A new project, the abandoned xj650RJ

Thanks a lot!

 

And.... done! I finally got the last valve shim and now all of the are within spec.

The next step is going to be to get the starter back on the engine and test compression. I am hoping to get that done tomorrow, I already have a battery fully charged waiting for the task.

UPDATE: today I email the shipper that is moving the parts bike for me. He had a family emergency and will not get to it until the end of the month... I will have to wait two more weeks but that is ok, I have plenty of things to do with all the parts I have on hand.

 

Now I am a bit puzzled. I closed the engine after getting all the valve shim clearances within specs, got the starter attached and tested compression. All numbers went down compared to the first test, They are all between 110 and 125 on the 750 engine. I will read and check what "normal" is.

Normal pressure should be 156 and the numbers seem quite a bit low, not sure if this is because the engine has not been used in a couple of years or it needs a major overhaul...

 

This is the 750 that I am currently hoping to get in the frame.

 

It is not unusual for a motor that has be sitting to show lower compression numbers.

With all cylinders in the 110-125 range. I would continue onward to get the engine in the bike, and running again. The compression numbers will most likely stabilize after a bit of running.

Ghost

 

Thanks a lot for the input Ghost. That is what I was hoping for now that I have plenty of parts to get this bike up and running (and even a few spare electric components).

 

While you still have the engine out of the frame.

Pull the clutch to make sure the plates are not stuck together, and give them a good soak in fresh oil.

Ghost

 

Is this a common problem? I guess this is relatively simple task..?

 

Wow ecologito! You're really coming along with things! Thanks again for the airbox link you sent me. I'm not sure if I'm going to get one or make my own, we'll see. I'm certainly getting some aircleaner joints from chacal today as soon as I get the quote.

So, what is your end goal for your bike? Keeping it stock or changing the look of it?

Best wishes bro!

 

I agree with MiGhost

Dave F

 

Well... just like any project there are surprises waiting for me around the corner. Since I am at home I decided to take the carbs apart and figure out what is inside and how "the magic" happens.

After having breakfast and saving the egg plastic container as parts organizer I started taking things off, in what seemed to me the right order.

To my surprise two of the four floats were stuck, movement.. the third one was a bit loose but not totally free, the fourth one was totally free. That was the worst one. I realized that the post where the floats attach to the rack has been "fixed" before. Not really, it was linda set in place but does not seem like a great fix.

So my question is, is there a way to actually solder this little post or is this rack doomed and I should wait for the donor bike and hope that the carbs are in better shape?



And the great mechanic who "fixed" this...



I was really excited about getting this going

 

The RACK isn't doomed, you just need a replacement carb body. If it's that gnarly, it's going to likely need to come completely apart for new throttle shaft seals anyway.

Or, make that your "parts" rack.

 

Oooooh, Mommy.....look at the pretty green colors! It looks like springtime!

Hey Eco..........yes it's possible to repair--you need to find someone that is an excellent machinist. The post can be eliminated, the broken surface machined flat, then a covetail is cut, then a new aluminum post is machined and made to fit. The hole for the float pin must be exact, and then you'll be all set. By the time you do that, hopefully you've not paid too much because your machinist is hopefully a friend who won't soak you.

Otherwise, your best bet is to clean the rest of the carbs and when the other bike arrives, you can take that rack and re-do it, OR open that rack and find out if there is a broken carb there, too. Either way, unless the broken carb happens to be the same one, you'll be set after some work.

Swap out the carb body that you need,and rebuild the set, or rebuild the donor bike set.

Now, if the donor bike rack is a good rack, let me know and I may still have a carb body for you, depending on which body you need. There's three different ones on YOUR rack. #1, #2/#3, and #4. Let me know what you need, and I'll take a look. I'm not going to break a good rack, but who knows what is in the parts racks...............

Dave F

 

Thanks a lot guys. I will keep cleaning all the parts on this rack and will break it to give it a great clean.

I am hoping that the parts bike has carbs in good shape so I can rebuild that one as well.

Dave, let me know if you have a spare carb body to replace the one that is limping on my rack(I believe is #4). I will send you the shim valve back tomorrow.

I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate all your help.

 

I guess this happens more often than I would've thought. I almost bought a rack for parts just to find out upon further inspection of the pictures that the exact same part was broken on this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170971610503?it ... 23&vxp=mtr

When I told my buddy that I may have this bike running by the summer I think I took a good guess of how long this whole project was going to take, especially with all the surprises.

 

Ejpt, I have decided that I am going to end up with almost enough parts to put two bikes together so the original one on this thread is not going to look stock. The donor bike will turn into a stock 650rj once I find a frame (or bond this one).
Here is what I am planning for the current bike:

 

Eco,

This one's going to be a good. Keep it up.

Gary

 

Eco, it's not an uncommon problem with the carbs........reason:

The float towers are not a structurally strong part. If the float pin is sticky, people tend to get a hammer and try to drive it out. One shot with a hammer might move the pin in one tower and the other tower breaks and the pin is now still stuck in a tower that is still stuck to the end of the float pin.

A safer wayt to do it is to make sure to support the float tower before attempting to drive the pin out. I put it against the edge of my table saw and then carefully line up a very thin nail punch. A few really light taps usually does the job.

I'll take a look and see if I have an extra #4 tomorrow when I get home.

Dave Fox

 

I am wondering if the gear puller from my remote control planes will fit over the tower to push the pins.. two of the pins I have seem to be stuck big time and that is why the floats are frozen as well. if it works this may be the safest way to free up the pins.

Here is a picture of the tool:

 

Before trying to force those remaining float pins out. Soak them good with carb cleaner, or penetrating oil (Kroil, PBblaster). Then let then sit for a while ti loosen up the dried up gunk that is locking the pins in place.

That deffinately is the #4 carb body in the pic above.

Ghost

 

You''ll get the float pins loose before that even fits.

I do not have a good #4 carb body.

However, even if the pins a stuck, soak them down with Kroil and/or PB Blaster. I have made mixes of PB, Kroil, and carb spray, and while keeping everything really wet I start trying to get the float to move with careful wiggling. Once I can free up the float, I can get the pin out. Sometimes the pin will start to rotate in the towers as you move the float. That indicates that the towers are not stuck now, but the center of the float still is. Just leep working at it, till things seem loose. Now, use the super fine nail punch, and don't forget to support the tower. Reminder......it's obvious, but easy to not think about---make sure that you are supporting the tower that has the pin head against it and drive from the opposite end. Don't try and drive the pin's head through. AGain, easy mistake..................

Sometimes I find that I have to get the pin to move out just a hair, then turn it over and tap it back in. Doing that a few times helps get the fluid solutions to work horizontally into the joints as well. Go SLOW and take your time. You'll be fine as long as you don't rush, get impatient, or heavy-handed.



Dave F

 

I had very good results with a solution 50-50% acetone and ATF (automatic transmission fluid) to loosen a wide variety of things. It is very fluid so it actually penetrates easily wherever it is physically possible, but also a bit "oily" so it lubricates the parts.. Only problem is you have to store it in a tight glass or a metal container, acetone is volatile and would melt plastics.

 

That would do it too.

Sorry, Mighost, didnt' see you had already said all that!!

Dave F

 

Eco
Do not go looking for carbs just yet.

Let me look at my spare 750 racks this weekend to see if I have a rebuildable rack. We might just be able to take care of the broken carb, and the jetting issue at the same time.

Ghost

 

No problem Dave.

I think that I slid it in as you were still typing. :lol:

Ghost

 

Thanks a lot man, I truly appreciate it since I am running out of $ for the time being on this project. I can't wait to return the favor to all the forum members.

Wait, I do have a friend who brews his own beer and is always looking for "beta" testers

 

Hey Eco....while YOU'RE looking at parts, can you check to see kf you happen to have an extra LEFT side standing handle? I was sent a nice left handle, picked up a right handle on ebay, and when I went to put them together it turns out my left handle was already a right handle.

So....I have two rights, still need a left. If you have an extra left and need a right, we could swap................. I also have my gauge cluster back together/restored now, so have some extra gauge stuff, too...

Dave F

 

The parts bike will not be here until Friday next week, I believe that one has the side standing handles but the one I am working on does not. I am talking to a guy on CL that may be sending me a set of side panels and seat for close to nothing. His bike does have the side standing handles and he is going to chop it. I will ask for them and I will keep you posted.

 

What's really cool about this whole thing is that the end result will be at least three (Dave's, mine, and the Dragon Warrior's) XJ650Rs back on the road, and as ambitious as Eco is maybe even a fourth. Plus 'Kaz just got his near done, so we can count that one.

Don't EVEN start counting successfully recommissioned 550s...

Now what was that nonsense about a '77 Suzuki? 8O

 

Master Shifu,

I would not even think about that Suzuki. If I feel like working on another bike after this (maybe these) XJ's it would be something like a 1975 Xs650, they look really cool.

Once we are done we should get together and compare notes, and bikes... by the location it sounds like a mid point maybe somewhere in Ohio

 

It seems like the forum has gone into winter mode, either everybody is hibernating or the power went out in half of the country. Not much activity in the past few days.

I am just waiting on my parts bike to get here and the weather to get a bit better. Today we had freezing rain in the Carolinas with sleet and not above freezing so my yard is white and crunchy.

Have a good weekend y'all.

 

I take it you missed my "shout." Our power was out for 32 hours, overnite temps into single digits.

Then the pipes froze; propane torpedo heater to the rescue.

So yeah, it's been kind of "winter mode" lately.

In regard to the XS650 Yamahas: when they first came out, ('68) they "shared a shadow" with the 650 Triumph. Then around '78~'79 the bike got a new, larger, heavier frame and became a bit of a truck by comparison to the earlier models. The earlier, "slimline" XS650 makes a great Cafe racer if you can find one.

Wizard restored a '77 a while back:

 

single digits.............a heat wave! We the temps got ABOVE zero for the first time this week yesterday. Back down to zero overnight.

Now, I know that's a heatwave for our friends in northern Canada, and parts on north...............................

Hope you're ok in Mich. now...

Dave F

 

Ok, the weather is crazy. We didn't make it to 30 degrees yesterday, on Tuesday they are calling for 71.

 

If yawl want, I can ship some of our 70 degree weather to you. I think we already had our 2 days of winter down here. Done packed all my cold weather gear away. :lol:

 

70's Heck we would die up here right now with those temps. Can't go from -5 to 70 overnight! Yikes! But yeah on the same note, the snow and nice cold weather up here in upstate NY as Dave mentioned has but the dampers on work in my stable as well. I haven't been out to see the girl in close to a month. But that also is a result of our new dog chewing the Extenstion cord that supplies my shed with power for heat and Light. So with no light or heat, working on the bike is only the parts that come off and migrate to the basement

 

Check with the NWS. Your forecast for Syracuse is for 55 on Wednesday.

 

Sorry Fitz, that was meant to be sarcastic... Reading it now... definately didn't come off that way. I think it was about a week or so ago that it was in the low 60's here for a week. 'Tis Syracuse, we're used to it. If you also notice in the forcast, it is supposed to be mid 50's on wed. and a high of 31 and snow on thursday. As I'm sure you know in Mich. The lakes can be a real pain with the weather.

 

If we'd get any decent amount of snow so we could fire up the sleds, I'd feel a whole lot better about it. The base just started getting good, then we got that stupid warm weather with the rain and lost it all.
Can't ride bikes, can't ride sleds............................

Typical central NY weather..........if you don't like it, wait five minutes. If you don't like THAT, wait five more minutes........

Dave F

 

Eco.
Good news.
I do have a rebuildable 750 carb rack.
Details sent in a PM.

Ghost

 

Well, today I spend about 20 minutes just getting those bowls loose. One of them was working alrght, the other two were frozen big time with a bunch of gunk.

It took me a bit of time and some oil on a can, a bit of wiggling (no hammering yet) and got two of the off. The first one may need to sit on that oil for a bit to get it loose.

I doubt that all this gunk built up on two years when the bike was stored or the PO just had a very crappy running bike. He keeps saying that it ran fine but I guess there is a difference between running fine and "like new".

I also got a quote from Len and it is going to cost me about $400 to convert the 650 carbs into 750 (rebuilt kit plus main fuel, air and pilot jets, as well as jet needles.

This step may take a bit longer than I thought until I can get enough on my piggy bank to service and rebuild the carbs. Once I am done I will be able to eat off of them.

 

Slow an methodical......that's the way to do it!

Keep it up, you're doing fine

Dave Fox

 

My friend just texted me and my parts bike has been picked up in Ohio, it should be here by Monday. I can't wait to get it here and move forward with this project. I am also bidding on a set of carbs jetted for the 750, the cleaning and fixing should be a lot easier and quicker that serrin up the rack I have on hand. Nome the less this one is being serviced.

 

PO probably thought the bike ran fine, and had no idea of its true performance potential. I'd say about a third or more of the people who own/have owned an XJ have no idea of what the bike is really about because they never took it over 5000rpm.

My 550s are the first bikes I've ever owned that make peak horsepower AT redline; virtually every other motor I've had peaked out a couple grand down the clock and there's no sense in revving further. Not the XJ, the faster it revs the more power it makes, right to the top.

That's not just 2 years' worth of gunk.

 

I'm not Hi-jacking here, but it's truly amazing how people define 'runs great', compared to a well tuned XJ! Definitely second Fitz's statements! Good luck with the thread from the great 'white at the moment' north .

Mars

 

My first bike was the xj650 maxim, and even with all the other bikes I have or have had, or tinker with, or rebuild, etc....... I STILL say that the 650 has all the power and speed that I'd ever need.

Dave F

 

Howdy,

I worked for a little bit on the carbs, taking more pieces apart. What I am struggling with is to separate the carb bodies drom the railings. It seems like the screws are super tight, before trying to heat them up, is there anything else that I can try besides a lot of force with the screw drivers (which so far I have only been able to get 1/3 of the screws loose)?

 

Do you have a handheld impact wrench? That rack sounds like it was never apart. If you don't, get one, it will be your new best friend and is one of the best ways to free those old screws.

 

No, I do not have one.

Is there a difference between carb bodies? I am looking online and could get a single carb to replace the one with the damage tower to support the floats. I want to make sure that they are interchangeable if I have the rest of the parts that goes to the rack.