A new project, the abandoned xj650RJ

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

ecologito,

That shim is not "seated". Are you rotating the engine a couple of times to allow the lobe to seat the replacement shim? (The lobe will "snap" the shim into the bucket). Key Note: You must have a shim in all the valves and remove any bucket holding tools before you rotate the engine.

Gary

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Correct, the shim is not sitting in the bucket, this is what I was dealing when trying to pull the shim out, the whole bucket would pull out and it took me quite a bit of wresting to get it out.

I just realized that I was testing with the wrong feeler gauges, The ones they sell at Advance Auto Parts are useless for this purpose (way to thick to measure such small gaps. I will be ordering another one from amazon that can actually get the job done.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I got my fellers at Advance........just make sure you get the set that is in mm and goes down to .001mm

dave f

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Purely metric feelers (like the K-D 2274) make it much easier.

The bucket wanting to lift up with the shim is one of the drawbacks to using the "zip tie" trick. If you're holding the valve open from below, there's nothing to hold the bucket to the top of the valve, so the bucket is free to lift up with the shim. This is where you sometimes need "three hands."

If you were using the bucket hold-down tool (the "official" method) then the bucket CANNOT come up with the shim since it's being held down by the tool.

Yet another reason the (admittedly frustrating at first) tool makes the job easier (once you get the hang of using it.)

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

It is also possible to use the zip tie to quickly hold the valve open, AND while the bucket is passively sitting down, install the shim tool to just keep the bucket from riding up........

Dave F

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I did use the zip tie method and all I did was to hold down with an allen wrench the shim bucket, it was only one shim that was really tight in there and did not want to come out. Since I am waiting on the mail to deliver the feeler gauges I will start working on removing carbs and the old engine.

I know cleaning the carbs will be a learning process and along one since little details are key on this step.

There is plent yof work to do so all I need is a bit of time to work on it.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Today my baby took a long nap and I had time to work a bit on the bike. Since the new engine is being worked on (paused at the time) I thought about taking the old engine off the frame and start working on the carbs.

There were quite a few bolts to get loose and baby woke up. Before that I got foot pegs off on both sides, and front brackets off. As a good practice I try to put the blots back where they came from, hopefully that way I won't loose them and know where they are supposed to go. On the picture you can see one bracket flipped with the bolts in place and the other one that I am working on.



I can't figure out if there is a way to get the carb and air box out, everything seems pretty tight, I got screws and everything but it does not seem to be a whole of room to pull the carbs back and free them up from the engine.

The only thing holding the engine in place are two bolts and the dive shaft. Hopefully I can get this off soon.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

push the air box to carb boots back into the air box and you will have plenty of room to pull the carbs. Then the engine can come out which will allow air box removal with no issues.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Make sure that you remove the oil filter housing, filter, and bolt. Otherwise, they'll be in the way and you'll end up breaking the fins as you try unsuccessfully to get the engine out.

Dave Fox

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Why do you feel the need to remove the airbox?

The airbox can be loosened and slid back, allowing the carbs to be pulled. That's a normal service procedure even when you're not swapping motors.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I would assume that he is planning to add p*%s. (the server apparently deletes bad words like "pods") I personally prefer the stock airbox over p*%s but that's me.

LOL

Dave F

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I have to agree with these Guy.. its unloved but very sexy flat black hell not so sure... take ur time like big Fitz told me and I'm sure you have seen get a book read it remember it then read again this site will help you a lot and i dont care what the bike needs.. as long there a title and a frame you got a ride... xj bike parts off this site are cheap good an the parts man knows his stuff..

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Thanks swe-eet I sure am getting myself familiar with this bike and looking at reference manuals as well as tons of pictures here and videos on youtube.

Something that I am having a hard time to find is original pictures of my bike, what did it look like in the show room. There are tons of pictures of people adding or getting rid of parts but I would like to see pictures (especially details) of what the bike looked like when it came out of the assembly line. It is hard to figure out what the original looked like since this is such an old model and previous owners have done all sorts of stuff to this bikes.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Just do a Google "Image" search on "82 Yamaha 650 Seca."

The silver bikes with the blue/white stripes are stock 650 Secas.

My bike (original but far from pretty) is one that shows up, too.

UNRESTORED (a "before" pic

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

That's in better condition than the one I just picked up.

Dave F

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Thanks big fits, I have done searches on google but can't figure out what is "stock" and what is modified since it is hard to know what to reference to.

Thanks a lot for your photo, for example I thought I was looking at a gauges cluster for a 1982 xj650RJ to find out that a picture that I was looking at it was from an 1981 550 Seca. They differ a little but I want to figure out what stock was.

Your bike looks pretty good to begin with. I can't find the emblems "650 Seca" anywhere... that is gonna take a while.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Check with XJ4Ever on the sidecover badges. If he can't help. send me a PM.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Ok, so I got my feeler gauges and here are the numbers I have so far by piston and valve clearance.


OUT - 0.06 - 0.05 - 0.06 - 0.06

C4 - 150 psi C3 - 165 psi C2 - 130 psi C1 - 130 psi

IN - 0.16 - 0.00 - 0.06 - 0.06


It seems like most of them are tight but for the most part very similar numbers.

I will be replacing valves soon and get the valve clearance up to specs. This is exciting, finally make some progress on the right direction. I have been reading about carbs a lot and it seems like there are lots of little parts in there so that will take a lot of cleaning and replacing seals, o-rings and such. In the meantime I am keeping my eyes open for missing OEM parts for this bike.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Carbs are a pain however they ain't as hard as they seem take pics use a cupcake pan or something and keep organized. ... I think rick and Fitz both have good Carb write ups and your book for repair like hyanes as a lot of help there to..biggest thing I learned on carbs is one at a time and take as long as u need. The better you do the better shell. Run

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Hopefully you meant "valve shims."

For future reference and to make it easier for everyone trying to help; the cylinders are "numbered" 1-4 from left to right as you sit on the bike. So when any of us refers to the #1 cylinder, we're referring to the left-most one.

Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Correct and correct, I meant valve shims. And yes, I was watching a video on youtube and the guy numbered the cylinders one way and I went with that, once i open the cover I saw the cylinder numbers stamped, good observation.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

be careful with those YouTube videos; there are quite a few "mis-instructions" running around, as you've discovered.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

I am learning that (so far not the hard way), I'll be ordering new shims tonight to get this up to speed.

Once I started putting the data on excel I was curious if it would be helpful for other members of this forum to have a spreadsheet and enter all formulas for shim gaps to the spreadsheet will spit out what size shims are needed any adjustment is required.

Bigfitz, I have one valve gap at 0.16 and the specs call for 0.11 to 0.15 and they seem to get tight overtime. Should I even bother to get the new shim or 0.01 is already to far on the range or "normal"?

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Normally my response would be "in spec is in spec and out is out."

However, in the case of this particular motor and the circumstances you're in, I wouldn't re-shim tighter for .01mm. I'd leave intake #1 and see where it's at after you've put a few hundred miles on the bike.

The super-tight ones are the concern. Glad you checked? #2 intake is.

One other note: because of the way this bike sat, etc., plus your findings, I think it's safe to assume the valves were ignored. So consider this the "3000 mile check." But DON'T wait 5000 more miles for the next one, like you could on a new motor. Once the bike is up and running, I'd re-check after 2K ~ 2500 miles. Then start your 5K intervals.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Will do Master Shifu

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Eco---

I'm in the middle of doing a complete carb rebuild/resto on my 650rj right now. The rack is TOTALLY torn down.....not a single piece connected to any other piece. If you need a picture or measurement for carb stuff, let me know and I'll take a shot of it for you.

I'll get the shim pool out this evening when I get home and check on the ones you asked about.

dave Fox

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

A lot of times the primary chain guide falls apart. And a piece will get lodge in the gears, and you can't shift in to second. The gears are very robust so I doubt that second gear is broke just jammed. (ask me how I know) But you are on the right track so I don't suggest tearing the in bike engine apart. Just keep it and it will be a good project for the future.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

razz, I think you may have intended the above response for a different thread?

Eco, add an "R" to the 650 in your thread title... "abandoned xj650R" it is a Seca after all.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Fitz, The in bike engine does not have 2nd gear or wont go in to 2nd gear. It could have a chunk of chain guide jammed in the gear selector forks. Causing it not to go into 2nd gear.

 

Re: A new project, the abandoned xj650...

Thanks Dave, any photos of settings, or really small details that I may want to look for when opening carbs would be much appreciated.

I am also trying to get myself familiar with all the pieces' names since there seems to be a lot of them.

 

meh.....once you get used to them, the pieces aren't that many, and you'll be able to recognize any of them in a second.

Heading out to get the shim boxes now............

Dave

 

Two days of rain and I have not been able to work on the bike since it is on the driveway. I noticed that the air filter cover bolt had a socket attached to it and could not get it off, I will spray it with wd40 or heat it up to get it off. It's funny that the bike cake with a socket, my friend had it for two years and didn't even notice.

That tells me that no maintenance was done on this bike... who knows how long it sat before I got it and started trying to bring back to life.

I know for sure it is getting new brakes (pads and lines).

 

COULD be that the socket is welded on. could be it's pounded on so tight....

In any event..... if worse comes to worst, get a grinder and grind the head off. The housing will pop off, the bolt will come out easily now, and the housing is easy to find and replace...there's plenty of them around.

Dave F

 

I had a few minutes to spend on the bike. I got the bolts from the drive shaft off, now the rear wheel turns freely... hmm I believe that was the only thing holding the engine in place, now I need to figure out how to get that engine off the frame by myself. So far the carbs are still attached. The boots will not let it go, maybe a little more elbow grease!

 

You need to get the carbs off and out of the way before anything else.

As for extracting the mill by yourself: once you have the motor ready to come out, you can gently lay the whole mess on its right side and then lift the frame off the motor.

 

Thanks,

I was into something, I got the carbs off, it really took a lot of pulling to get the sucker out.


When I got the carbs off I was looking at them and flipped them upside down, a greenish liquid came out, it looked like a watered down antifreeze, is there anything else supposed to be in there other than gasoline?

I tried laying the bike on the right side after I got the carbs off but for some reason it keeps getting stuck on all the brackets (i did remove the front brackets and oil filter to make more room) I will lay it on the side and wiggle the frame out of it.

 

Double-check and be sure ALL the wires, ground straps (back of the motor) sensor wires, etc., are unplugged. Looks like the #3 plug wire is still on tight. You'll want to tie the spark plug wires to the frame, up and out of the way.

Slide the airbox back in place, put its upper mounting bolts in place, and slide it all the way back and tighten, so it's out of your way. Pull the boots out.

 

I won! After a long fight and a lot of wiggling that sucker gave up and came off



Now is time to rest and start cleaning this nasty frame and the carbs. Thanks for your help, and hints fitz and fiddles.

 

My next question will be, do you have a favorite or "best" technique to get the new engine in the frame?

 

Same way it came out.

 

Eco....I know you put a lot of energy and effort into getting the engine out, but trust me-- after you've pulled a few of them, you start to realize that while the clearance is really snug- the engine will come straight out and go straight back in. If you're laying it on the ground, the frame will lift right off when you get the angles juuuuust right. Putting it back in is the same thing.....just take it slow and steady, ease it into place.

The carb's green blood-- well, what that is, is really really old gas that has about 13 seconds to go before it turns to a hard, black, thick varnish in the carbs and seizes everything up forever. I HIGHLY recommend that you pull the bowls and soak everything down with pbblaster, Kroil, carb spray, carb dip, brake cleaner, kerosene, etc...... anything to start re-dissolving it so it can't harden up on you--and get those carbs apart and clean them! Again, if you want pics, let me know.....I just put carb body 2 in the dip for the night, 1 is all done and ready to start reassembly (except for the throttle shaft seals and all the o-rings).

Your shims will go out monday.....we got socked with a snow storm last night and this morning and by the time we got cleared to the road, the PO was closed.

Dave Fox

 

Thanks for the info about the green stuff, carbs are currently soaking in carb cleaner. I will wait until I get the new valve shims in and clean that motor before I mount it to the frame.

The center stand has been ordered...

I realized that I had the bracket for the original horns but have no horns, I will either look for it on the bay or in the forum.

 

I have regular car horns off a ford explorer. Gets peoples attention real quick. Less than $wp at autozone.

 

Eco,

the horns are going to be the standard horns for the xj550, 650, or 750 maxims. Probably the seca's, too, but I know they are the same as above. I have an extra that I just picked up.....as I get mine straightened out I'll see if I can get the extra one working again if you need...

Dave F

 

Thanks Dave,

I found a guy with a few parts for an 81 Maxim, I am trying to figure out if I have any potential costumers for them or maybe trade for parts that I will need.

He has some nice parts, I wish I was rebuilding the bike that he has parts for. Take a look on the for sale forum.

Pepe

 

Ok,

Today I got the shims needed for the engine that will go into the frame. I only need a couple of days without rain and a baby that will cooperate and go to bed early.

 

They got there quicker than I thought they would with the holiday!

 

Another finding was the brake pedal, when I took it off the screw inside the clamp that holds it in place was broken in three parts, I was able to remove the screw head and the bottom, there is still a portion of the screw inside that I will either have to drill out or chuck it and try to get another pedal. The chrome seems to be in good shape it only needs some rust removed... we'll see.

 

Soak it with krill or pb blaster then drill it and e-z out it after heating. If you drill from the opposite side of the bolt from the head, the drillmay just catch it and turn it right out, too.

Dave fox