A new project, the abandoned xj650RJ

oops, that should have read "Kroil", not Krill............that would stink--who in their right mind would soak their bikes with fish food?!?!? LOL

Dave Fox (now back at home so I don't have to type on the tiny little mobile screen)

 

Not a good day here, I need a cold one.

I got my shims, I started measuring and somehow everything is off compared to my original measurements. Now it seems like 7 out of 8 valves were within specs with the original valve shims... agh!!! I just walked away and remeasure and figure it out later.

When I came home found a packet, I ordered a center stand from ebay
http://www.ebay.com/soc/itm/220434061468

I am trying to figure out where it goes and either I am just really mad about the valves and can't think straight or this stand was mis labeled and it is not for the 650RJ.

 

I was frustrated between shim valve clearance and baby not giving me a break. I figured out how to mount the center stand so it was all right and is what I needed. The current stand needs a bit of cleaning and maybe a fresh coat of paint. I may keep it off for now until I get the engine back in the frame. I know it should be out of the way but is one less thing that I need to worry about.

I picked some turtle wax chrome polish and rust remover and tried it in the brake pedal. It seems to work great with grime and rust. Where the chrome has been chipped there is no way around it. I will be doing a lot of cleaning later... maybe in 16 years when my baby can drive herself to her own functions

 

I just need to go to bed, this is what happened when I tried to drill out the broken bolt in the brake pedal




On top of that while doing this the drill bit was slipping from the chuck so I held it tight with one hand and the brake pedal flung full speed onto my face. Now I have a broken drill bit and a brake pedal with a piece of bolt half drilled and a piece of drill bit inside the hole.

I will call it a day and tomorrow will be a better one.

 

At least you didn't finish the statement with ".....and a broken nose with half a brake pedal sticking out of it".

Dave F

 

++++1 on that. Also enjoy your family while they are young. Because before you know it they will pretend that you don't exists, and you would be wishing to have all the moments that you have now, back.

 

I did have a great time with the family today.

You should see my chick bone, it looks like a Hollywood actor who is about to OD on botox :cry:

 

I can imagine.........

Quick update on my 650rj......carb rack is lightly re-assembled now except for the slide assemblies. Everything else is cleaned and back together loosely while waiting til I can order the throttle-shaft seals, and fuel o-rings.
Boy, it sure looks a far sight better that it did! I'm probably going to order up some nice caps for the rack, too. these are pretty nasty.....some PO sprayed black paint over the rust pitting. But, the nice thing is that under all the goo, stain, old gas, etc..... everything came apart well, and the only thing that I damaged was one bowl drain screw.

Hey, keep me posted on the shims......if you need to swap any sizes back, that's no prob. Suggestion.....make sure that after you put the new shim in, you rotate the cams around a couple times to make sure that the new shim has snapped down into the recess and is fully seated before taking a test measurement.

Dave F

 

Glad to hear you had time to work on your carbs, I sorta had the day off but let's forget about today. I am working tomorrow and Sunday so probably not a whole lot of time to work on the carbs or the valve shims.

I am really excited about this bike and really can't wait to hear the engine going to feel like some progress has been done. I am sure take the time to get everything double checked and done right will pay off at the end of the day.

Time to hit the hay and I will take some pictures of the frame when it gets cleaned and the parts that I've got on the mail so far.

 

Another full day at work so not much time to work on the bike but yesterday I came home and it was like Christmas all over again.



I got some good looking turn signal lights and original horns to go it. The gauges are not from a 650RJ but I think they are really cool and will do for now until I can find the original speedometer to restore the cluster I have for it.

 

All those parts are for the 85/86 xj700/750 airheads. The gauges we've already talked about.

The signals- the stems are different than on your bike, so you'll need to make sure that you check your wiring connections. Also, you'll need to do some fabbing or customizing for mounting them. The originals were on a long chrome stem, and it has a square base that fits into a square opening in the rubber grommet. The lenses, of course, are different. Personally, I like the look of these lenses better than the older lenses. Actually, my PERSONAL preference is for the clear lenses with the amber bulb in them........that's what's going to be on my 700X when it's done.

The horns-- they should bolt right on, but the covers are a little different. Otherwise, they'll be fine.

The brake pedal-- You may have an issue with the pedal,you may have interference issues. The 650 pedal is longer and a flatter curve. The airhead pedal is shorter and has a much more acute bend. I'll try to compare the two when I go back out to the shop later this evening.

dave F

Keep up the fun!

 

You are correct, I looked at the pedals and this one is different (shape and size). This is just not fun, I wish parts were interchangeable and stuff would fit multiple bikes. I am just learning that this is not like replacing speakers on my car

This may take forever if I have to wait for the right parts to show up on ebay.

 

Well....there's a lot of parts that will interchange between many of the bikes, but you and I have just been able to acquire one of a handful of the rare ones, so we have to just pull up our big boy's diapers and deal with it. It's easier for me, only because I've been playing around with these xj's of different sorts for about a dozen years (others have been on them much longer) and I have learned that there are parts that are easy to get, and there are others that aren't...........just gonna hafta wait sometimes.

Now, to the pedal----

I went and did a side-by-side comparo. Here's what I find. Interestingly, the overall curve isn't the issue. Those are relatively close. the pedal 'pad' is about an inch more forward on the xj700 pedal. That's not the issue either. the ISSUE is that the 650 seca pedal has a small, flat landing welded to it, and there is a threaded hole that a bolt and locking nut get mounted on. That bolt is adjustable to allow pedal adjustment. that bolt bumps up against the footrest mount. The xj700 pedal does not have that boss on it, and will then only stop when it bumps up all the way against the footrest mount. In that case, the pedal 'pad' is waaaay to high to comfortably reach, and could even be a problem as your toe would probably end up under the pad when you're riding. If you modify the pedal by welding a flat boss onto it, that would solve the problem. Just make sure to copy the position of that in relation to the center of the pivot hole. It sounds like a lot, but it's not a difficult mod in this instance.....

Hope that helps you some........

Dave F

 

Thanks Dave,

I guess I didn't realize when you said that the XJ650RJ was a "rare" bike that it was going to be that hard to find the parts that we are looking for.

Thanks for the details about the pedal and the mounts for the turn lights, I guess I will figure it all out once I start putting the bike all together.

I will post pictures with more details about this process.

Have a great week and Happy 2013, it seems like the New Year will bring at least 2 RJs back to life

Pepe

 

Yep, when someone says 'that xj is 'rare' ' , you need to read it as "that's a nice xj you got there....it's one of the more rare ones.....you're gonna have a hard time finding certain pieces......could be just a couple, or it could be just a bout everything..........have fun!".

It could be a 1-model bike, or it could be low availability bike, or it could be unobtainium......any which way you look at it, you're gonna hafta search.

Examples:

my 650 Maxim- parts galore, I have two others that are going to NJ, along with a whole "boatload" of parts. I'm not worried about losing parts.....I'll find more of them. Easily. Heck, I'll probably have a new 'boatload' by the time these go, and he's probably gonna end up with more parts that we originally talked about, simply cuz they're going to keep coming in.

My 700 airhead and my MaximX - not as many made as the maximX, though the X is more difficult to find parts for. Go figure. I only have one parts bike for the airhead, and actually once I find a replacement frame, I'll rebuild that one. The X--well, I've been collecting parts for a few years so that I can build one from scratch. Yup, started with a bare nekkid frame.

the 900's.....only about 1000 or so came to the states to begin with, as they were shut out quickly with the "Harley Tariff". MANY parts are turning into unobtainium, I have several of the bikes, a couple other guys have several parts bikes, still...there's only about 60 or so registered on the XJ900RK Seca Database for USA-Delivered bikes. One of mine happens to be the lowest registered number to date.

Now the 650rj seca non-turbo--basically a European bike that 'fell off the ship', as someone else said (awesome line, LOL). Available here for only 1 year, available in Canada for 2 years, I believe. Many of the parts were model-specific, except for the engine and related parts......and some of the other parts that you and I have already talked about.

Then.......there are the anomalies, like the carbs on mine.......bowls only have one drain port, the other side that most have as a blanked out port (can be drilled and tapped if needed)is not part of my bowls. There are a few others that have turned up with the same thing, but most have the two-port bowls (one to use, and the other for'just in case it's needed'). Then there's the question of why do these carbs have the FINE mixture screws instead of the COARSE mixture screws?.....etc......

Then there was a discussion awhile back on the 700's that were not California models, but the carbs had the bosses for where the other ports would be, while others didn't have them........

It's all part of the fun. Don't let the lack of availability get to you. What I do is simple: I try to find a part, and if I need to wait it out then I come up with some reasonable mod or substitute that will work and look good until the correct part does come along. I have waited sometimes 2 or 3 years for a part to show up. It's all good.

IN the meantime, whenever you find that you need a part, PM me and I'll see what I've got. I tend to hold onto parts that I replaced, rather then toss them. I'd rather see a part be able to be repaired and used than thrown away.

I just came across a baggie of parts, and found the missing seat hinge....now both are on, and I just need to find the pins. the worst thing for me is going to be finding original exhaust parts. The po threw away the original pipes and mufflers because 'they were getting a little rusty and one of the mufflers was going bad', and he put on a 4-into-1 exhaust (yuck). Hey, anyone got a decent exhaust for an 82 XJ650rj that they'd want to trade for a nice 4/1?

Have a great day tomorrow!

Dave Fox

 

Eco, Dave isn't kidding when he says that he has a "collection" of parts. I was at his workshop and was simply in awe of all the parts that he had collected and some of the repair work to them, WOW. Amazing results. That 700-x that he built from a frame. Yup it is as awe-inspiring as it sounds. There have been parts for my 650H Maxim that I have no idea if I will ever see come across e-bay or CL. Dave not only knows the part, but in some cases he has 2-3. May have to start bribing him myself. But like he says, don't be discuraged, the parts will show up.

Happy New Year to both of Ya!

 

The thing to keep in mind in regard to 650R is that it was a completely different bike than the USA-market Maxims or even other Secas for that matter.

The 650 Seca is a Euro-spec bike that they brought here for one year (two in Canada.) NOT A LOT interchanges with anything else (although the front fender is the same as the 550 Secas, if you want a chrome front fender...)

I think you're also going to find that your "new" tach is electronic; the 650R has a mechanical tach.

What you're learning the hard way is the "Yamaha family resemblance" issue. A LOT of the parts on the XJ series (and in fact all '80s Yamahas, regardless of number of cylinders/displacement) LOOK the same; but upon closer inspection, they only resemble each other but are actually quite different.

There were no less than FIVE different front brake calipers used on the XJ series; all either slightly or drastically different.

Turn signals may LOOK the same, but often mount differently.

If you're not sure; check the fiche http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/c/yamaha/parts or post a question. (Or do what Dave does, have me run out in the garage and look at my stock 650R.)

 

Yes, the 700 tach is electronic.

Osprey.......you ain't seen nuthin'..........I didn't show you the rest of them. They're all asleep somewhere else. I didn't want to wake them up, so we didn't drive over there. They get pretty mean if I disturb them in the winter. One tried to bite me one time.

Dave F

 

Thanks osprey,

By obviously Dave knows what he's talking about and when he talks about boatloads of parts tells me that he has quite a collection of parts not just bikes. Look at his signature, that is bigger than my will.

Obviously that collection of parts did not show up overnight so I will have to be patient and follow Dave's example; modify and work with what I have until the right part shows up (and hope that Dave does not scoop it out before I do) :lol:

 

I need a set of 650R head pipes that aren't completely rusted. Riigght. And so do both of you plus a couple dozen other guys, some of whom aren't even members.

I also need a rear brake pedal, one that hasn't been bent and straightened a half dozen times.

Other than the 900, and the Turbo, the naturally-aspirated 650 Seca is one of the most difficult to find certain parts for. The only reason there's any hope at all for any of us is that they sold way more of them than the aforementioned bikes.

Be glad you're not trying to restore an XJ900R. Or find a set of 550 Seca mufflers.

 

I just picked up a set of 550 seca mufflers

 

and idk if im just not aware of these all being mis-listed, but there seem to be a few that appear to be in decent shape:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=se ... l&_sacat=0

 

Ok,

So today I opened the carbs just to find out buckets of nastiness, I can't believe this bike was running at some point, and if it was I bet it was not even close to ok and far from smooth.



I do have very large can or carb cleaner, the whole thing has been sittiing on it and now all the parts and pieces are getting dipped on the can of cleaner.

I will let that "cure" overnight and tomorrow hopefully will have time to get everything apart hoping that I can get it all back together.

All the gaskets look in great shape but you can see all the gunk inside the carbs. I am curious if this were running a charcoal engine because it looks like the inside of an old chimney. 8O

 

Yummy! I don't know what your talking about but those things look pretty clean to me (Sarcasim... obviously).

You mentioned that the gaskets and seals look to be ok, then you mention that the whole thing is in the carb cleaner. Make sure any rubber that is in the carb cleaner is replaced. That stuff will just eat rubber. You may already know this but I wanted to just throw it out there as a reminder.

 

NOOO!!!

Unless you plan to break the rack and FULLY disassemble the carbs including removing the butterflies (as in, replace the throttle shaft seals) DO NOT submerge them.

The throttle shaft seals are trapped in the carbs; and your carb cleaner can ruin them (if they happen to still be serviceable.)

ONLY submerge FULLY STRIPPED, individual carbs. Soaking an assembled rack is just a way of making a full tear-down inevitable. And a good way to drive yourself crazy when you can't tune it afterward, despite the fact that you did a "great job" on the carbs.

 

Hmmm.... well the good news is that the rack is not fully submerged, only the bottom portion is (where the floats are and all that gunk in the picture). The rest of the rack is off the cleaner. Hopefully I didn't mess it up more than it already was.

 

Well......now we know what to what out for each other for!

Actually, I've been having an easier time finding parts for the 900R's.

Eco, I've been collecting parts for 12 years. My approach has been simple:

Look for local dead/orphaned/abandoned/abused/etc...... xj's, regardless of model, and pick them up cheap to use as donors. I don't care whether there is a title or not. If there is, great.....I have a platform to build from. If there isn't it's strictly for parts. Then, I part the whole thing out, saving the best parts for my own builds, the next level parts get saved to build for other people, face to face sales or XJ groups that I'm in, then the next level is stuff that goes to ebay for cheap. The bottom two levels are the parts that are for either give-aways to fill an emergency need, and then the level at which I don't even save the part as no one would want it anyway. The only caveat to anything being thrown away, is that if it's a rare or obscure part, I'll save it-regardless. Someone will need it to copy, rebuild, restore, repair, modify, etc......

The list that you see as my current bikes is either bikes that I ride or am getting ready to ride. I don't have the parts bikes listed on there, nor the piles of parts that are squirrelled away all over the place. Most of my parts inventory is going to another list member in a year or so. Those may become available again, or they may become new bikes. In the meantime, I keep searching out more donors. That, in a nutshell, is how I came across this 650rj. So, more parts have come in to fill some of the empty spaces already, along with some more parts bikes.

The harder issue is finding the place to 'hide' everything so it always looks like the same amount of parts and bikes...............to SWMBO. LOL

Happy New Year to you!

Dave F

 

Keep in mind that there's no guarantee you won't need throttle shaft seals anyway. Just no sense guaranteeing you will.

 

Eco.....I just saw the last post from Fitz and from you (my reply was to an earlier post that just came in for me)

As Fitz said......only dunk them if you are literally dis-assembling the whole thing. I personally dunk each piece overnight....or longer if needed. BUT no rubber parts go in. All the metal parts go in the basket, and then the carb body goes in on top of the pile. I do one carb at a time.

Here's a suggestion.....don't leave the brass parts in too long or they turn a reddish/maroon color that you need to buff off. also, I try not to mix the brass parts and the steel parts--sometimes I get a funny oxidation color where they contact each other. Each rack will take multiple dips:

1. all the brass bits
2. all the steel bits
3. each body, one at a time
4. the rails and the bolts

The needles and the slide assembly parts are all done by hand.

Once everything is done, then new fuel rail o-rings, and new throttle-shaft seals, and mixture screw o-rings go in. Some fuel bowl drain screws also have o-rings, but not all bikes have those, FYI.

Again, as you're doing the carbs, if you get stumped, pm me or call me. I'll help you through it.

You'll be surprised just how clean the rack will become if you take your time.

DO be careful when you go to extract the float pins. The towers break EASILY. I would suggest soaking them good in PB, or Kroil, or something overnight. Then I use a super pointy nailpunch to LIGHTLY drive the pins out.....make sure that you support the back side of the post at the far end of the float pin so you don't break it off. Even better, is a tool designed to grab the tower, and push the pin sort of like a pliers action. I don't have one, but the guy who does sled carbs has one......nifty, I'm gonna get one SOMEday.

Feel free to ask if you get stuck.

dave F

 

Thanks a lot Dave, I feel like a true rookie trying to figure all this out. This is an overwhelming learning experience. I knew that I was going to mess things up and that is ok with me as long as I can learn how to put things together and get them right.

It is also a little annoying that I don't have time to work on this because baby needs a bottle or diaper changed, etc.

I guess it would be handy to buy the rebuilt kits for the carbs:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/1810529197 ... s&var=sbar

 

I think the dip is unnecessary. Keep the rack together and tear the parts down per Rick's instructions. Rick's muffin tin idea was great. Two dozen muffin spaces held all the parts.

Your parts look to be in good shape aside from the goo. The goo can be cleaned. In my opinion it is easier to clean each part by hand with a brush and small amounts of cleaner. It is also less time. I did all my parts in a couple of hours.

I boiled my carb bowls in lemon juice.

The only thing new I needed was new gaskets. Everything else was the 30-year old original parts.

 

Good point on the parts. Cheapo "carb kits" off eBay have been known to frustrate many a member, when quite often the original parts were OK.

Best practice is to disassemble, clean thoroughly and carefully inspect. Then order the parts you NEED, and get quality parts either from Yamaha or from Len. There are a lot of poor-quality "pattern" parts running around that don't work for squat, like throttle shaft seals that aren't the correct cross section, crappy float needles, etc.

False economy.

 

Seriously. Nothing but one large flat paper gasket. Traced out the pattern of the carb bowl gaskets and cut them with an Exacto knife. Everything else was original carb parts cleaned and brushed. Yamaha made the parts to last.

 

If you're going to do the carbs RIGHT, since it had been left in the condition you got it, play it safe and tear the carbs ALL the way down. Clean every part, replace every o-ring and seal. It does a few things for you....

1. you KNOW the carbs are DONE
2. you KNOW the seals are DONE
4. you KNOW every passage is clear
5. you KNOW the rack itself
6. you KNOW which parts were replaced

You'll end up with mostly the original parts except for the soft stuff.

In addition to the parts I said to replace before, I'd also recommend that you replace the fuel inlet needle with the metal-tip needles, not the rubber tipped ones.

Personal opinion.

Talk to you soon.....

Dave F

 

Eco,

x1 what BF, HC and especially what Hogfiddles said. In that condition I would do a complete teardown. Once they are back together whatever issues you may have with them it will be a lot easier to find and fix it (them). Good Luck...you can do it.

Gary

 

Don't worry about feeling like a rookie.........that's the beginning of the learning curve. don't let it feel overwhelming. It's not like there's no one to ask. There's PLENTY of experience here, so if you get stuck, stumped, scared, unsure, overwhelmed, confused, etc......just ASK us. If need be, we may ask for a pic of what you're looking at so we can see it from your perspective. Whatever the case, we WILL get you back on track. No worries.

Dave Fox

BTW, I sent you a txt.....I do have the shim you asked about.

 

Thanks a lot Dave. Since it seems like there are some unreliable carb kits with either less that good parts or not the right fit for the application. Where can I buy a reliable kit to get the job done?

 

Get the parts right from Len Chacal. Reach him at: info@xj4ever.com

Dave F

 

Hmm... Is it just me or this bike is what mine should look like and they mislabeled the ad

http://gainesville.craigslist.org/mcd/3492182249.html

 

You are correct sir. That is a quite clean 650RJ (yes, 1982) minus its tank badges and with a recovered seat.

It may even be titled as an '84; depending on the state, bikes sometimes got titled as being from the year they were sold. (Or in Michigan, whatever the dealership put on the paperwork.) A lot of 650 Secas got sold in '83 and '84 as "leftovers." But it's an '82.

Somebody needs to wave $800 cash under the guy's nose and rescue it.

 

Yup, that's it. And look at that! It's got the standing handles, the right mufflers, etc....! Uh-oh--the seat tail has been replaced or repainted an ugly black.

Print off some picture of that, and post them on your wall. Tell yourself your's will look like that someday. Don't worry about when that day is.....it'll get there.

Dave Fox

 

I wish I could "save" it. I am also getting good at searching 8)

 

Funny, for a rare bike........let's see-- I found mine in November, acquired it in December. You found your's about the same time. Suddenly several more pop up on the list. Then, a few show up on Craigslist. Guess it's not as rare anymore. LOL

Kind of like when I got my 900. Shortly after finding mine, several others found one, or at least started posting about them. I took over the 900RK Database for USA-delivered bikes. There were about 8 or so numbers. Now I have close to 65 registered. 5 of those are mine, another 8 or so are 'ronnie' 's. so almost 25% of the registered bikes are owned by 2 xjbikes listmembers.

Ok, back to work.......................

Dave F

 

We think that things are rare until you really focus on finding them. I hope parts for our RJs are common at least until we are done putting them together. Then they can all go back to hibernate

 

So today it was rainy and I could not work outside, besides our little was was fuzzy all day and did not have a minute to spare. Here is the culprit of my project moving slowly:




I only had some time to polish one of the covers in the engine that is getting up to speed.



I am sure 2013 has great things in the works...

 

Cute little baby, I think the bike can sit for awhile. Kids grow up too fast savor every moment. I have a grandson and I love it when he comes over. Believe me the shop goes dark in a hurry when he is on his way over.

MN

 

....and the brakes so it doesn't just run well, it will stop well, too.

He's doing just what you said.....getting it to run well. He's doing the carbs, and the shims right now.

I'm doing the carbs, shims, brakes, tires, repairing/restifying the gauges, the wire harness, headlight, tires, side panels, and misc stuff. I'm not going to re-paint the tank right away, That will be later.

I have the luxury of being able to work on that over the winter, since I'm not going to be taking it out of the shop anytime soon----two and a half feet of snow on the ground between my shop and the road. So......little by little each day, and a lot of sled riding the 'ease the pain'.

Dave F

 

That's the plan, get the new engine on and running. Like Dave said I am getting shim valves done, and cabs cleaned. Once everything is on the frame I will get the brakes done. The goal is to get it running (properly), after that I will start working on the body (big dent on the gas tank, gauges, and all the other stuff.

I have had this bike for only one month and I have done some decent progress with my limited time. The biggest improvement I have done is my knowledge base, I have been looking at a couple of manuals, and reading a lot on this forum.

 

Manuals? We don't need no stinkin' manuals................

 

Hey Eco........

The YICS cover is incorrect for your bike. You should have PLAIN engine end covers.

That being said.....If you're going to restore that cover, do two things:

Sand it down farther to get rid the the remaining divots/dark spots; and second, Len now has replacement YICS badges. Pull the old one out, clean up the recess and attach the new one. That will make a world of difference. Then tag it, bag it, and save it for a rainy day.

Dave F