A new project, the abandoned xj650RJ

Find one. They're cheap. I'll add a pic later, I gotta go make dinner.

Yes, there is a difference in carb bodies by position, because of the throttle linkages and the drilling (or not) for the fuel distribution pipes.

 

Also find yourself a set of JIS screwdrivers. What look like Phillips head screws are not; you'll end up stripping the screw heads out. An impact driver will come with bits that fit JIS screws better than any Phillips ever will, so you can use that if you can't get a JIS screwdriver set.

 

body 1, bodies 2 and 3, body 4. those are the three kinds you need.

Yup, impact driver. LOVE mine, gonna get a GOOD one sometime, though!

Dave F

 

Santa has arrived!!!

I finally got my parts bike here. It looks it a whole better shape than the "original" bike. Both side panels, rear cowl (no full rear fender). The carbs look really clean on the outside and to my surprise PO butchered the airbox and added pods (they are not very visible because they are behind the side panel and the ends tucked into the butchered box.

The camera didn't like the light setting last night but I will take plenty of pictures later on.

 

Len carries JIS screwdrivers or you can find them on the innanet.

 

Ok so here are the pictures of the "donor" bike. Now I have plenty of parts to finish my first project... wait... do I have enough parts for two bikes?

This one looks better than the one I listed on my signature.

 

So I am trying to figure out what works and what does not on the parts bike. Something that obviously couldn't is the tachometer, it has no cable to the engine, luckily I have one from the box'o goodies I picked from the bay.

The airbox is trash since the PO decided to go with pods but didn't bother to take it out.



There seems to be some electrical problem that once again the smart PO decided to get rid of by bypassing the fuse and unplugging something, I need to figure out what it is.





I ordered a key for the ignition switch so can figure out what else works and what does not.

 

It looks like he's unplugged the safety circuit. Or part of it anyway.

Do you have a FACTORY book?

If not, PM me with your email address so I can get you 650 Seca-specific wiring and cable diagrams and pages from the dealer assembly manual that will help immensely.

 

Thanks a lot man, I do have a service manual for the xj650G I don't think it's the same since I can't find the wires that I have on my hand on that wiring diagram.

 

Eco,

I'll try to get a good look at mine in the next couple of days to see what's there.

As far as the fuse,that's pretty obvious.....the label tells you what the fuse would be for. The clips were probably falling apart, and instead of risking having the bike BREAK DOWN due to a faulty fuse clip, the previous owner decided it was better to risk having the bike BURN UP due to a faulty fuse clip. Lucky you found it first.

Dave F

 

I figured it out the disconnected plug is for this side stand I guess that the previous owner didn't care about driving away with it on or the sensors wasn't working

 

That was going to be my first guess, but I wanted to compare wires on your's to the wires on mine.

Dave F

 

MWAHAHAHAHA...

Out of the 3 of us, my 650 Seca is the only "unmolested" one (ok, lightly molested. Battered and abused, thankfully not "repairificated.")

I guess I should dig it out of the back of the garage and get some new batteries in the camera. Nothing beats a good "peeker" when you're doing a resto.

I need to get busy on it anyway.

 

I must have a real disorder... I ended up winning this on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-Yamaha-XJ7 ... true&rt=nc

So the 750 engine now will have it's own rack... please somebdy stop me from buying stuff.

What can I do with these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/xs650-speedomet ... true&rt=nc

BTW the cable that was shorted without fuse is red and yellow.

 

I don't recall that being the right color for the side stand, I'll have to look at mine and see if I can see where it goes.

Dave F

 

Good strike on the carbs! I did the same for my 550s; I have a good, rebuildable spare rack and a "parts" rack and didn't pay more than that for either. $30 ~ $50 for a whole "parts drawer" worth of carb parts is just good sense. (Ask Dave.)

The instruments? I'm pretty sure the "cans" are the same as on the 650 Secas. If you don't need all of them, I might need a speedo can. Not sure though; I might do later, white-faced Yamaha instruments as yet another way to get rid of the 85mph speedo.

Might be to the sidestand relay? I can't pick up the wire colors from the pic. But I can get to the right side of my bike easier than the left. Let's see if your results are conclusive or I can go look.

 

Sorry Dave, the read/yellow is the one that was connected together to get rid of the fuse.

The one unplugged on the side and shorted has a black, green/blue, and blue/yellow.

 

AH.....ok, scratch the txt msg's.....I'll go look for THIS combo now.....

be right back...

Dave F

 

Those wires got to the sidestand SWITCH.

 

Ok.....I just traced the wire and it goes right to the kickstand switch. So, apparently your's went bad and someone bypassed it.

Dave F

 

Thank you Len and Dave, it does help having people who know their wiring diagrams.

I will slowly but surely keep working on this project(s). It is quite a task to learn and do it as I go. I am sure after this project(s) I should be able to do it all over in 1/3 of the time (and hopefully half of the money. 8)

 

Ok,

So my carbs for the 750 engine should be here on Monday and the carbs on the parts bike seem a lot cleaner (at least on the outside) that the one that I had. Since carbs are on the way I may mount the 750 engine onto the frame and start getting putting things together.

I may just bag carbs I started taking apart and take a look at the one on the parts bike. I am curious if PO messed with the jets since the parts bike has pods. We'll find out as I have time to take it apart.

 

Today i got a key on the mail fromkey men. I sent them the code behind the ignition switch. I must be verylucky because the same key opened thehelmet lock and the gas tank.

I may need to use this switch since the other locks already match

 

gratz on the key eco!

 

So... I was wondering if the parts bike would show any signs of life, I filled up with oil, put in a freshly charged battery, turned the ignition switch and... nothing, not lights will come on, nothing, I checked the fuses left in the original box and they are all good, jumped the solenoid and there were sparks but nothing else, nada, zero.

Its time to bring the multimeter out and start testing stuff.

Do you all have a preference or is there a certain order to check things out? I will end up checking everything at some point but I wasn't sure if a certain order may help to troubleshoot things out.

 

I would deffinately suspect the starter solenoid if you are not geting even a click out of the starter. The no lights situation leans towards the fuse block being bad. Double check the fuses themselves. The old glass tube fuse can look good but not have continuity through it.

Those would be the first two things that I would check.

Ghost

 

Check the right hand controls, and pull the headlight bucket to see if any wires are bare or crossed.

Here's the big question........did you check to make sure that the engine is not seized?

Dave F

 

I did get the headlight off but I need to do a little more digging.

Today I got the 750 carbs that I found on ebay. After the experience with the broken post on the current rack I was a little nervous but here is what I found:



The don't look awfully dirty...


And all the posts are there, the floats are good and the are not frozen, the float needles are actually working



So 15 minutes later they looked like this:



I guess this is what the original ones were supposed to look like, a lot cleaner, no greenery growing so this is a lot better. I guess this one will only need a bit of cleaning and get new float needles and bowl gaskets.

On the parts bike I did turn the engine and it is not seized. I will remove the headlight and look at everything to make sure everything is connected, the next thing will be testing with the multimeter to figure out where current is not going.

 

You have the perfect attitude and admirable motivation.

Carry on, Dragon Warrior.

 

And check your ground on the parts bike-the lights should work with voltage, good fuses, and a good ground-unless they are unplugged in the HL bucket.

 

Thanks Fitz, the jets seemed a bit stuck so I am waiting on some kroil to get everything loose.

Hopefully this week / weekend will have time to get the 750 engine on the frame and start putting things back together. I will get the kits from Len to service the new carbs.

At time the project is overwhelming and I get excited about having enough parts to get two bikes running.

 

I do have two more solenoids to replace and test (trial/error) and see if that takes care of it.

I did check the glass fuses for continuity and all three are ok. I will do more diggin behind the head lamp and see what's there. On the original bike I found a roach living there

 

Good..........when you get REALLY familiar with where things belong in the bucket, let me know. Cuz I'll have to pick your brain about where some of MY wires go. Someone did some 're-wiring' in mine and now some of the wires don't have anywhere to go......and some others that don't belong.

Dave F

 

I will sure be doing some labeling in the bucket. I found the diagram on the owners manual that shows wires for the 650. I even found the wires form the kick stand (that is how I realized this diagram is the matching one).

 

Good score on those carbs. Those will clean up nicely!
Your gonna have that bike purring in no time.

Don't forget to get those enrichment wells in the bowls clean.

Ghost

 

Oh boy, I just want to say: When people give you advise LISTEN.

last week I ordered a couple of cans of kroil and today I stopped by Harbor Freight to pick up a manual impact screw driver.

I spent quite a few hours and sweat trying to break the carbs rack last week, today I sprayed kroil on each screw head and 20 minutes later a few swings with the hammer and here is the result.

When mechanics charge is for their experience and knowledge so people, take advantage of all the experience in the forum and learn. If it wasn't for the advise and experiences that I read about here I would still be fighting the rack and most likely messing up screws and would end up frustrated and throwing away the entire rack.

 

And that was the "donor" rack AKA the spare from now on.

The carbs that will go with the 750 engine are being serviced. Once again I sprayed everything that was coming off with kroil to make sure that it would be loose and that stuff works like magic.

Almost everything is off the bodies, next step get them super duper clean (scientific term for spotless).

 

Looking good! As you start putting things back, feel free to ask for reference pics if needed.

Dave Fox

 

Thanks Dave,

When I was taking things apart I thought that everything had different sizes and could only fit one way, boy was I wrong. When took everything apart I realized that there were a lot more parts than space on my internal hard drive (bad memory sometimes). I will need some pictures to figure out which jets go where.

I will be out of town for the next two weeks so I will not be putting this back together right away. The only thing that is still in place are the emulsion tubes, they seem very happy where they are and not wanting to come out.

 

All the more reason to make sure they are pulled out, and cleaned. Soak those emulsion tubes with kroil while you are away on your trip.

Ghost

 

A little more spraying kroil and they all came out. Here a picture of why they were stuck in there.



I am dipping them in carb cleaner, one carb at a time and they come out nice and shiny.


On a different note I replaced the solenoid and tried to get the parts bike started... nothing... no signs of life, none of the lights between the gauges will show signs of life.

I looked inside the bucket and found a few wires that are not connected or shorted on purpose to bypass something... more digging coming up.

You can see on the picture the blue, red(orange), and the two wires coming out of the green connector are disconnected.

The green connector has Blue/yellow and black/yellow wires, they are supposed to go to the clutch switch and the have been shorted so I guess there is no clutch switch at this time.

The sky blue wire is supposed to go to the Neutral switch, not sure if the neutral light will not come off at all if this one is not shorted.



By the time I am done I will know this bike better than I know myself

 

NNOOOO!!! DO NOT submerge carbs that still have the throttle shafts and butterflies assembled in them! You can wreck the throttle shaft seals then you WILL be pulling the butterflies and shafts (you may end up having to anyway.) But submerging them is a good way to be sure you'll have to.

 

Fitz, I learned the first time. I meant all the jets and emulsion tubes. That is all I am dipping in. No rubber parts are going in.

 

If you've already gone to the lengths of dis-assembly that you did, then go the rest of the way and dis-assemble each of the butterfly assemblies. Then dip EVERYTHING.......

EXCEPT FOR THE FOLLOWING PARTS:

1. the slides and diaphragms.....clean them by hand. A clean cotton cloth and some carb spray is all you need to do those.

2. the fuel line guide that has the black rubberized coating on it, which bolts to the cap of one of the carbs

3. pop the beanie-cap screens off of the fuel valves and carefully clean them by hand. If they are re-useable use them, if not, don't worry about them as long as you put an inline fuel filter in.

4. Clean the needles by hand so you don't dunk the plastic end.

5. Clean the needle cap (large white plastic part inside the slide with allen wrench hole) by hand. FWIW, the dip does not seem to bother those anyway............have dunked enough of them to know-----

It looks like a long list, but it's really only a few parts that don't get dipped.

Now, as far as the butterfly assemblies--

Here's what I do-- I take the butterfly assemblies apart one at a time, and then re-assemble them loosely while they are off the carb body. Then I dip the whole assembly and that way I don't lose any parts. Once the butterfly shaft is out of the body, pull the throttle shaft seals and throw them away. If you've gone that far, why save the seals when you'll just end up tearing right down to that point again when you realize the seals are shot..........................?

With those out of the way, dip everything so the clean up spotless. Then clean and buff each piece with a clean cotton cloth. You may find that you have to leave things in the dip for more than a few hours. I often have to leave pieces in there for overnight. BE AWARE, though, that if you leave brass in there for closer to 24hrs, you may pull them up and find they are a reddish color rather than brassy. That's ok, just buff them off a bit more and the reddish tinge will disappear. In order to avoid that, just remove them from the dip after about 10-12 hrs and check them. Clean them, and if things are still clogged THEN put them back in for another 8-10 hrs....pull, check, clean,etc..... and the brass color should remain.

Also, as far as the bowls are concerned, unless that gaskets are nice and OBVIOUSLY re-useable, just pull them off, and if they're stuck bad, just dunk the bowls....the gaskets will soften enough to scrape them off. If they're that bad you'll end up wanting to replace them anyway.

I do all that as a matter or course. When I'm done, the carbs are always real sharp-looking. The only thing I haven't done yet (and hope to try soon) is soda-blasting the bodies to REALLY shine them up.

Slow and easy, NOT setting deadlines, is the quickest and best way to do the job the way YOU want it done.

Dave Fox

I do all that now as a matter of course.

 

I have not broken the 750 rack, I was planning on only cleaning all the jets and all the brass parts.

With that only fresh bowl gaskets and float needles since everything looks good on this rack.

Does it make a difference having metal-tip needles vs the rubber tipped ones?

 

Yes.... it's much harder for the needle to get really stuck in the seat when the carbs are left to sit for long periods of time. I had one bike that came in that as far as I can tell, the bike hadn't run in 10 yrs.......the needles were so stuck, that I couldn't pull them out. I ended up having to push them out from the other side. the needles popped out, and the rubber tips were STILL stuck in the seats.

Dave F

 

Eco, +1 on what Dave said. Also on the note of Metal tip or rubber. Working in the Marine industry we see what Ethanol does to rubber. Over time it will eventually break down leading to more of the problem with sticking needles or needles that simply won't seal. Number one thing that I sell in my store is carb rebuilds for motors. Most of the time all they need is the needles. Knowing that when I was doing all this to mine, I splurged and spent the extra money for the metal tip ones that Len sells. Only thing that I dont like about them is that they do not have the catch on them to hold onto the tab on the floats. So when you are wet-setting your floats it can be really hard to get the needles in when you cannot invert the carbs. Other than that we shall see how they hold up. Good luck, I really enjoy keeping up with your progress. I can't wait till you have them running. Maybe then we can see you at one of Dave's Carb Clinics

 

Dave, I found out that the blue and red that are not connected are not meant to be. That is how the wiring diagram is showing. I am curious now if the diode in the parts bike is no good or there is something wrong with the ground wiring since the bike shows no signs of life at all when I turn on the ignition switch.

 

Take a volt meter and test:

red to the battery +, and the black wire to a frame bolt.
Current = good No current= bad ground

Do the same thing and check with the black to an engine bolt

work your way forward and back from those points.

Dave F

 

Thanks Dave,

I did test a couple of spots on the frame, solenoid, and engine and the ground is good. I found out that one of the fuses (main) was bad, it looks good but when tested with the ohm meter there was nothing. I will replace all fuses anyways since they are pretty inexpensive.

I am thinking about replacing the entire fuse box with the 4-way one here:

http://proweldperformanceparts.com/Fuse ... anels.html

Have you used any other type of fuse boxes to replace the stock one?