Re: A new project...

They're not great, but you might still be ok.

The most important component to a compression test is the difference between cylinders; it shouldn't exceed around 10%, spec for the 650 is 14psi.

The fact that #1 jumped right up to near max, #2 went over spec, and the other two are just above acceptable, I'd say the fogging spray gave you what amounted to a "wet" test, or nearly so.

I would get the valve clearances checked, and see if we're looking at some tight valves, especially on #3 and #4. Then get them in spec, and re-test the compression.

Don't spray any more oil in there, you'll be turning the motor over a bit doing the valves, and by then the fogging oil should have all been distributed, dissipated and/or cleared out a bit so you can get a better baseline test.

Not great but not time to tear into anything major yet.

 

Re: A new project...

Thanks man, I don't know if this matters but I started on C4 and moved down the line, to C1. I am sure by the time I got to C1 the fogging spray worked its way through a lot better, that is why I went back to C4 to retest.

Here is a picture of the spark plugs that were in this motor.

C4 on the left and C1 on the right. They all seem worn evenly and I didn't see any blistering or oil sitting on them but they have been untouched for two years at least.

I will work on the valve shims and retest.

 

Re: A new project...

Inconclusive. Proceed.

 

Re: A new project...

Will do, as soon as I make another trip and get metric hex wrenches. I didn't realized that all I had were SAE. Who came up with the great idea of having different measuring systems?

 

Re: A new project...

Good luck on the project ecologito!

Sounds like I'll be able to learn a lot from you since we're both working on similar phases in our projects! Keep the pics coming! Hungry for the knowledge!

 

Re: A new project...

Ejpt trust me you will not learn a whole lot from me, I am learning by asking a lot questions and absorbing the knowledge from all the great people on this forum. I will share everything I learn along the way and try to document with pictures what I do along the way.

Please keep posting your progress and I am sure we will learn from each other.

My project bike looks like it just got pulled out of the dumpster compared to yours.

 

Re: A new project...

Count yourself lucky that you live now, and not 150 years ago. There used to be no fixed standards for fasteners: nearly every manufacturer used their own proprietary setup (so the customer had to come back the them for replacements).

 

Re: A new project...

If I was living 150 years ago the least of my concerns would be a bolt. I'd go to the blacksmith and get the generic version

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

The Yamaha is pure metric all the way. Stock up; and be sure you get a 19mm socket.

You're going to need a set of allen wrenches (hex keys) and I would recommend at least one 5mm "bit" for your 3/8 drive set, for cover bolts and the like.

You will also need a torque wrench that goes down to "light" settings, 25~250 INCH pounds gives you a good range for all of the 7.2 ft/lb and 11 ft/lb kind of stuff. Most DIY mechanics have a torque wrench that's too heavy for most of the important stuff (although you'll need that one for axle nuts and the like.)

A PURELY metric feeler gauge, instead of an Imperial (American) gauge with metric "equivalents" makes checking your valve clearances easier. K-D Tools' #2274 is widely available. http://www.amazon.com/Tools-2274-Metric ... cenabled=1

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I am either going to borrow allen sockets from a friend or I am gonna have to make a trip to the store and buy my set.

Also on my last trip to Advance Auto I bought these feeler gauges:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... ric+feeler

Very decent price and I learned after watching a video online and the guy had to bend the gauges to make them fit on a tight spot.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

On a side note I haven't done anything on the bike since I had to finish another project.



I just restored this 1930 fan, it is a really cool piece and needed some love. Now I will have a cool spot in the house when it gets warm.

Here is the before and after shot:




If somebody is interested I am willing to sell this bad boy.

Up next... more work on the bike