BaldWonder's 1982 XJ650J Maxim Bobber

Iunno... shit happens? Anywho, thanks!

And yup, cable is free moving. I'll check into the thicknesses (I always wanted a micrometer!) but as nice as they look I almost wonder if the most recent PO rebuilt the clutch already. Is that dot pattern on the rings normal, or is that an aftermarket tell-tale sign?

 

I haven't been in the 750 clutch yet, but I will have to soon because it slips ( the opposite of your problem). I have however been in the 550 clutch, and the steels in it are smooth with no dimples. my guess would be aftermarket. still they should be checked for warpage. place them on a flat piece of glass to check them.

FU

 

The factory steels have dimpling.

 

well there ya go. is that the 650 only? or all Yamaha engines?

FU

 

Thanks Moe!

 

I haven't taken apart a 550 clutch, so can only comment on the 650 and 750.

 

So, one of those in-the-shower moments: When I took the original clutch cable off, is it possible I let the throw-out arm snap back and launch the toothed spindle thing on the spring plate off the gear, and that the throw-out gear was never catching? Does the throw-out gear have a rotation limit, or would it spin freely in that situation? Or is it not even possible?

Not that I'm going to take care of it today. I got a wedding to go to, hence the personal hygiene referenced above.

 

The two mesh completely when the clutch cover is put on. The only way for them to come apart is to remove the cover.

 

Dang. So much for that theory. I'm starting to worry there's something amiss on the transmission side. It just doesn't make sense that it would work before the cable replacement and not directly after.

 

When you pulled the clutch plates could you turn the inner drive independently of the clutch basket?

With everything buttoned up will the clutch disengage if you put an adjustable wrench on the throwout arm an turn it?

For the sake of thoroughness: how are you determining that the clutch will not disengage? I think we covered that already, but it's been a while.

 

Yes, no, and when I had it running in neutral, I attempted to disengage the clutch via the hand lever so I could put it in first. Pulling the lever was difficult and did not feel like it was doing anything, and kicking it into first at that point resulted in a violent jump and a stall of the engine. With the engine off, rolling the bike in neutral is expectedly far easier than when putting it in first and rolling it, which mind you is still possible, leading me to believe the gears and engine and final drive are all connected properly. Leaving just the clutch.

 

Humor me for a bit. Hook the cable up and adjust it. Get on the bike and pretend that you stalled in traffic; attempt to start the bike in first gear, clutch disengaged, kickstand up, hand holding the front brake. See what happens. My thought is that you simply had plates that were stuck from lack of use.

 

If I didn't already have it cracked open, oil drained, and gasket torn apart, I would. I'm disinclined to think it was stuck plates, as they came apart in my hands rather easily. Nothing about the disassembly seemed stuck, in fact. Anyway, off to a wedding I go. Seeya!

 

the dots are lined up ?

 

Maybe this will help some of the Wizards get you going:

Were the dots on the pressure plate and hub aligned when you took it apart?

9-22-14 you wrote in BigFitz clutch rebuild thread:
"So what if you can't get the clutch to engage at all? I haven't opened it up yet, but last time I ran the bike, I noticed a little bit of creep with the clutch engaged. Now when I try to go into first, it jumps forward and stalls as if I didn't have the clutch engaged at all. Did I manage to fuse the friction plate or something?"

Not sure if you ever got this sorted, but this was before the cable change so I was wondering if this was a bit of a precursor to the failure and might add a clue.

3-17-15 you wrote in your this thread http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index...s-little-resistance-xj550k.25394/#post-439816:
"Thanks Gary. I definitely noticed the mark on the clutch case, but I didn't notice a mark on the lever to line it up with. I may just be blind. I'll try again tomorrow, but I'm thinking it's going to be time to crack it open and see what's going on inside. Wish me luck."

This is where with the new cable you could not even pull the clutch in. Not sure if you ever found the alignment mark, so here is a pic of a 750.

 

dots on the basket and pressure plate

 

How hard was it to wire up that tach/speedo? I have an 82 xj750 with the hideous huge squared guage cluster im trying to get rid of. I just dont know what works. Yours looks good

 

well I have two other 550 engines and a 650 and a spare 750 engine. I may just have to open them up one of these days to see what they have. even still there's no guarantee that they are oem.

FU

 

I honestly did not pay attention to it when I took it apart.
:::extends hand out, ready to be hit with a ruler:::
At best we have the pictures on page 5 to judge by. I'll check it out more tonight.

Actually, the change was immediately after the cable swap. The creep could be a clue, but I'm also thinking it may have been the result of the fraying cable letting up some slack. It was bad - there were only three strands holding it together.

Long story short: I started the swap then, ran into trouble and was pretty sure solving it would take up a lot of time and money, and I had just quit my job to go back to school, and then it got cold and I didn't want to open the bike up knowing it would stay open for a long cold winter. My garage is not heated, and polar vortices are a bitch. I'm still in school now, but I'm also working at a decent internship. Now that it's warmer, I'm getting back into figuring this out.

No, I didn't - THANK YOU! I never would have thought to look under the clip!

In retrospect, it wasn't that bad at all. At the time though, I spent a LOT of time staring at wiring diagrams for the original set up and comparing it to the wiring for the speedo. I kept trying to connect just one light by itself to verify the unit worked at all, thinking I only needed power to that one light and a ground. The "aha" moment was when I realized that the new unit needed overall power fed to it as well as the individual light and ground wire. After that it was just a matter of labeling wires, yanking the supplied wires out and snapping the factory wires in to the plastic couplers/harness/clips instead.

 

Having now re-re-re-read over BigFitz's Clutches 101 - Part 1, I'm left wondering if 650s are suppose to have clutch boss springs. I found nothing like that in mine.

 

they all have a clutch boss spring. here is the parts fish for your bike's clutch...

http://www.tacomamotorsports.com/fi...Motorcycles&make=Yamaha&year=1982&fveh=177023

FU

 

Having now exhaustively gone through Len's part catalog on the page for XJ650 clutches, it would seem that the 650's do not have a boss spring. Did I read that wrong? Also, I leaning toward biting the bullet and just rebuilding the clutch since I have it open now anyway. I know the friction plates should get replaced based on age alone. Would you all say its safe for me to reuse the steel plates since they look like they're doing fine? It'd be nice to shave $50 off the order if I can.

 

Are you sure? Len's catalog doesn't mention one, and there doesn't look to be one listed or pictured on the fiche.

 

NEVERMIND! I see it on the fiche now. It's behind the boss plate (#9), which I haven't taken off/apart (yet? Dun dun dun!).

Likewise, I see it in Len's catalog now, too. It's in the "Inner Clutch Hub" section that I skimmed over as I'm hoping to leave the boss plate and center hub alone, per BigFitz's recommendation to leave it alone unless it looks bad.

I thought I didn't see it because I was expecting it to be sandwiched in the midst of all the friction/steel plates.

 

So just to recap: if my steel plates and bolts appear to be ok, do they need to be replaced due to age? I.e.; what can I reasonably get away with?
I'm already planning on replacing the friction plates, springs, and gasket (both the rubber circle and the paper clutch case gasket).

 

As long as the steel plates aren't blue, burnt, or worn you can reuse them. Bolts... look for corrosion and rust, if its clean keep, rust you toss.

I would definitely do the springs and and the bearing/washer on the push/pull rod.

side question: when she was running how did she run with the pods?

 

Sounds like keepers on my end, then. Thanks. So the bearing and the washer, or were you referring to just the washer-like bearing?

She ran/runs well, very well. I used the sigma6 kit on eBay, so they had provided all the calculations and settings based on my modifications to the intake and exhaust. In retrospect I wish I had cleaned the carbs first just to see how well she would run without modifications, but I don't regret the performance I'm getting now. When I really lay into it from a dead stop, it feels like the bike wants to get away from me. Definitely gives you incentive to build up some forearm strength. At some point I want to add a backrest/buttcatcher to the seat. In my case, I've lucked out (from what I hear on here) in that all I've sacrificed was some MPG. I'm about even with my Honda Civic, now.

 

Aaaaa, there's a bearing in there, part #4. You do have one, i hope.

 

Both the bearing and the washer. If you order from Chacal the order #'s are below for the 82 xj650 maxim

HCP3199 OEM clutch pressure plate push rod BEARING.
$ 12.95

HCP3200 OEM clutch pressure plate push rod SHIM WASHER.
$ 4.25



If i remember correctly I think my carb has been jetted already. When i rebuilt the carbs I think i saw the main fuel jet at 112. I need to look at everything again to confirm. Btw did you do the boot trick? where i think you place the boot inside the air pod... i might be wrong. nervous about ripping out the airbox.

 

Don't worry, I have both. I was just seeing if he recommended changing both or just one of the two.

There's a boot trick? No, the pods I bought just happened to come with shorty boots of their own. Sounds like something my wife would wear. Don't be scared, just be gentle. Most things you can do can be undone. Unless it involves drilling holes. There's no going back on that.

 

How hard was it to wire up that tach/speedo? I have an 82 xj750 with the hideous huge squared guage cluster im trying to get rid of. I just dont know what works. Yours looks good

 

[QUOTE="
There's a boot trick? No, the pods I bought just happened to come with shorty boots of their own. Sounds like something my wife would wear. Don't be scared, just be gentle. Most things you can do can be undone. Unless it involves drilling holes. There's no going back on that." [/QUOTE]

Rumor and i say rumor cause i dont believe it has been 100% confirmed. That if you use the intake boots as a velocity stack between the carb and the pod it will help control the turbulent air flow. I might be miss quoting the exact reason, but its been talked about here and on other sites. Google wompy5000 and velocity stack.

 

I believe the rumor is correct, but I don't have a lot of room between the end of the carb and the tubes of the frame. My pods are a little on the tall side.

 

I swapped the stock airbox to carb boot into the pod filters. I have nothing to compare it to, but there's been no signs of any sort of odd airflow.

 

Quick update: Last night I placed a hefty order with Len for some clutch rebuilding supplies. Hopefully this at least improves things if not completely fixes them. The weather is cooperating by being cold, dreary, and wet for the next few days.

 

Ok cool, because I really like your gauge. Where did you get it?? Btw, that seat is sick. Final Fantasy ftw

 

Think I can get it to work on my 750?

 

Oops nevermind I didnt realize you already said what it was

 

No problem, and yeah, it'll probably work on a 750. It's just a matter of connecting up the right wires. I think I got mine on Amazon, but last time I looked it up for someone it wasn't available from them anymore.

 

what type of resistor did you use to make the digital Tach work? and did you have to use one on any other lines? i am using a a KOSO speed/tach combo and im concerned it might not work. Any advice you can give on what you went through to get yours working would be appreciated.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DTE94SI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I believe it was a 100 ohm resistor - it came supplied with the speedo I bought. It was only needed if you were "detecting" the rpms by wrapping wire around one of the ignition spark lines. I could have just as easily disconnected the tach line and used that, but I flipped a mental coin and wrapping the line with wire won.

 

Update on the bike: I got Len's package of clutch rebuilding goodness, drenched all the parts in oil for several hours as stated in BigFitz's how-to, and then started assembling. I hand tightened the pressure plate bolts first, then gave each bolt 10 turns with the ratchet each, in a star pattern, until they were as far as I could go without torquing them. Then I torqued each to 7.2 ft/lbs (actually, I did 86 inch/lbs, then turned just a touch more past the click to get the remaining .4). Then I closed everything up, torquing the case bolts to the same specs as the spring bolts. I added anti-seize compound to the case bolts, but not the stuff inside the case since that's already covered in oil.

Then I twisted the throwout spindle clockwise until it stopped. I attached the arm with the notch aligned to the mark on the case cover. I used vise grips to turn the throwout arm to the point where I could hook the cable into place, then I made sure I had all the fine adjustments in the right place for the cable. No slack, but it's not engaging the throwout either.

Then I dumped oil into the case (no leaks!) and fired it up! Then I fired a few more times. This was the first firing of the year, so there was a lot of stabil and fogging oil to get through. Eventually she cleared her throat and started to purr. Then, the best part of all, I pulled the clutch lever and kicked it into first. The engine was still running! I let the lever out a little and she started to move forward. I allowed myself a smile, and as I did an unexpected giggle came out with it.

I let her idle to warm up some more while I threw my helmet and jacket on, and we went to go get some fresh gas. She was good as new, or at least as good as I've ever known her!

So I don't know if it was the plates being old or my clutch cable being out of whack or the oil being old and adding to it all, but we're good now.

And tomorrow's forecast? Thunderstorms.

 

Just ride between the storms. That's how we do it on the plains.

 

How did you mount the magnets on the wheel and place the Bracket for the new speedo cable. Can you take a pic and show me?

 

Sorry @sybe, I only just noticed your question. I'll see if I can't get a picture up for you tonight.

 

This weekend I got back to working on the 750 tank that I'm fixing up for my bike. You don't want to know how long it took to get it to this point.




There was a lot of body-fill to get off, and I have some dents to pull. And there was a rust pinhole in the midst of that body-fill crater on the side. I'll be brazing that.

 

Like so...


The angled piece of metal was recycled from the seat that I hacked apart.
I drilled a hole into the rotor so that I could thread it and bolt the magnet on (the magnet was a bolt itself), but I managed to screw that up (get it!?) so I had to JB Weld it into place. That's the little gray mound you see on one of the rotor spoke-arms. The magnet is pretty strong and probably would hold on by itself. The JB was just extra insurance.

Now note the alignment of the sensor. The sensor is like a finish line that the magnet has to cross. Not a plank it has to walk. I hope that makes sense. Took me a few tries to suss out that that was what it needed to be. Engrish is fun to read.

 

OMG. I hope that you don't have trouble with that reed switch (that is what the sensor is). Some of the recycling machinery I used to work on used that exact switch as a safety lockout on the doors. The switch iteslf is great, but the housings tend to break at the bolt holes. IF you do have any trouble with it let me know and I will help find you a more durable replacement.

 

So far so good. It's logged about 1000 miles so far, but just in assembling it, I know what you mean. Notice only one tab hole. The first one broke while I was fabing it up. But that's awesome, Moe, thanks. I'll definitely hit you up when I rebuild the forks, as I'm sure it might not survive being messed with much more.